ECMlink Ingersoll Rand bcs install issues

[SasaniFab]

I have searched and followed the instructions archived on the site but I'm still having trouble getting the bcs to function. I noticed that the direction of the wires does not matter when installing the bcs, I purchased the bcs and pigtail from ecmlink. I am already running speed density so I don't have to change anything in the software short of enabling boost control correct? I am getting 12v at the plug. The correct plug is a red and orange wire correct? The only other plug similar is two small black wires but I believe that is from the overflow? I followed the vaccum diagram for the internal setup. Any help would be appreciated

 

[kmetiuk]

I have the IR BCS setup in my car and confirmed working.

Need more info....when you say function do you mean that it fails to work electronically or it fails mechanically?

I am not sure what the wire colors are as its late and I'm to lazy to go look...but your new IR BCS is wired directly into where the old wastegate solenoid was. I have a 2G so I dunno if the 1G's had a stock wastegate solenoid on them or not.

Past those questions that need answering:
- the wires on the IR BCS are both black and do not matter which way they are hooked up....its a magnet inside so it really doesn't matter which way the current flows
- the internal setup on ECMlink's site is how I hooked mine up too. It's important that you connect the lower port on the side with 2 PORTS to the boost source....the single port side MUST connect to the wastegate
- in DSMLink all you need to do is turn on "enable boost control"
- I am assuming that you have an aftermarket boost sensor hooked up to the old MDP wires (or whatever)...I did see that you are running speed density so this is a moot point.
- Also make sure you have "enable error correction" turned off (at first)
- Set the entire lower table to like 50% duty or something and go for a pull to see if you indeed have control. You should see the boost start to rise as you up the base duty cycle table (the lower table). On my 14B I don't think I saw any increase in boost until 60-65% duty. I had to set it to 70% in 3rd gear to get it to 22 PSI....in 1st gear I was lik 80-90% to get the boost upto 18 PSI....but first gear just doesnt have enough time to spool it quick enough so only do 3rd gear pulls (or higher gears) or you wont be able to see any changes in boost.

Not sure if it matters, but there are 2 more parameters at the bottom that say:
"Lock at 0% below XXX PSI"
"And Then Lock at 100% Below XXX PSI"

I set mine too:
"Lock at 0% below -5 PSI"
"And Then Lock at 100% Below 16 PSI"

These tell the ECU to lock the wastegate at 100% duty (fully closed) if the boost is below 16 PSI....the first value just tells it to do nothing if you are not in boost.

 

[SasaniFab]

Ok so the car is a 1g, and I have the bcs connected with a new pigtail from ecmlink. The fp green I'm running has a internal wastegate that I have set at 15 psi. I want to run 25 psi in 3rd gear. Will I be able to do this with this bcs or do I not understand the point of the bcs. I have a hallman boost controller set to max and I'm getting 20 psi or so. I was hoping I could use this as a boost controller of sorts, I'm going to have to go external if this doesn't work to increase boost further I'm assuming

 

[SOADweskey]

If everything works then the ecmlink controlled boost solenoid should have no problem getting to 25psi from a green. But if you can't boost over 20 psi with a manual boost controller I think you have something else wrong. Either your turbine Housing is cracked around the wastegate flapper and preventing it from sealing or your turbo may be damaged and incapable of building boost.

 

[kmetiuk]

The IR BCS controlled via link will hold more than enough boost. I was able to get 24 psi out of my 14B no problem at all. I was set to 85% duty, but it did it...the 14B hated it but it did it. The IR BCS will give you a much better setup in the end by leaps and bounds. Boost by gear is so awesome.


Did a quick google search....I do believe the 1G has a stock wastegate solenoid though its hard to find a pic of where it is in the engine bay. The pinout for the 1G shows a its on pin 105 and it is orange....it should be the same color in the engine bay though I cannot confirm this as I have a 2G.

