John Deere Hy-gard Tractor oil for our manual trans..

[forcefed86]

Anyone use JD’s Hy-gard in there manual trans? I buy it in the 5 gallon container. Been using it on the race car (power-glide auto trans) for a long time and I can tell you this is just as good (if not better) as Amsoil for a 1/2 of the price. Looks to meet the g-4 specs. Just wondering if anyone has tried it? I was thinking this may be a cheap alternative to redline as well.

I believe I paid $52 for 5 gallons.

Anyway here are the specs.


Oil and Lubricants : Hydraulic Oil

 

[jrohner]

I have similar stuff in my 1G talon AWD auto. I'd just stick with the redline for a manual.

 

[ramsack]

i wouldn't use it in a manual trans, it is hydraulic oil, not gear oil.

 

[Morphius]

i wouldn't use it in a manual trans, it is hydraulic oil, not gear oil.

Your average tractor uses "hydraulic" oil in the gearbox/rear end in addition to the hydraulics for attachments like loaders. So, it is used as gear oil. I don't think I'd use it in an automatic given the viscosity.

Interesting idea though.

 

[ramsack]

atf is hydraulic oil with some lube for the gears. lots of 4x4 cars use atf in the transfer cases. there are honda gearboxes and i think some chevy cavalier gearboxes that take atf as well, but they were designed for this. putting atf/hydraulic oil from a tractor in a gearbox that was made for heavy gear oil is not going to be good.

 

[Morphius]

putting atf/hydraulic oil from a tractor in a gearbox that was made for heavy gear oil is not going to be good.

You missed my point. It's used for gearboxs on tractors from 30hp to 600hp. If that isn't severe duty, I'm not sure what is.

 

[ramsack]

You missed my point. It's used for gearboxs on tractors from 30hp to 600hp. If that isn't severe duty, I'm not sure what is.

you think what you want then, and try it. i'm not talking about the duty. tractors see heavier use than any car. those gearboxes have hydraulic components in them, and this lube is what's made for those devices. they spin slower than cars and most the heat that the oil has to deal with comes from hydraulic use, not gears meshing. put that stuff in a car trans where everything spins a few to many times faster and who knows how the fluid will break down. why not just stick with what is recommended for our cars? it's not like you gotta changed gear oil ever 3,000 miles, and if you do, you should be spending it on stuff that is meant for racing, not for tractors.

 

[LiquidX]

you think what you want then, and try it. i'm not talking about the duty. tractors see heavier use than any car. those gearboxes have hydraulic components in them, and this lube is what's made for those devices. they spin slower than cars and most the heat that the oil has to deal with comes from hydraulic use, not gears meshing. put that stuff in a car trans where everything spins a few to many times faster and who knows how the fluid will break down. why not just stick with what is recommended for our cars? it's not like you gotta changed gear oil ever 3,000 miles, and if you do, you should be spending it on stuff that is meant for racing, not for tractors.

^Said it all.

Don't try and skimp out and be cheap about something especially on a product not even designed for the same platform or even mentioned for use in our cars. Get the proper oil for your car.

 

[forcefed86]

Seems to me if it meets GL4 spec, it is the right fluid for our cars and given the more durable nature of this fluid compared to most other listed one could assume it would be a superior fluid. The reason it costs less is mainly because it doesn't use the expensive dye's found in auto/manual trans fluids.

Then again, I'm not saying anyone should use it. But, if it meets the spec called out in the manual how is it "skimping" and or "not the proper fluid".

Again not saying anyone is right or wrong, just discussing the matter.


And just FYI Low Viscosity Hy Gard is what is to be used in auto trans. It is still a hydraulic fluid but is only a 33 viscosity where the normal Hy Gard is 59 viscosity. I'd be using the 59v rating fluid for the manual.

It does look a "thinner" than the mt-90 though. It's funny on the Redlien sight it says "MTL & MT-90 are not for use in differentials with hypoid gears" Yet the manual calls out for hypoid gear oil. Hmmmm.

