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2G Hx40 kick the bucket worth rebuild

Posted by Lilslmj, Dec 7, 2018

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  1. Lilslmj

    Lilslmj Proven Member

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    Berwick, Pennsylvania
    So last night on my way home from work I wanted to do a pull just because I'm addicted. Anyway as im building boost on the line (stalled auto) I get to admit 14psi and I hear a pshweew noise car falls on its face wideband stops working throwing error 2 code (bad sensor) so instead I just limp it home and learn it for the night

    Next morning I decide to check to see what's with the wideband but couldn't get that to work so probably just need new sensor (3 months old if that) I decide to do a boost leak thinking that was the noise I heard so I do that get it upto 20psi all is good. Above 20psi I can hear a leak but can't find it anywhere so thinking it may be blow by.

    After doing BLT pulling coupler off turbo something caught my attention. My not backed off somehow killing compressor wheel so I tear turbo apart and find the turbine shaft is slightly bent broken turbine blade (probably killed the sensor) and turbine housing (.55) is gouged up.

    My question is is this turbo even reasonably salvageable at a reasonable price? Can the housing be used or would it need machine for larger turbine, have to buy another? I know the hx40 isn't recommended running in the .55 but I think the t3 isn't beneficial for me still being a bone stock 7 bolt bottom end and already having a very small powerband with the high stall. Not an ideal setup I know.

    I only paid 250 bucks for it 6 years ago and it's been a good turbo that whole time but I recently upped the boost from 22psi to 30psi and I think that's what may have killed it in such a small housing.

    20181207_131054.jpg 20181207_134431.jpg 20181207_134438.jpg 20181207_134423.jpg 20181207_134514.jpg 20181207_134520.jpg 20181207_134444.jpg 20181207_134505.jpg 20181207_135122.jpg 20181207_135432.jpg
     

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    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST

    Street Build

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  2. 007jimmy

    007jimmy Proven Member

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    I don’t think it’s salvageable. Too much damage to just about everything. ​
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

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  3. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Independence, Kansas
    Exhaust temp heat was killing mine on E. On gas, mine didn't get near as hot.
    I have broke 3 I think.
    Here is the one that didn't quite get red hot enough to snap, just bend. All in .55's and all on E85 with alot of timing. Just for compairing destruction LOL.
    It's all that hot gas going through such a small place that it seems to torch the shafts.
    I was running more boost tho.
    20181207_163124.jpg
     
    My DSM:
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  4. bettfootball

    bettfootball Proven Member

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    LOL That thing looks like a soggy noodle
     
  5. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    It ran like one too! Glad I was on speed density. It made it home....just a couple miles.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

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    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.620 @ 108.460 MPH
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

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  6. iugrad92turbo

    iugrad92turbo Proven Member

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    Kalamazoo, Michigan
    Hx40 pump for me now soon t3 set up, don't want to brake my new turbo.
     
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  7. Crackerman

    Crackerman Proven Member

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    Joined Feb 28, 2018
    Alvord, Texas
    From what I see, the .55 dsm bullseye housing is the reason the hx40's fail.
    Leave the t3 12, 14 or 16xm turbine on it and enjoy a better performing turbo without the failures
     
  8. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    Easy fix. I have all the parts here and could dress the housing up no problem to boot.

    The housing a/r is too small for that size of a turbine. This happens on the T350/62mm Precision turbos in DSM housings as well but Holsets are more-common so you hear more about it. There's zero bypass at the nozzle so it forces all of the exhaust flow to exit the wheel with each revolution which is a recipe for overspeed at high boost levels and high EGT's.

    received_10155246679447003.jpeg

    A major factor in killing a large turbine in a small a/r housing is when guys increase boost or run E85 without knock to 13:1 AFR's with no regard to EGT's. I've been remedying this for HX40 users lately by cutting back the turbine inducer a couple mm which raises turbine trim and increases bypass around the radius which takes the stress off the turbine itself.



    Other turbos aren't immune to turbine overspeed failures either...like this 82HTA Black from an Evo 10. High EGT's and lots of exhaust energy along with the heatsoak from being buried in the back of the engine against the firewall can definitely weaken shafts and pose reliability issues.