That being said, like @SOADweskey said, if your hallman boost controller is set to max and you are only getting 20psi then you have a very different problem.

The hallman boost controller and the IR BCS both control boost the same way....hallman does it mechanically and the IR BCS does it electronically. Going to an external will not solve your underlying problem...it will give you more boost if you have a stiffer spring, BUT you have a different issue.

How boost is controlled:
There are 1 surfaces inside of an internal wastegate that "see" pressure from the turbo.
1. The diaphragm inside the WG actuator sees pressure from your intake via boost
2. The exhaust flapper is forced close by a spring (in your case a 15psi). The flapper sees pressure from the exhaust system pre-turbine...it is much smaller area wise than the diaphragm so it's basically controlled via boost pressure only

The flapper is connected to the diaphragm via a rod and is held shut by the force exerted by the 15 psi spring. When the boost pressure rises past 15 psi it forces the spring down by applying pressure to the diaphragm. Hence we have boost controlled by the spring. Swap the spring we get more/less boost.

Hallman:
Now if we add in a hallman by tee-ing into the boost line going to the WG we can bleed off some pressure. It does this in a similar way to how the WG works. There is a little ball (or valve) that slides back and forth in a cylinder...it is held down by a spring. The "adjuster" on the top of the hallman simply allows you to preload the spring more which in turn holds down the valve. More turns or more preload means more pressure on the valve meaning more boost will be required to push the little ball open. Less preload means less pressure to open the valve. Basically, if we have 25 psi of boost in the intake system and the hallman is bleeding off 10 psi the WG actuator will only "see" 15 PSI of boost...in which case it will start to open.

IR BCS
The IR BCS is basically a "tee" and an electronic hallman all in one...this is why the IR BCS has 3 ports just like a tee. You replace the tee in the previous setup with the IR BCS. Instead of preloading a spring there is a little solenoid (electronically controlled valve) inside. The valve is always held shut by a spring, the spring is much stronger than in the hallman so no matter what boost level you are at it is "closed". The difference here is that when the IR BCS is closed it is actually keeping all the boost going to the WG....which then starts to open when the 15 psi spring "sees" 15 psi of boost pressure on the diaphragm.

Instead of preloading a spring we instead tell the IR BCS to open a certain amount via DSMLink. So if we set all the base duty cycle tables to 50% we are telling the IR BCS to open 50% of the time (i'll get into duty next). When the IR BCS is told to open, DSMLink sends power to it which in turn sends current around the electromagnet inside which applys a magnetic force to the IR BCS valve which over comes the spring causing it to open. When it opens it does what the hallman does....it bleeds off the boost pressure. For example if we set the duty to bleed off 10 psi of pressure then at 25 psi boost the 15 psi spring in the WG and the IR BCS together will hold in the 25 psi of boost. (15 spring + 10 IR BCS = 25 psi of boost)

The duty cycle in DSMLink works like this:
- Every 0.06 seconds (17 hz) Link will tell the IR BCS how long to be open or closed during that 0.06 sec
- If we set it to 0% duty it will remain closed for 0.00 sec during a period of 0.06 sec
- If we set it to 50% duty it will first remain open for 0.03 sec and then closed for 0.03 sec during a period of 0.06 sec
- If we set it to 100% duty it will remain open for 0.06 sec during a period of 0.06 sec
- It repeats this over and over and over every 0.06 sec...it is very very fast.

Remember when it is open it is bleeding off air pressure from your wastegate...the more pressure we bleed off the more that 15 psi spring is applying force to the flapper holding it closed.

Wrapping up: the hallman and the IR BCS both control boost by bleeding off some intake boost pressure from the wastegate allowing the 15 psi spring to keep the WG closed. Bleed off more air and you get more boost from that WG.

The advantage to using a boost controller is that you can change the pressure whenever you want. Using a spring you are always limited to that spring.