Hygard:
Viscosity @ 40°C................... 59 cSt
Viscosity @ 100°C................. 9.4 cSt
Viscosity index.................. 140
Density............................. 0.89 g/cm3
Pour point......................... -40°C
Flash point......................... 227°C


Mt-90 (redline):
API Service Class GL 4
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 15.6
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 90
Viscosity Index 185
Pour Point, °C -45
Pour Point, °F -49
Flash Point, °C 240
Flash Point, °F 465
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C, Poise 320

 

[ramsack]

you could technically have an oil that is like water but meets gl-4 specs, but put that in a dsm trans and it would not last long. the gl spec is all about the additives, not the oil itself. gl-4 spec is "light to heavy" duty. the manual calls specs for viscosity and the api specification, so this oil may meet the api spec, but it doesn't mean it's going to match the viscosity design through temperature.

 

[forcefed86]

you could technically have an oil that is like water but meets gl-4 specs, but put that in a dsm trans and it would not last long. the gl spec is all about the additives, not the oil itself. gl-4 spec is "light to heavy" duty. the manual calls specs for viscosity and the api specification, so this oil may meet the api spec, but it doesn't mean it's going to match the viscosity design through temperature.

And how do you know that Hy-gard does not do exactly that? I'd like to see something stating the viscosity ratings for what ever oil is considered "factory suggested".


According to the API websiget. GL-4 fluids are intended for axles with spiral bevel and hypoid gears operating under moderate to severe conditions of speeds and loads. They are also suitable for sychronized manual transmissions. When MT gear oils are NOT recommended

GL-5 is indicated for high-speed/shock loads and low-speed/high-torque conditions. GL-5 also has multi-purpose or mild EP (extreme) properties too. GL-5 is often seen with the MT designation too.
MT indicates lubricants intended for NON-sychronized manual transmissions. MT indicates the additional additives necessary to protect against thermal degradation, component wear and oil-seal deterioration which are not requirements by GL-4 or GL-5 approval.

This is why I don't think running redline MT-90 may not be the way to go.

 

[ramsack]

And how do you know that Hy-gard does not do exactly that? I'd like to see something stating the viscosity ratings for what ever oil is considered "factory suggested".

This is why I don't think running redline MT-90 is the way to go.

API GL-4 ASE 75W-90 or 75W-85W.

API specs are about wear-prevention additives. as i said before you could have something that is like water but still meet these specs, and it will still ruin your trans.

I don't run anything but generic fluid (coastal). putting a different gear oil in to mask a problem is dumb.

Whoever wants to try this oil, go ahead, just don't blame anyone for anything bad happening to your trans when it does. I tried GM synchromesh in my mr-2 and every gear grinded worse, and eventually i blew out a shift fork, and i never shifted hard.

EDIT: also, where is everyone getting that this is gl-4 fluid from? there is one application that calls for gl-4 that this can be subbed for. the rest are hydrostatic applications.

 

[dsm-onster]

There's more to it than viscosity. I believe viscosity isn't nessesarily indicative of 'cohesion', how well the fluid 'sticks' to the gears. The fluid could be thick enough throughout the temperature range. But how well will it coat and cool. Also different fluids of course have different heat absorbtion properties, even if the viscosity is the same through the heat range.

Just a thought. Not nulling someones attempt to try a more affordable option for the benefit of our community. I just think more research needs to be done; then begin experimentation. A good hypothesis begins with a very FULL understanding of the properties of the articles to be tested.

 

[ramsack]

for the record i'm just arguing against this so that someone doesn't just go try it and ruin their shit.

 

[Morphius]

For that matter, please point out where in this material that it says GL-4?

http://www.pennzoil.com/documents/Synchromesh Manual Trans Fluid.pdf

Pennzoil - Not just oil, Pennzoil


Or how about "weight" of oil? Yet everyone uses it. I've 65K on my TRE trans running it with no issues.

