Important: Improvements on Saturn Alternator Swap

[RipperXX]

Well it seemsbtoday my remain Mitsubishi 90amp alternator decided it has had enough of the heat and yo red line tuning pulls. It's not charging, I'm going to check the wiring when I get home but everything looked and felt good when I checked it after it cooled down. I noticed my voltage steadily dropped after a pull on my way to work this morning.


So I don't have to soft through 17 pages, is there a condensed version of this upgrade that's up to date? If i Havre to replace it, I'd rather upgrade it. Espcially with remain units costing $134...

Also anyone have the part #? I'm having yo sneak out my cell at work or I'd read and find it.

 

[Vegas Smith]

This is the motorcityreman Saturn alternator I just bought: 8215N-Saturn. It work great for me and I have the optional voltage regulator that comes with it. I haven't noticed any voltage issues at all and I'm pretty happy with mine. It also comes with the perfect pulley that requires zero modification. True plug and play.

 

[RipperXX]

$109.98 sweet! Cheaper and an upgrade.

 

[Vegas Smith]

I got the 160a so mine was more.

 

[RipperXX]

I got the 160a so mine was more.

For $50 more it is tempting. But 105amp is quite a lot more than the original 65amp and I don't have a crazy sound system or anything so I think it would be over kill..soo now I just need to get home without my battery dying and pull the trigger when I get home.

 

[boostdawd]

U can go to your local junkyard and pull an alternator from a 95-98 Saturn. The one with external fans is for the twincam engine. You can use one from a sohc as well like I am doing. The plugs/pigtail is different so u want to make sure u get the right one. The alternator from a sohc required less modification to make it work.

 

[RipperXX]

Well after getting home, I guess I ought to confirm it's the alternator first... dont want to install a junkyard unit, but thanks for the suggestion. I'd just be mad if it didn't last long. It's not the easiest thing to pull with my external waste gate setup. Well, near as I can figure it is, so yep upgrade.

 

[RipperXX]

I am to understand other than some grinding the Part # 8215N alternator bolts up and fits in the stock location and lines up with the Mitsubishi belt just fine? Will I need a different belt? Will everything line up correctly?

I think I understand the wiring portion fine after the first couple of pages.

 

[boostdawd]

I am to understand other than some grinding the Part # 8215N alternator bolts up and fits in the stock location and lines up with the Mitsubishi belt just fine? Will I need a different belt? Will everything line up correctly?

Correct. Aside from the grinding and wiring it is bolt on. The belt would fit fine and u would just need to mess around with the tensioner.
I think I understand the wiring portion fine after the first couple of pages.

 

[RipperXX]

Ordered the alternator yesterday with the voltage regulator, $109.98. Then ordered the pigtail for JNZ... man should have probably looked someone where for that pigtail, with shipping it was $27.

 

[boost97gst]

I didn't know where to put this just yet so i started here since it is a bit custom. The Original article can be found HERE

UPDATE/EDIT: YOu can getthe plug at any advance or oreilly auto parts.. you have to ask for a 'GM "CS alternator pigtail... they won't find it looking up "saturn"

above is the method I used to swap mine. There was however a problem with the wiring in this and every other write up on tuners and talk forums.

All existing how-to's say that the black yellow wire on the mitsu harness goes to pin "L" this is true as this is one way that the alt turns on and becomes active, but this circuit MUST HAVE AT LEAST 35Ohms resistance and up to 350 max. (which it does) and this wire alone is enough to work the alt besides the main power feed wire for charging.

However here's where things get off track.. The articles say to hook a switched 12 volt to "pin F" ...This is not really wrong but doesn't do anything! IT is ONLY another way to start the alternator should you not have a "battery lamp" wire that has the 12v with 35Ohm resistance to it.... The "F" terminal is for field and it has it's own resistance built in internally so i've read, but either way it doesn't need a resistor or buib and it starts the alt charging just like the black/yellow battery light wire does..

Now the alt will work OK with it wired this way but after scruitinizing the voltage at all times both on a data logger and FLUKE voltmeter since i did the install i can only say i was less than pleased with the output...sure it was better than OEM but nothingn to write home about. So i set about reading for probably 6 hours in 2 days and calling some of the top high output alt guys listed on the web. That's where i learned about "F"

The important wire is "S" this is the wire that reads the voltage at what ever given area it's attatched to and either lets the alt shut down a little or makes it work harder. And sure it will work withtout it but just not up to my standards or anyone like me ...Most people say loop "S" back to the +batt terminal on the alternator, but the problem with that is it's always going to read 14volts and not adjust at all.... The issue withour cars is voltage drop in the rest of the system and as we all know poor grounding.

Tonight after learning all of this i tore into alternator wiring and just finished with awesome reasults... Here's what i did ... I left the "L" wire hooked up... Pulled the fuse on my "F" wire line just in case i wanted to put it back some day and it was nicely tucked... Then i took "S" and soldered a length of 12 gauge wire to it and routed it back across the car and tied it into my distribution block where it could sense the "dropped volts" and also see how low the main system was getting under load. Then i took a length of 8 gauge wire and mounted 2 ring terminals on the ends.. One end got bolted to the hole in the back of the alt (obviously there for a ground IMO) and then hooked the other end to the main ground from the battery that hooks up at the trans.