The advantage to using an electronically controlled system is that you can tailor your boost curve by RPM (and gear in Link). If you find you start surging in 3rd gear b/c your new 25 psi sping is keeping the WG closed to early in your RPM range...you simply change your table a bit. Say you find that 25 psi is to much boost in 1 st gear and your spinning your wheels...simply change your table a bit. It really is the only way to go.



Now for the bad news
Since your hallman was not able to hold anymore boost than 20 psi you have a completely different problem. Either you have a boost leak or an exhaust leak.

Boost leak means that you are unable to build past 20 psi b/c at that pressure something is opening up and leaking. I had this happen on a coupler once....it would only open up at 18 psi and then would leak like fcuking crazy causing my boost to drop to 14 psi until it closed/sealed up again at which point it would start building up to 18 psi. It could also just be a slow leak through the whole range too. Had this happen on some of my vaccum lines going to my FPR...would cause enough of a leak that I simply couldn't get over 21 psi(funny it didn't mess with the AFR's...maybe link was compensating i dunno)

Either way you need to do a boost leak test to confirm your intake system is sealed up at any pressure. If you want 25 psi of boost then test to 30 psi. I personally do a boost leak test every few weeks as I drive the shiiit outta my car and I find that there are 2 couplers that always seem to loosen up after a few thousand KM's.

An exhaust leak could also cause this b/c if you are bleeding off exhaust pressure pre-turbine then there simply is not enough exhaust pressure left to drive the turbo. There are several ways to do this but the consensus seems to be run seafoam through your motor and you'll see smoke coming out of the leaks. I have never used seafoam so i can't vouch for it. That being said I am going to try it as my new holset is gonna need all the exhuast pressure it can get...she's a huge biitch.



***If I were to speculate based on your hallman not holding boost past 20 psi on max (which means your bleeding off almost all the intake boost pressure) I would say you have a boost leak.

Do a boost leak test first and try the hallman again as you know that the hallman was working. Once the hallman gets the boost past 20 psi, switch out for the IR BCS and confirm its working. Once working have fun...it really is awesome playing with those tables and getting the EXACT boost curve you want in whatever gear.

 

[SasaniFab]

what is the max of the fp green internal wastegate? I have the waste gate rod adjusted all the way out. Could that be an issue? I thought the hallman gave 5psi max. I'm holding 20-21 psi to redline it doesn't move. When I remove the hallman I get 16 psi to redline

 

[kmetiuk]

I dunno what the max is....the website says 57lb/min and is good for 540hp so I'd guess it will make a shiiit ton more than my 14B...which spiked at 24 psi and tapered to 20 psi at redline.

I dunno what the hallman max is....pretty sure its more than 5 psi though. Reading a bit and peeps say it comes with 2 springs. Maybe try a different spring?

When i was on the hallman i could get my GT25 upto 21 psi....it fcuked it right up after a few weeks of that though. hahahah. I think the GT25 had an internally gated spring of 10psi. I was not maxing out the hallman though....it was like 2/3-3/4 of max. That GT25 simply would not build more boost than 21 psi on my setup...or at all since it blew very very quickly.

If your brave enough just try the IR BCS and set to 100% duty. Go for a 3rd gear pull and watch your boost gauge...see if you can get over 15 psi (at which point let off the throttle as your 100% duty will cause boost to spike very quickly). If you do you mos def have it hooked up right in which case you still wont be able to build over 20 psi as you might (probably) have a leak somewhere.

Again I'd do a boost leak test. It's really really easy and will confirm that your intake system is sealed. It does not take much of a leak to stop you from building boost. That little vac line is tiny and would let me build over 21 psi. As soon as I fixed it I spiked to 24 psi and had to turn down my duty table values significantly. Went from like 75% to 65% which netted me my goal of 22 through most of my RPM range.

 

[SasaniFab]

Ok so if I want 25psi in 3rd gear how do I configure Dsm link. I put in 100% for the duty cycle, what do I put in for the other two numbers? Lock at below 0% etc. How do I tell dsmlink the boost I want to run?