 

[Morphius]

EDIT: also, where is everyone getting that this is gl-4 fluid from? there is one application that calls for gl-4 that this can be subbed for. the rest are hydrostatic applications.

Does that not make it GL-4 compliant?

 

[ramsack]

synchromesh fluid is not gl-4.

if a fluid does not say it is gl-4 compliant, then it isn't! is this hard to understand?

you're not the only one who reads these forums, and it would suck if someone went and tried this stuff or synchromesh and ruined their trans.

how cheap does one need a gear oil change to be? you do it every 30k and it only takes a little over a gallon to do trans, xfer case, and rear.

 

[standard235]

MT 90 in trans and heavy shockproof in xfer case and rear end ftw

 

[LiquidX]

MT 90 in trans and heavy shockproof in xfer case and rear end ftw

x2

It's a proven combo

 

[forcefed86]

synchromesh fluid is not gl-4.

if a fluid does not say it is gl-4 compliant, then it isn't! is this hard to understand?

you're not the only one who reads these forums, and it would suck if someone went and tried this stuff or synchromesh and ruined their trans.

how cheap does one need a gear oil change to be? you do it every 30k and it only takes a little over a gallon to do trans, xfer case, and rear.

It's not really a cost issue. That was just an added bonus. I've got tons of this stuff laying around and it worked miracles literally for my auto. Just wondering if it would be as good as or better than what most are using. Also it's a pain to find straight GL-4 fluid at local auto parts stores etc (or at least by me it is) The parts computers at autozone, advanced auto, and orileys all claim gl-4 fluid or higher for the manual trans case. None of the bastards sell g4 by me. Autozone did carry royal purple ($24 a qt). Royal purple claims g4 or g5. This is the closest thing I can find locally. (without going to dealer)



I never suggested anyone should use it. I was trying to see if it had already been done. It's common practice now on auto's. Difference being lots of the manual trans out there use auto ATF type fluid. I think Hy-gard would work just fine in this situation. I think because of the way the DSM gears are cut and mated to each other this may not be a good choice from what I've read so far. I don't plan on trying it unless I read otherwise.

 

[ramsack]

then try it on a spare trans as an experiment. if it worked in your automatic then it's for sure not going to work in a manual dsm trans. they have problems staying together as is with proper fluid.

 

[Morphius]

synchromesh fluid is not gl-4.

if a fluid does not say it is gl-4 compliant, then it isn't! is this hard to understand?

you're not the only one who reads these forums, and it would suck if someone went and tried this stuff or synchromesh and ruined their trans.

how cheap does one need a gear oil change to be? you do it every 30k and it only takes a little over a gallon to do trans, xfer case, and rear.

It used to say Gl-4. Now it does not. Everything isn't as clear as you claim it to be.

I'll go out on a limb and say there is an easy 10-20 million miles put on DSM transmissions using syncromesh with zero issues. I myself have put over 500K on syncromesh. I put 60K on a trans with it in 2007 alone.

Regarding the Hy-gard, the obvious is there is an application that calls for GL-4. As it says, it meets that requirement, for that application. So, it is Gl-4 compliant.

 

[forcefed86]

Also just read the reason the GL-5 oils are not recommended is because they contain high concentrations of sulfur-based EP/AW additives. These additives don't get along with yellow metals.

Most knew this…

But according to what I just read the new g4-g5 combo/compatible gear oils no longer contain sulfur based additives and will not harm “yellow metals”.

 

[ramsack]

evolutionm.net - View Single Post - Rating not found for Pennzoil and GM Synchromesh Tranny Fluid

the pdf is a dead link now, though. pennzoil synchromesh is a gearbox oil made for manual transmissions. that zetor company may have changed their specs and allowed that particular oil in that application...it doesn't mean this stuff is gl-4. good luck finding gl-4 these days, it's difficult to walk into a parts store and find it.