I snugged everything up and started the car.. I took a voltage reading at the battery ..14.7 volts..NICE! Then i turned on EVERY accessory the car has..lights, A/C radio, rear defog, wipers, and hazards... And not a single flinch from any thing (normally i can tell low volts because my tach adapter makes my tach go nuts when the volts drop too low) I went back and checked the voltage again at the battery and it was 14.5 I could not have been happier and this was at IDLE..normally to get it back up the old wiring way i had to rev the car and it still would not make 14volts... Now it does it at it's low chugging with the AC on idle

HOpe some of you with saturn alt swaps check what i'm saying and log your volts or check with everything on... if they're fine, cool... If not you now know how to make it right !!

Glenn, i hope you're still active around here. I'm getting the saturn alt. The galant alt i got only makes proper 14v at above 1300rpm, no good
I'm hoping this solves my issue. Thanks for the write up

 

[RipperXX]

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The box says 1wire... did ordering it with the Mitsubishi voltage regulator option change the way it's wired up? If so which is correct? Or rather which yields best output?

This L, F and S shit gets confusing, can't someone just say what color the wire is on the GM pigtail?

 

[RipperXX]

Wait, sooooo with that SE Voltage Regulator for Mitsubishi Eclipse mod, does that turn it into a true 1 wire, just bolt on and hook +B to positive terminal?

 

[boostdawd]

L is light. You would use this wire and splice it to the black/white wire from your harness. F is for field and since u are already using L u don't need this. Leave it alone. S is for sense. You would run this to a distribution block or battery. Preferably to where u would sense a voltage drop. You only need 2 wires dude. Looks like u got a cs130 alternator. If your plug looks like this then hook it up as such.

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[Vegas Smith]

If you ordered the 1 wire option with the internal voltage regulator then you would only hook up one power wire to the alternator fuse then battery. I called Motorcityreman to confirm that on mine and they said you will blow the alternator if you use the GM connector. 1 wire only.

 

[motomattx]

My question is: does the 8215 bolt into the stock location without any mods OR is it still the CS-130 bolt pattern? in other words will it still work with my Jay Racing alt relocation kit utilizing the Saturn alternator setup rather than the Mitsubishi setup?

 

[RipperXX]

Quick question, trying to install this damn thing, I ground down the two round ribs flush where the cross bolt goes that bolts the alternator on and allows it to pivot. As well as one of the closest large bumps closest to the block that it looked like it was contacting. I can get the bolt through one side and to the other end but the alternator wont come down just that faction of an inch more it needs to to line up with the hole in the ear/tab on the far end, I maaaay see another point it's contacting but it looks like if it is it's the slightest hair and it's one of the ribbed points where the bolts that hold the two outer pieces of the alternator together so ?

In the one OLD thread that's not got but two pictures left that work where it says "grind flat" does it mean with the recessed portion where that main cross bolt goes? wont that make the case really thin there?

 

[Vegas Smith]

No idea what your're talking about. I assume you're not relocating it?

 

[RipperXX]

No I'm not. stock location. I'll take and post pictures here in a few minutes. Maybe someone who's already done it can tell me if I need to clearance something I'm missing.

 

[RipperXX]

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[boostdawd]

U need to grind it further down. Get rid of the groove your seeing.

 

[PlanZero]

What is the point of this if it's just going to be in the same location? I don't get what the advantages are of dealing with this headache over just getting another 90amp and making sure you don't have anything leaking on it or fab a lower heat shield out of a stock shield if it's getting toasted.

 

[RipperXX]

A hopefully higher quality alternator that has a better output 95% of the time? I ground that area flat there's no more slot there, and it's still not fitting! It's 95*F outside probably 103* in my shop *ugh* And I'm doing it with a file, because the sanding drumps stones and burr for the dremel clog so fast with the aluminum. I'm thinking I'm going to wait and take it to work tomorrow where we have a 100% duty air compressor for the whole shop and use some air tools and their sanding disks and take it down some more. When I get it to actually fit maybe I'll update the old thread with new pictures of just how much you really have to take it down there. At this point if I had known it was THIS much I would have considered just getting another replacement. I'd like to relocate it, but not going to happen right now. To many bills making things to tight at the moment to do much to the car.

The previous unit never had anything drip on it so that wasn't what killed it. But I posted a thread the other day asking if the bolts that hold it togeather being lose and 2 missing might have caused it!!! Freaking hell! It went from the box to the car, I didn't think I'd need to check their torque or locktite them! This unit cost a few dollars less and I THOUGHT was an upgrade... it sort of is, but with it being a 1 wire setup meh... oh well maybe it will do better.

Here's the old unit. Apparently two of the bolts that hold the two outer pieces of the casing together backed out, one is completely missing the other wasn't doing a damn thing but sitting there. Someone pointed out the cooling fins on the inside look wet, I'm going to take a closer look but I don't recall anything leaking on it. The PS pump fittings are all dry but I'm going to look closer as well at the coolant pipe where it enters the water pump.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/i-...o-with-my-alternator-failing-pictures.513048/

 

[boostdawd]

When I did this it did take numerous times removing material, install, then test. I must have installed and removed around 6x so don't feel frustrated. I used a carbide bur on a air grinder. Makes things easier. Something to note, I also removed a bit of material on the engine block side.

 

[RipperXX]

There's a bit of a sharp corner on the left side of the ear on the block I'm going to take down and smooth with the dremel once it cools down some more today.