Idle Surge, very bad, need help!!!

[xhypno]

Ok here is the problem. On May 6, I bought a 1994 ES Talon with the 2.0l 4g63 motor. It has 65k on it, and is in very good condition. About one week ago, the check engine light went on, and when at an idle the rpms jump about 300-700, and when the clutch is in or when not in gear (slowing down) the same surge appears.
I connected an ohm meter to the data port and came up with a code 43. Which is for the egr system. I tested the thermo valve sensors, all working. I test the vacum to it, good. I figured all that is left is the egr valve. I removed the valve, and it was fauled bad, alot of carbon deposits. I used carb cleaner and a wire brush to clean it. I then vacum checked the valve. It seemed to be working.
At this point I thought every thing should be fine. I put the valve back in and started the car. It was fine. But after a 10 min drive later that day, it started again, but this time with no check engine light.
I have checked every sensor under the hood twice with the ohm meter and still can't find another problem.

Does anyone have a suggestion?????

Any help will be appreciated!!!!! Thank you Philip

 

[kristmen]

I sorta seem to have the same problem as all you guys. Well my girlfriend does. Its her car thats having the problem.

91 awd turbo.

When I start my car the idle is at like 2g's. After a minute or so it drops to about 1500rpm's.

Once I put my car in gear its at like 700'ish. Which is good. Ok problem is if i drive somewhere and put the car in park the idle goes upto about 1500 and then idle surges like a #@%#@%#@%#@%#@%. Bounchs between 1000 and 2000rpm.

Not sure what to check. Reading this forum gives me some places to start looking I guess but um My idle surge problem only seems to be when the cars running and in park.

Any info would be nice.

 

[mickblack]

i had the same problem before..... i had no idea what it was but i worked at a dealership.....and one of the guys said it might have been an IAC which i'm not sure if he meant idle speed control or idle air control but i just told him to order it whatever it was and it stopped it.... it was about 300 or 400 dollars though.... and that was last summer....

 

[weshole]

Ok after reading all of the posts on this problem and having the same problem myself, I said to heck with it and got my hands dirty. First thing I did was a tune up, no change. Then I cleaned out the throttle body, still no change. Put a new o-ring on biss screw and readjusted it, thought that was it but no good. So I adjusted, replaced, and adjusted some more on a used and then new t.p.s. no help. Hell, I even checked and adjusted the timing, still not much help. Finally after hearing so much about it, Iordered in a I.S.C. motor through my work. (napa) It was very pricey even at cost $175.00. but it solved all of my idle surge problems. no more erratic idle however it is still a little rough but stable at 800 rpm. I'm going after o2 sensor next along with a different down pipe to eliminate my slightly rough ide. My so called local exhaust xpert decided that it was ok to put a flex pipe with a 1 3/4 O.D. flex section in place of my stock one when it went bad not only did it hurt my idle butt it also hurt my performance too. Hpoe I was some help.

 

[blackawdturbo]

One thing that has not been mentioned (hopefully, its still early) is that on my car the throttle cables may be too tight. Over time they shrink and tighten causing a high idle when warmed up. I adjusted the bracket on the back of the intake manifold, loosening it up some and voila, warm idle surge gone. If all else fails try this

Good Luck

 

[Thunderskull]

I've been having a strange problem. The car will run fine till it warms up. After which I get a little idle surge. I'll stop at a light with the car either in or out of gear and the idle will surge back and forth from 1000 rpm to 13-1500 rpm. It will surge 3 or 4 times then drop back to normal which is around 900 rpm. It doesn't do this all the time. It's somewhat intermittant, but it never does this when the car is cold. Any ideas?

 

[kristmen]

I cant remember the url off the top of my head but its somewhere here on DSMTuners.com but anyway some place sells the idle speed controller motors for $89.99.

 

[91TSI505]

I had the same problem,adjusted my idol screw a little and put some silicone in it to hold its place.problem stopped.

 

[MOTEK1]

Ok, I got a 91gsx from a friend who couldn't afford to maintain his ride. The problem with his car was that the idle used to surge and he never knew what the problem was, then his engine blew. So now i am getting the engine rebuild and I am wondering if the problem with the idle surge still occur? Is it two different problems or rebuilding the engine should take care of the problem?