 

[Vegas Smith]

what is the max of the fp green internal wastegate? I have the waste gate rod adjusted all the way out. Could that be an issue? I thought the hallman gave 5psi max. I'm holding 20-21 psi to redline it doesn't move. When I remove the hallman I get 16 psi to redline

The wastegate serves to reduce boost pressure, therefore, I wouldn't ask what the max is but maybe the minimum boost you could run with that wasetgate?

 

[SasaniFab]

Im not looking to reduce boost pressure, Im aware an external wastegate is better at controlling lower boost levels. Im moving in the opposite direction. I want to increase boost to 25psi. The internal wastegate on the green is adjustable to a certain degree. My point was I tested my setup for leaks and found the s90 had a very bad leak behind the tps sensor. I purchased the bcs to be able to control boost electronically, with the hallman im limited to 5psi I believe. With the hallman im making 20-21 psi to redline, no creep whatsoever.

 

[Vegas Smith]

There shouldn't be any reason why you couldn't get 25psi unless either the wastegate is faulty or there is some giant leak at the exhaust manifold causing the turbine housing to lose flow and not create more boost.

 

[SasaniFab]

So with the fp green and hallman I should be able to hit 25 psi? Like i said im getting 16psi to redline as is. When i added the hallman I got an additional 5-6psi.What is the fp green wastegate limited to? I have no leak whatsoever.

 

[SasaniFab]

Im seeing 40lbs/min at 20 psi, if i had a boost leak wouldnt this be off?

 

[kronus]

Regardless of whether or not you are internally or externally gated, you should be able to hit 25psi. I believe your issue is not the wastegate, but that you have a major boost leak somewhere in your system. Or, you have a very large exhaust leak before the turbo.

A very large exhaust leak would be very easy to diagnose, but the boost leak will be more involved to diagnose. Though, if you have a large enough leak to prevent you from hitting 25 psi, it should be pretty obvious in a boost leak test.

I also think you don't quite understand how a wastegate receives it's signal from the boost source. Whether you are internal or external, or using a manual or electronic controller, the wastegate will open when the signal it receives is enough to overcome the spring holding it shut.

In your case, this is 18 psi. A boost controller intercepts this signal and modifies/reduces the signal that reaches the wastegate itself. Thus, you can have 20psi in the manifold, but if the wastegate Spring only sees 14 psi, the wastegate will remain closed until the signal it receives is 18 psi. Even if that means the pressure in the manifold is 30+ psi. If you follow kmetiuk's guide, and make sure all of your boost leaks are sealed, you should have no issues with the IR bcs.

 

[kmetiuk]

Ok so if I want 25psi in 3rd gear how do I configure Dsm link. I put in 100% for the duty cycle, what do I put in for the other two numbers? Lock at below 0% etc. How do I tell dsmlink the boost I want to run?

I dont think you fully understand. Setting the duty to 100% will effectively disable the wastegate. It will build as much boost as the turbo/setup will allow. If that's 45 psi it will build that pressure. DO NOT DO THIS!! It will likely break something. What I am saying is set to 100% and then do a 3rd gear pull until the exact moment it builds over 15 psi simply to confirm that the IR BCS is working. If it builds 16 psi then you know FOR SURE that the BCS is working properly.

Once you know the IR BCS is working, then follow these steps:
Part A
1. Set the whole duty cycle table to 30% duty and do a 3rd gear pull
2. Did your boost go over 15 psi? If yes see Part B. If no continue with next step
3. Set the whole duty cycle table to 40% duty and do a 3rd gear pull
4. Did your boost go over 15 psi? If yes see Part B. If no continue with next step
5. Set the whole duty cycle table to 50% duty and do a 3rd gear pull
6. Did your boost go over 15 psi? If yes see Part B. If no continue with next step
7. Set the whole duty cycle table to 60% duty and do a 3rd gear pull
8. Did your boost go over 15 psi? If yes see Part B. If no continue with next step
9. Set the whole duty cycle table to 70% duty and do a 3rd gear pull
----you should see more than 15 psi by this point...if not you have a leak somewhere