    82HTABlack-1.jpg
     
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  9. Archer Fabrications

    Archer Fabrications Supporting Vendor

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    Scottsdale, Arizona
    New turbo time. But for the record I ran an hx40 in the .55 housing on pump gas 94 oct at 30psi with no issues,
    And in the t3 housing at 38psi with zero issues... it could be the lean mixture on e that is causing the higher temps, but E is supposed to burn cooler then gas if I’m correct. Without measuring EGT, you will never know for sure, but do you have a log from when this happened?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
    My DSM:
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  10. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    wampum, Pennsylvania
    I would say that the nut coming loose was the result rather than the cause of that turbo failure, if your smart there will be an ad that goes something like this:

    For sale: One slightly used intercooler, only driven to church on sundays by a little old lady.

    You very very likely have powdered metal all through your intercooler now that you will not be able to effectively clean out by any means, I would toss that intercooler and also pull your intake pipes off and very thoroughly clean each and every piece of your intake system from turbo to intake valves, including removing the intake manifold and letting it soak overnight in gunk and then pressure washing it out at the carwash, and thorough cleaning of the throttle body, and run your fingers in the intake ports and take a look on your finger for any shiny metal parts left over. Also change your engine oil and clean the oil drain pipe from your turbo.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
    My DSM:
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

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  11. Lilslmj

    Lilslmj Proven Member

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    Berwick, Pennsylvania
    Unfortunately this was the one time I wasn't logging. I've had the turbo for over 5 years now without any issues so I can't hardly complain since I only paid 250 bucks iirc for the complete setup
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST

    Street Build

    GT35   automatic
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  12. Lilslmj

    Lilslmj Proven Member

    58
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    Joined Feb 8, 2018
    Berwick, Pennsylvania
    I'm unsure which route I'm gonna go now. I was thinking of building it to a 62mm compressor and going t3 .70 but I don't want to be bored with it as the current setup was fun but had a very short powerband being auto sinister stall and not being able to rev beyond 7500. It would spool fast but with the stall it would jump to about 6500 rather quick and have to shift at 7500. I can post logs so you all can understand how small the powerband was. I'm just afraid going t3 it will be a boring turbo as im still stock 7 bolt motor so that's a big limiting factor. Gonna have more lag but will flow more up top so can probably run it to 8k still a small powerband. I have a lot of research I need to do to figure out my best options. Eventually I plan to build the motor but my goal was to see what I could get out of this current stock block setup but can't now. I'm thinking it was a low 11sec car but I could be wrong. I know if i go t3 I'm gonna be into it probably 1500 if not more between rebuilding, buying a housing, getting a decent t3 manifold and exhaust fab. I just don't know what way to go yet I wasn't expecting for this to happen so it really put my other plans of larger fuel pump and setting up flex fuel over winter on hold now
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST

    Street Build

    GT35   automatic
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  13. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    Just going T3 would be a major shift in your powerband. If you do anything compressor-wise, a drop-in 4016C billet replacement is fine. I have three users logging between 78 and 80 lb/min with the billet 60mm HX40's and boost in the 38-42psi range. The larger-inducer (higher-trim) compressors only seem to add airflow above 40psi; below that they only add lag and are somewhat-unreliable in small a/r housings.

    We ran the 66/84mm (T67 clone) wheel for one season in the .70 T3 housing and it started to wipe out the OEM Holset thrust plate which is very hard to do...switched to a machined Garrett .82 T3 housing and the turbo never had thrust wear again; although in going from a .70 Bullseye housing on an ERL manifold (which went 8.77) to a top-mount custom-fabbed manifold with 1.5" runners (which never went as fast as the old setup) and a the .82 housing we also gained almost 1000rpms of lag.

    If you do end up moving on from this setup entirely and decide to sell the compressor cover and turbine housing, PM me.
     
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  14. Archer Fabrications

    Archer Fabrications Supporting Vendor

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    Scottsdale, Arizona
    It happens.... I had a motor failure and never recovered from it, car is being parted out. so it could be worse. Let me know if I can help you out with any of your turbo needs if you decide to shift away from holset or if you need a manifold and exhaust wheb you do decide to change things up I would be happy to help!
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Drag Race Build

    11.128 @ 132.5 MPH
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  15. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Independence, Kansas
    2 weeks ago my son took a stock 7 bolt with a TS mani and HX35 to the track. Stock converter, stock cams, HX35 and 1200 injectors.
    Went 11.5 @ 120 first pass off the trailer.
    Just trying to give you some hope!
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   automatic
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.620 @ 108.460 MPH
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    13.612 @ 107.760 MPH
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    Archer Fabrications likes this.
  16. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Me thinks this pretty much sums up that turbocharger:

    effd.png
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Drag Race Build

    GT42   manual
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  17. Lilslmj

    Lilslmj Proven Member

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    Berwick, Pennsylvania
    Haha my pet squirrel tears my hands up constantly. Ppl probably think im a junkie when they see my hands and arms
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST

    Street Build

    GT35   automatic
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  18. Lilslmj

    Lilslmj Proven Member

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    Joined Feb 8, 2018
    Berwick, Pennsylvania
    I don't know much about turbos so this is just shooting in the dark but I was thinking of going with a 60mm 70mm hx35 turbine wheel in a .63 turbine housing to help with spool but flow a little more then the bep .55 housing and run a bbillet60mm compressor wheel. More I know my idea may be totally wrong but what is your thought on that. I'm stalled auto awd stock 7bolt 272 cams of that helps. Money is always tight paying on 2 mortgages so im trying to be thrifty but not if it's gonna hurt performance hugely
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST

    Street Build

    GT35   automatic
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  19. iugrad92turbo

    iugrad92turbo Proven Member

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    Kalamazoo, Michigan
    Im on a 60mm hx40 and im on bep .55 for now, just to get it on and running, but def want to get a t3, just want to get the best out of my setup.
     
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  20. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    Don't ever put a HX40 compressor on a HX35 turbine with intention of it being a performance turbo without AMPLE turbine flow through a large housing a/r. If cash is tight, fix what you have for now and run it instead of planning to change the whole setup. If you want to go T3 on a budget, sell the HX40 and get a HY35 and a cast T3 manifold then have an o2 housing fabricated. Still 60 lb/min capable with a completely-different powerband than the .55 bolt-on housing on a HX40 along with better reliability.

    Customer of mine tried one of the .63 Tims Turbos housings on a HX35 a few years ago and it made less power than the old T04E60 Garrett it replaced and he suddenly had trouble keeping the wastegate closed even though the turbine wheel on the HX35 was 5mm bigger. So either the turbine itself doesn't flow that great or the housing they're selling isn't actually .63 a/r for backpressure to go up on a turbo with a larger turbine and smaller compressor.
     
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  21. Lilslmj

    Lilslmj Proven Member

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    Joined Feb 8, 2018
    Berwick, Pennsylvania
    I'd like to keep the 40 and rebuild just cause I already have it and I'll know what I have after rebuild.

    Another question I had as far as replacing the turbine shaft is I see the stock 64mm 12 blade, a stock 64mm 10 blade and a 67mm 10 blade. What are the pros and cons of these? There are a lot more variables than I thought when it comes to building and matching a turbo to my setup.
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST

    Street Build

    GT35   automatic
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  22. iugrad92turbo

    iugrad92turbo Proven Member

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    Joined May 22, 2007
    Kalamazoo, Michigan
    Hey Justin I remember talking the hy35 for my setup, well you know the rest as far as how it all went. I was considering that route as well.
     
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  23. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    Lately (on turbos that didn't begin as a core with no wheel damage or reman unit with other wheel arrangements) I've been building all new units planned to be used in the small .55 a/r housing with the 10-blade regardless of the compressor; all cast-compressor T3 units with a 12-blade, and all billet units with a 10-blade just so nobody can "think" their turbine is holding them back from their spool or flow goals. That being said, I've never seen it make one bit of difference either way. We went 9.12 and trapped 158.5mph with a 12-blade 76/64mm turbine driving a cast 60mm 6-blade compressor in a .70 Bullseye T3 housing.

    The 67mm turbine is a H1E wheel and doesn't fit any existing HX40 housings unless they're machined for it. You can't use this turbine in the .55 Bullseye housing because there would be nothing left to the already-thin shroud. The 76/67 wheel only came from Holset in 12-blade form so if you're seeing it offered as a 10-blade it's an offshore adaptation. This turbine isn't needed whatsoever on a cast-wheel 60mm (or smaller) HX40 with a proper-sized turbine housing.

    As I said above I've been trimming the turbine inducer back slightly to around 74mm and machining the nozzle point out a bit on the .55 housing turbos just to make sure there's a little bypass in an effort to make the turbo more reliable and from what I've seen so far it's been working. Don't attempt to do this on your own without proper equipment and without getting the turbine rebalanced afterward, however.
     
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