 

[goosen9990117]

I had the same exact problem with idle surge similar to yours. I talked to an excellent mechanic that I know and there is a sensor in the throttle body that gets gummed up with carbon, take a little carb cleaner after it with the engine off. Then after you get it cleaned start it up and spray a little carb cleaner in. The engine will burn off the excess cleaner and won't hurt the engine at all.

 

[Maxximillion]

How about clean the throttle body I use carb or sensor safe brake cleaners cause there almost half the price, a new air filter and maybe a tune up in general! that got my car running right, In the tune up I used accel thundersport 3000s and ngk iridium plugs but with a turbo maybe just the v grooves! dont forget to use anti sieze on the threads Also used k+n filter and a new pcv valve then adjust the base idle speed set screw with a black cap over it! it should idle at 750-800rpm also double check all wire and hose connections, I forgot to connect the one on the air can an "almost blew a gasket" till we noticed it wasnt connected

 

[Rhino]

Replace your ISC.I picked mine up from a junkyard for $25.00 CDN.I also replaced my BISS O-Ring and cleaned my TB at the same time.I put her together today and started her up and she idles pretty good (considering I still need a tune-up).Also,make sure your ISC switch (the one that screws into the back-side of your TB,that grounds when the TB plate closes is screwed in properly,not too far).Anyway,that's what I did and it worked out great.Later

 

[CYrUs0k5]

Well, I had the dreaded surge . So I took it to my guy who fixes my car when I break it. He plugged it into his "Asian car computer" or so he called it. It took him 3 hours to even figure out what was wrong with the car! When he did we learned it was the intake solenoid. I have no ####ing clue what that is but it cost me $70.00... after install and him finding it, it cost me $270.00. OUCH. But hey it's fixed... 2 days fixed running strong sigh...

 

[heyiplaydrums]

i had the same problem but it was just a little vacuum problem like i thought it would turn out to be, it seems like it was a huge vacuum problem and i had cracked my intake manifold, and my idle was at just under 4000 rpm.
now for the bad news, it was about 450 to fix that and the O2 sensor, but it puts pressure on your clutch, so it you got the same problem, get it done quick, i turned out wasting like 1200 big ones--doesnt sound to fun huh

 

[jmbrage]

i had bad idle surge too, car would stall when start no matter what, and before that it would stall out at lights/stop signs or idle horribly.

what i did to fix it:
checked isc motor, tps sensor, o2 sensor, batter terminals and grounds, reset ecu, checked for any vacum leaks, replaced fuel filter, did timing fix, airfilter, oilchange/filter, checked sparkplugs and distributor rotar cap, and injectors. i did all that and nothing fixed the car, yet ive seen so many threads of this, one of those fixed some one problem. what fixed my surge was cleaning out the TB good with carb cleaner. the throttle plate got gummed up and wasnt opening and closing right. also, the fuel pump was weak and giving low pressure. Did you do any mods? after i put injen intake and cold air ram mod and a flowmaster muffler i got the problem.

also do a self diagnosis with a volt meter to see if its your ecu. theres so many causes for idle surge it takes a while to find out what it is and to fix it.

hope that all helps, i kinda gathered all the info from everyone else's threads, and finally my car was fixed and running smooter and better than ever.

 

[honduraneclipse]

thanks guys for all the info ... i have had my car since march of 2003 and from the very first day it had idling problems.....from the nasty 3'200 rpm rev at a stop light to the annoying 400 rpm idle which in case would shut the car off if you did not give it gas.....ive being to many mechanics but never really got a straight answer.... first fixed exhaust leaks then replaced the cooked spark plugs and wires... also did a water pump , fixed the timing belt position, new head gasket, cleaned the TB with carb cleaner even changed the pvc valve and still idling problems .... finally my engine blew...... im going for a rebuild and looking for these places you guys described such as the MAS and the IDLE SPEED CONTROL MOTOR .... does sound like great places to look for my problem ... .and yes i believe the idling problem should be fixed after you rebuild the engine


that means the idling problem would not be fixed if you rebuild the engine

 

[alvieteal]

i was just wondering what the stock idel speed is

 

[EvilGalantGSX]

Ive been battling this problemmy self, so fars i have changed the ISC and the TPS and agjusted it with in spec, new wires and plugs. I gonna change the O2 here in a little while and change the power steering belt to/spuells like a bi*** and is very loose/.