Part B
1. Success! you have a baseline duty cycle of XX% which builds ~16p psi
2 .SLOWLY increase the base duty. Change duty cycle in the whole table to XX% + 2% and do a 3rd gear pull. (If the baseline duty was 60% for example, increase to 62% and do a 3rd gear pull)
3. Did your boost reach 25 psi? If yes see Part C. If no continue with next step
5. Change duty cycle in the whole table to XX% + 4% and do a 3rd gear pull. (ie: 64% for example....this is not the real number you need to be clear...its just an example)
6. Did your boost reach 25 psi? If yes see Part C. If no continue with next step
7. Change duty cycle in the whole table to XX% + 6% and do a 3rd gear pull.
8. Did your boost reach 25 psi? If yes see Part C. If no continue with next step
9. Change duty cycle in the whole table to XX% + 8% and do a 3rd gear pull.
10. Keep repeating this process....add 2% each pull until you reach your target boost level

Part C
Now that you have reached the target boost in 3rd gear....repeat the above process for gear 1 and 2.
Once that is done dial in your target boost table using your logs to see at what RPM in each gear your boost level is at. Then you can turn on error correction. Once that is done you can set the target boost to 25 psi from the point your turbo is fully spooled up (ie where it spikes to 25 psi the first time usually 3000-4000 RPM) for the rest of the RPM range ( ie from 4000-10000 RPM). Then Log WGSError in link and do a pull. YOu will be able to see the duty cycle that Link is using to keep the boost at that level. Copy from the log into your base duty cycle and your done.

It is an interative process....meaning you have to change the duty cycle a little bit and do a pull. Change a lil more do a pull. It's the safest and really only way to dial it in.

You can't just set it to 25 psi and hope the computer will fill in the base duty cylcle table (that would be artificial intelligence my friend) you have to tell the comp where to start.

The target boost table will only work if you have the base duty cycle table already dialed in using the process I have just described.

 

[kronus]

Ok so if I want 25psi in 3rd gear how do I configure Dsm link. I put in 100% for the duty cycle, what do I put in for the other two numbers? Lock at below 0% etc. How do I tell dsmlink the boost I want to run?

The easiest and fastest way is to just plug percentages into the wastegate duty cycle and see what boost results. Start low, and then work upwards until you hit the boost pressure you want.

Kmetiuk is telling you exactly what you need to know to get this to work.

 

[kmetiuk]

Im seeing 40lbs/min at 20 psi, if i had a boost leak wouldnt this be off?

Maybe....but with out a compressor map and sitting down and doing the proper engineering math how could you possibly know what it should be? You'd also need to know the current denisty of the atmosphere in your area, humididity, dew point, volumetric efficiency at that particular RPM and boost level.

Basically no, you could not tell without doing a shiit ton of math.

 

[Vegas Smith]

I agree with above posts. I'm not sure you understand how the wastegate/boost controller system works. That certainly isn't meant to be a slight and the system is sometimes tricky to understand conceptually. Do you have anycracks on your exhaust manifold? Are you missing any exhaust manifold head studs? Are you missing any metal gaskets on manifold or o2 housing? You may be losing exhaust somewhere before the turbo and that can hurt your total airflow.

 

[SasaniFab]

Regardless of whether or not you are internally or externally gated, you should be able to hit 25psi. I believe your issue is not the wastegate, but that you have a major boost leak somewhere in your system. Or, you have a very large exhaust leak before the turbo.

A very large exhaust leak would be very easy to diagnose, but the boost leak will be more involved to diagnose. Though, if you have a large enough leak to prevent you from hitting 25 psi, it should be pretty obvious in a boost leak test.

