Holset Turbos, PART 3

[Spidey]

Cool, looks like we'll be running similar setups(stock motor/cams here too, though I have a 6-bolt w/ 8:1cr) aside from the turbine housings. I really need to order some flanges and get this exhaust done, ugh.

 

[drewvr4]

Cool, looks like we'll be running similar setups(stock motor/cams here too, though I have a 6-bolt w/ 8:1cr) aside from the turbine housings. I really need to order some flanges and get this exhaust done, ugh.

That was one of the motor complicated problems with mine, as the compressor housing hit the block with my Slowboy manifold, had to end up spacing it out with a 1/2" flange and extending everything out to reason it, wastegate is still open dump till i can roll over to the exhaust shop and have something fabbed up

 

[dsm-onster]

Is the Hx40pro more comparable to a BW S258 or like an S300 series.

I have decided that I would really like a BEP HX40pro or BEP S258 for my next setup, obviously with the Holset being cheaper but the BW spooling faster and being more effecient at 20-25psi, I imagine.

How quickly does each BW spool? The traight hx40 pro (non-hybrid) in the .55 a/r bep housing spools under 4K. This turbo really should have the .70 a/r bep housing. Or a holet 14cm^2 turbine housing. Maybe a 12cm^2 housing would be enough. But there is one dsm that has put down 600 whp in the .55 a/r housing. That is about at the limit of the compressor around 66 lbs/min or a little over 900cfm. The first page of this thread has the efficiency map of this turbo but it doesn't show the higher 133K rpms line that really shows the potential of the compressor like the below map. Otherwise, the maps overlap each other perfectly.

 

[ceedawg]

How quickly does each BW spool? The traight hx40 pro (non-hybrid) in the .55 a/r bep housing spools under 4K. This turbo really should have the .70 a/r bep housing. Or a holet 14cm^2 turbine housing. .

Well that's good to know. With a 16 cm housing how would that compare to the 14cm?

 

[kraka]

Wow, didn't realize there was a .70 BEP, just a .70 T3.

How do HX40's compare with 40pro's, the regular HX40 are easier to find?

The BWS200 series definitely do not make as much power as you are describing the HX40 as making. It's very exciting to know, although that compressor housing looks gigantic! I don't mind using a NT water pipe but if I would have to use a spacer or do some fab work then forget it.

 

[GORBS88]

Wow, didn't realize there was a .70 BEP, just a .70 T3.

How do HX40's compare with 40pro's, the regular HX40 are easier to find?

The BWS200 series definitely do not make as much power as you are describing the HX40 as making. It's very exciting to know, although that compressor housing looks gigantic! I don't mind using a NT water pipe but if I would have to use a spacer or do some fab work then forget it.

The bullseye .70 a/r housing only comes in a T-3 inlet.

 

[kicker91laser]

Has anyone ran the hx40 with the .70 t3 housing? If so, how were the spool characteristics? This thread has alot of great info

 

[IPT]

I just talked to David @ BEP. They can make more of the BOLT on housings, but they will have to be out of stainless steel and that means more money. And they can't just do one or two at a time it would make the cost of the housings WAY too much.

 

[dsm-onster]

I just talked with Nick at theturbotrader.com. He is getting a shipment of the stainless steel turbine housings this month from BEP. These are the .55 a/r housings for hx35 or hx40 with the Mitsu inlet flange. The carbon steel are being "discontinued". I can't remember everything in the conversation, but I believe you can get the .70 a/r housing in stainless, as well. T3 only though. They are a little more expensive. But look nicer and keep the holsets bolt-onish for the time being. At least I still have a home for mine.

EDIT: I see you're on the ball, Nick ^^^^^

 

[IPT]

I can't remember everything in the conversation, but I believe you can get the .70 a/r housing in stainless, as well. T3 only though.

These are Iron housings.

 

[dsm-onster]

These are Iron housings.

Thanx ! I will be getting an hx40/h1e in the mail, but don't want to play with it until I get my smaller one rolling. The .70 a/r would be perfect, IMHO. Or a 14 cm^2 twin scroll. I keep going between the two. The .70 a/r BEP would be much more affordable than sourcing or cutting a 14cm^2 to fit and then dealing with the outlet. But twin scroll is a bit more efficient.