If the O2 doesnt fix it i dont know what to do, ive also cleaned out the T-body.

 

[805eclipse]

Yes i have the idle surge too, and here is what ive done to try and fix it.

Replaced ISC, o2 sensor(worked for 30 miles), TPS, BISS, cleaned out TB, New plugs and wires, and Tune Up. I love my dsm but DAMN .

Ok so i hear it can be the EGR valve so im gonna test that out next, if it does turn out to be my problem how hard is it to replace cuz i have a second DSM as a parts car i could take it off of. Let me know. THANKS!

 

[EvilGalantGSX]

I block off my EGR last night and it didnt realy help much. Car runs like poop when cold but let it warm up 15-20 minuets and it runs pretty good only with a little miss.

 

[MNGSX]

I still don't know why everybody blames EGR for things.

As long as the EGR valve works and the solinoid too it should run better on the street.

I block off my EGR last night and it didnt realy help much. Car runs like poop when cold but let it warm up 15-20 minuets and it runs pretty good only with a little miss.

Here is what I would do.

1. Propane vaccum leak test. Don't know hit search.
2. Test the following sensors per service manual

Coolant temp.

If this sensor is bad the ECU can't adjust timing for cold start and warm up. It may be telling the ECU that the engine is warm already when it is'nt. Either way a bad temp sensor can affect the engines fuel and air calculations.

TPS- Throttle position

ISC- Test
http://dmtalon.v8eaters.com/ISC.html

02- sensor. The heater may be dead or another problem may be causing it to read wrong



More idle tips

http://www.dsm.org/how-tos/tttt/tttt3.html

 

[Jim]

Originally posted by DSMZEX
Idle surge!!! YOUR QUESTIONS ARE ANSWERED!!! look I have had the infamous sugre for over a year now... I have changed my computer, ISC screw, ISC motor, FAst Idle air valve. and none of these did anything... so dont worry too much about these things... go for the O2 sensor... or TPS first... throttle body cleaning, and tune up....

Vacuum leaks can also cause the same problems

 

[EvilGalantGSX]

FYI. I used a new ecu, and made sure my vacume lines were good and if ou have recently taken your injectors out make sure that you have put all the correct seals in and that they are not cracked.

 

[Legacy357]

I have read every reply in this forum about idle surge, and honestly you all are on the right track. But there is only one thing that I did not see mentioned, "coolant sensor". About a month ago I was getting this mysterious "idle surge" and thought that it was the tps, ISC etc. But in fact the coolant sensor that sits right up under my coolant hose was jacked! My ecu kept thinking that the air coming in to the throttle body was negative 40 degrees!! So it was not trying to give the car enough fuel because it thought it was skating on ice. I almost lost my mind when my mechanic told me this. But after replacing this one piece, everything went back to normal. I have a 2G so I don't know if this effects any or all 1G's. Definitly take a look at it and see if it helps.

 

[APEXiD33a]

For anyone who has their throttle body coolant lines byapssed u will DEFINETELY get this idle surge if u do not block the FIAV valve. This valve is open until the car warms up, (coolant warms up) , then melts some wax in the valve and then closes the hole to let no air bypass the throttle plate. This is made for cold starts. U dont need it in warm climates, i dont drive my car in the winter so all i did was bypass the coolant lines and use rtv silicon ( u can use jb cold weld too probably will work best) on the holes indicated in the pic thats attached.

 

[Jim]

Originally posted by APEXiD33a
For anyone who has their throttle body coolant lines byapssed u will DEFINETELY get this idle surge if u do not block the FIAV valve. This valve is open until the car warms up, (coolant warms up) , then melts some wax in the valve and then closes the hole to let no air bypass the throttle plate. This is made for cold starts. U dont need it in warm climates, i dont drive my car in the winter so all i did was bypass the coolant lines and use rtv silicon ( u can use jb cold weld too probably will work best) on the holes indicated in the pic thats attached.

I would have never found that. Thank you for the info.