I also think you don't quite understand how a wastegate receives it's signal from the boost source. Whether you are internal or external, or using a manual or electronic controller, the wastegate will open when the signal it receives is enough to overcome the spring holding it shut.

In your case, this is 18 psi. A boost controller intercepts this signal and modifies/reduces the signal that reaches the wastegate itself. Thus, you can have 20psi in the manifold, but if the wastegate Spring only sees 14 psi, the wastegate will remain closed until the signal it receives is 18 psi. Even if that means the pressure in the manifold is 30+ psi. If you follow kmetiuk's guide, and make sure all of your boost leaks are sealed, you should have no issues with the IR bcs.

I boost leak tested my setup and have none and have no exhaust leak. The only thing I have done is change the preload on the wastegate. On the fp green the arm has a fitting on the end that you can screw in or out, effectively shortening or lengthening the arm. I have the arm as short as it will allow. Is this incorrect? I have a vacuum line running from the compressor housing to the manifold.

 

[SasaniFab]

All gaskets are new and were replaced, I just installed a new intake manifold, im gunna go through and make sure everything is tight. Nothing was done half way belief me

 

[SasaniFab]

Setup

 

[SasaniFab]

I'm wondering if I have the preload set incorrectly

 

[kmetiuk]

I'm wondering if I have the preload set incorrectly

Yes, the arm should be as short as possible to hold the flapper shut. If it was not set correctly you would build almost no boost (or it would take much longer to spool as the flapper would be slightly cracked open allowing exhaust gas to bypass the turbine.

You should shorten the arm until you can no longer shorten it using your fingers. Then take some tools to it and shorten it a full turn or 2 to put a slight bit of preload on the arm. That way you know for sure that the flapper is tightly shut.

All gaskets are new and were replaced, I just installed a new intake manifold, im gunna go through and make sure everything is tight. Nothing was done half way belief me

If you boost leak tested there would be zero need to make sure everything was tight as the BLT would have confirmed it was all sealed.

By saying that it makes me wonder if you did the boost leak test properly.... if you did you would already understand that everything was tight.

When you did the boost leak test, did you use soapy water on every single intake pipe, throttle body, TPS sensor flange, intake manifold flange, vacuum ports on the intake, vacuum lines to the IR BCS, vac lines to you boost gauge, vac lines to the AFPR, vac lines to the wastegate, wastegate itself, turbo compressor to CHRA flange, intercooler, BOV, vac lins to the BOV etc???

You need to make damn sure that it is all sealed up at every single connection to the intake. There are a lot of them and all the ones I have listed I have had a boost leak at one point or the other.

I have a vacuum line running from the compressor housing to the manifold.

No that is not correct. The compressor is already connected to the manifold via the intake piping....there is no need to run another line from the compressor to the manifold. The vac line should run from the compressor cover to the IR BCS and the other vac line should run from the wastegate to the other side of the IR BCS.

 

[SasaniFab]

I'm certain the boost leak test was done correctly, however I'm going to recheck it because I was just messing around in my engine bay. That is actually when I found that my s90 was leaking like crazy. What I was saying was forget about the bcs and the boost controller. I have the wastegate connected to the compressor housing nipple. I have the wastegate arm adjusted as far as it will go. I believe I am hitting 16-17 psi give or take, that's based on my boost gauge so it's hard to tell as its mechical. My omni 4 bar is showing 20.8 with the hallman screwed all the way in. So with the boost controller it's adding 5 psi. Again if the stock wastegate pressure is 18lbs and the hallman gives u 5psi additional boost. Am I completely brain dead? All the hallman is doing is holding the flapper closed longer so that more boost pressure is created correct?

 

[SasaniFab]

If my internal wastegate is set to open at 18 lbs and I add a hallman. I'm giving myself an addition 5psi. Isn't this how this works. So when 18psi is reached the flapper opens and dumps exhaust to maintain that boost pressure. This is why external wastegate Are better for lower boost levels because they are more sensitive at lower boost levels? What am I missing ?