 

[kicker91laser]

The .70 t3 housings are not a bep housing correct? Anyone know what the ss mitsu housings will run? If I knew they were going to cast some ss ones, I wouldn't have bought the carbon steelies

 

[IPT]

The other stainless steel housings I have seen for sale run around $220. Those are the 4/5 bolt housings. I would imagine the SS DSM housings would be simularly priced.

 

[dsm-onster]

The H1E/WH1E I have here is brand new! I paid under $300 for it. It's got the 58mm 8 blade compressor. The blade shape and number of blades is identical to my H1C, just 4mm larger inducer and a MWE groove . The exducer is the same as my H1C, so I feel ok running this compressor with the smaller hx35/h1c turbine. The major diameters of the wheels would be outside of the 10% sizing rule. 70mm/81mm is 86%. But early hx35s all h1Cs are already running that same wheel diameter ratio from the factory. 7 blde hx35s run a worse ratio. With the compressor swap, I also get a MWE groove. This larger compressor may outflow a h1c/hx35 turbine in the .55 a/r bep housing. But I think running the .70 a/r housing with the h1c/hx35 turbine would be good enough to merit the upgrade.

. . .I'm reviewing my speculations about the three hx40 compressor maps we have from holset. It makes no sense that the smallest map is the map of the 8blade hx40. It has a 58mm compressor inducer for goodness sake!!! This thing has to flow more than what that small map depicts. The Garrett gt4082 has a 58mm inducer and 82mm exducer, a 58lb/min compressor. The 8 blade hx40 has a 58mm inducer and 81mm exducer. The Hx40/h1E has more blades, which assist in more boost early without needing to reach higher compressor rpms. More blades just "get in the way" at higher flows. So it clearly flows less than a garrett gt40 compressor, but it should flow WAY more than 45 lbs/min seen in that little hx40 map on the first page of this thread.

Anyway, the compressor cover and compressor wheel is interchangeable from what I see and research. All the diesel forums say the samething: The hx compressors and turbines/shafts are balanced individually from the factory, so there's no need to get a rebalance after swapping in a new wheel; but the H1 turbos were balanced as an assembly.

I've never swapped compressor wheels before. I wonder if you can have the individual wheels balanced separately so that you can interchange between them at will , though they wern't originally balanced that way. . . It's likely much more expensive.

 

[ceedawg]

The H1E/WH1E I have here is brand new! I paid under $300 for it. It's got the 58mm 8 blade compressor. The blade shape and number of blades is identical to my H1C, just 4mm larger inducer and a MWE groove . The exducer is the same as my H1C, so I feel ok running this compressor with the smaller hx35/h1c turbine. The major diameters of the wheels would be outside of the 10% sizing rule. 70mm/81mm is 86%. But early hx35s all h1Cs are already running that same wheel diameter ratio from the factory. 7 blde hx35s run a worse ratio. With the compressor swap, I also get a MWE groove. This larger compressor may outflow a h1c/hx35 turbine in the .55 a/r bep housing. But I think running the .70 a/r housing with the h1c/hx35 turbine would be good enough to merit the upgrade.

. . .I'm reviewing my speculations about the three hx40 compressor maps we have from holset. It makes no sense that the smallest map is the map of the 8blade hx40. It has a 58mm compressor inducer for goodness sake!!! This thing has to flow more than what that small map depicts. The Garrett gt4082 has a 58mm inducer and 82mm exducer, a 58lb/min compressor. The 8 blade hx40 has a 58mm inducer and 81mm exducer. The Hx40/h1E has more blades, which assist in more boost early without needing to reach higher compressor rpms. More blades just "get in the way" at higher flows. So it clearly flows less than a garrett gt40 compressor, but it should flow WAY more than 45 lbs/min seen in that little hx40 map on the first page of this thread.

Anyway, the compressor cover and compressor wheel is interchangeable from what I see and research. All the diesel forums say the samething: The hx compressors and turbines/shafts are balanced individually from the factory, so there's no need to get a rebalance after swapping in a new wheel; but the H1 turbos were balanced as an assembly.

I've never swapped compressor wheels before. I wonder if you can have the individual wheels balanced separately so that you can interchange between them at will , though they wern't originally balanced that way. . . It's likely much more expensive.

Under 300.00 not bad . What size is the turbine hsing?

 

[dsm-onster]

19cm^2. . . I bet Jeremiah (Maglin) would be interested in the housing. It is t4 flanged. . . This is wastegated though.

 

[dsm-onster]

This is the 58mm h1e compressor map from all the turbomustang forums. It is rendered in cfm and kg/sec. . . The bottem units of this map are the same for the hx40 maps as this map. So an easy conversion to lbs/min can be had since the hx40 map show lbs/min up top. The 72.5 mass flow perameter on the bottem axis of this h1e map corresponds to 55 lbs/min on the hx40 maps. So this is a 580 crank hp turbo.

The geometry of the hx40 8blade and the h1c are minimal according to those who've seen both! So the 8 blade flows similar. And the second hx40 compressor map shown in the first page of this thread is dead nuts at the same massflow. So the little hx40 8 blade flow 55lbs/min. . . Not too shabby .

 

[dsm-onster]

Below are some interesting maps which includes the hx52 (Ahem, look Jeremiah, ahem!).

Clearly the mass flow number is the same unit of "massflow perameter" on the the green gridded Holset maps. The standard high flow hx40 shows 80 or 60 lbs/min (very close to the 3rd hx40 compressor map we already have. The super 40 map shows a little over 90 for the "massflow perameter" or 68 lbs/min. This is likely the hx40 pro map!!! Good flow. But not over 70 lbs/min as some claim.

The hx 52 is 115. This corresponds to 87 lbs/min.

 

[ceedawg]

Which of the Borg and warner turbo's compares to the HX40 pro,the S256,258 or 300?

Also the turbine/compressor wheel measurements on the HX40 pro are as follows:

Exhaust wheel: 64mm (2.51") exducer by 76mm (2.99") overall

Compressor wheel: 60mm (2.36") inducer by 84mm (3.30") overall 6-blade


Which one of these Borg and Warner turbo's have similar measurements?

 

[gixrman]

Anyone price out a pro wheel?

 

[ceedawg]

Anyone price out a pro wheel?

Here:


High Tech Turbo

 

[aero_sallee]

Just bought something to experiment with aver the next few months.
I know fitment is going to be a pain in the ass with the large TH and VGT controller if I end up using that.

eBay Motors: holset turbo cummins dodge new (item 230214642700 end time Jan-25-08 16:37:17 PST)

I look forward to trying it all out.

 

[ceedawg]

Just bought something to experiment with aver the next few months.
I know fitment is going to be a pain in the ass with the large TH and VGT controller if I end up using that.

eBay Motors: holset turbo cummins dodge new (item 230214642700 end time Jan-25-08 16:37:17 PST)

I look forward to trying it all out.

Will be interesting to see how you'll get it to wrk.

 

[IPT]

Which of the Borg and warner turbo's compares to the HX40 pro,the S256,258 or 300?

Also the turbine/compressor wheel measurements on the HX40 pro are as follows:

Exhaust wheel: 64mm (2.51") exducer by 76mm (2.99") overall

Compressor wheel: 60mm (2.36") inducer by 84mm (3.30") overall 6-blade


Which one of these Borg and Warner turbo's have similar measurements?

S360NET has almost the exact same measurements and they are CHEAP too!!!

The Turbo Trader

 

[dsm-onster]

Just bought something to experiment with aver the next few months.
I know fitment is going to be a pain in the ass with the large TH and VGT controller if I end up using that.

eBay Motors: holset turbo cummins dodge new (item 230214642700 end time Jan-25-08 16:37:17 PST)

I look forward to trying it all out.

Awesome! try it out! Ask for help if you're stumped. . . maybe we can help . . .

I'm just waiting on Nicks shipment to get this h1c running!!!! Maybe it's a cheap alternative to the 50-trim/hx35/20g/s200bw/etc turbo.