1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Trouble Logging In or Staying Logged In?

    CLEAR YOUR BROWSER COOKIES! More info about this can be found here. If you still have trouble after clearing your browser's cookies and cache, reply to that thread and tell us what browser you're using and what device you're using.

Help me pick a turbo

Posted by JDT, Nov 9, 2018

Please Support Feal Suspension
  1. JDT

    JDT Proven Member

    341
    51
    Joined Apr 23, 2010
    DSM, California
    I’m looking for a 450whp capable turbo on pump gas with some headroom to exceed 500whp+ if I choose to do so later down the line.

    I’m looking for something with a T3 turbine housing with a v-band exhaust outlet. I’d also prefer a billet wheel if possible.

    This is going to go on a street car that won’t be revved very high (say 6500-6800 rpm limit) so the quicker spool the better.

    I’ve been looking at some Borg Warner units but most seem to have gigantic compressor housings. I’m doing a top mount setup with a decent amount of space - enough to clear most Holsets.

    I’d appreciate any suggestions on what to go with.
     

    Log in/Register to remove ads
    My DSM:
    JDT 1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    Loading...

    Featured Products from our Supporting Vendors

  2. Crackerman

    Crackerman Proven Member

    45
    14
    Joined Feb 28, 2018
    Alvord, Texas
    Hx35 with a Mr peepers manifold from Morrison Fab should meet all of your goals with room to grow. (Hx40 later or a built holset with up to a 67mm compressor wheel is possible)
     
  3. Dstarperformance01

    Dstarperformance01 Proven Member

    711
    129
    Joined Mar 5, 2016
    Mustang, Oklahoma
    Borg Warner S300 is another option
     
    My DSM:
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    16g   automatic
    Loading...
    JDT likes this.
  4. 90laserRSfwd

    90laserRSfwd Proven Member

    1,286
    71
    Joined Mar 5, 2007
    Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania
    Loading...
  5. JDT

    JDT Proven Member

    341
    51
    Joined Apr 23, 2010
    DSM, California
    My DSM:
    JDT 1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    Loading...
  6. donniekak

    donniekak DSM Wiseman

    4,486
    741
    Joined Mar 23, 2008
    Surprise, Arizona
    Get a standard 3076 in a .63 housing.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

      manual
    Loading...
  7. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

    12,704
    689
    Joined Dec 13, 2005
    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    Holset HY35 hands-down, although they're getting a little difficult to find being that the donor vehicles are pretty outdated (99-02 automatic Dodge trucks). There are companies that sell a bolt-on 3" v-band flange for the outlet, and you definitely won't need to waste money on a billet compressor upgrade. They are probably the most-underrated pump gas turbo available.

    HY35-1.jpg
    HY35-2.jpg



    They even clear block on the $100 eBay Rev9 cast T3 manifolds if you do a little custom grinding to the turbine housing.

    HY35-3.jpg
     
    Loading...
    JDT and iugrad92turbo like this.
  8. Archer Fabrications

    Archer Fabrications Supporting Vendor

    6,079
    832
    Joined May 9, 2011
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    If you need any Garrett, Borg Warner, Forced Performance, Precision, TiAL or Xona Rotor Turbos let me know, we are dealers for all of em ;) and if you need a manifold we got you covered as well! we are here for the DSM community :rocks:
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Drag Race Build

    11.128 @ 132.5 MPH
    Loading...
    Dan Rittner and 19gsx91 like this.
  9. JDT

    JDT Proven Member

    341
    51
    Joined Apr 23, 2010
    DSM, California
    What about HX35? The HY is difficult to find for sale and I don’t really want to buy it used and wait for it to be rebuilt.

    From what I’ve seen the HX35 spools very quick as well and I can find that brand new for $700, even the HX40 is readily available and I wouldn’t have to buy a separate turbine housing after the fact.

    I really like BW units but they’re looking like they spool slower than a Holset and have really big comp housings that might not fit between the head and radiator support.
     
    My DSM:
    JDT 1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    Loading...
  10. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

    12,704
    689
    Joined Dec 13, 2005
    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    In a T3 housing, the HX will reach full boost 300-400rpms later than the HY (assuming you're not spending $1200 on a small-runner twin-scroll manifold) and has no additional airflow benefit. The HX will not fit the cast manifold pictured above with any of the available housings without a spacer.

    The HY35 is optimal in the sense that you don't need to purchase an additional turbine housing, it outspools than any of the HX35 housing options available with the exception of the restrictive DSM-flanged .55, the turbine housing that comes on the turbo is designed by Holset specifically FOR that turbo instead of being adapted, it fits and works great with a $100 cast manifold, and the turbo itself is smaller overall than the HX series for clearance in tight spaces.

    There are no Borg Warner turbos in this size range that are *intended* to be used in a T3 housing....even the S200 series came from Schwitzer with a T4 housing.
     
    Loading...
  11. JDT

    JDT Proven Member

    341
    51
    Joined Apr 23, 2010
    DSM, California
    Really? I’ve seen a few members on this sub say the HX spools like a 16G. I’ll be running a custom tubular manifold in a top mount configuration and I can select any flange for it.
     
    My DSM:
    JDT 1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    Loading...
  12. turbotalon1g

    turbotalon1g Proven Member

    801
    30
    Joined Oct 19, 2005
    Blaine, Minnesota
    A friend of mine has the HY35 on his turbo dodge and that thing spools stupid fast.
    If Justin is recommending it, it's not some BS based on paper, it's real world experience.
    I'm gonna try and find that manifold. I'm either doing a T3 or T4 cast manifold.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Drag Race Build

    11.333 @ 119.94 MPH
    Loading...
    JDT likes this.
  13. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Supporting Vendor

    4,246
    862
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    The HY35 and HE351 are THE BEST street dsm turbo there is IMHO. The hy35 comes up quick and will put a heavy car 130mph traps, and the HE351 with some port work and effort put my heavy ass car in the 9's. They bolt on to a cheap cast manifold that lasts for ever, you can run stock cooling fans, and the turbo itself is durable as f***. The HE351 takes a bit of grinding on the compressor cover, but it will slide right in the turbine housing/o2 housing/manifold/oil setup that a HY35 came out of and be worth an additional 100whp if you work for it. I even used the internal waste-gate with both of them.

    I also strongly feel like with some weight reduction (3200lbs down to 2600or so)and a real dogbox 8's wouldn't be out of the question on a HE351 with a $125 billet wheel.

    I'd kill for a 10-11cm internal gate housing for a HE351. That would be such a cheap killer setup.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon N/T

    Showcar Build

    9.805 @ 144.00 MPH
    Loading...
    JusMX141 and JDT like this.
  14. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Supporting Vendor

    4,246
    862
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    A lot of people say a lot of things about a lot of things, doesn't mean any of it's true. The only HX35 that actually spooled close to a 16g was Mr. Peepers, and it really didn't make all the much more power than what some guys have gotten out of a 16g.

    Anyway a tubular top mount is the last thing you want if spool is your concern. You need as little runner volume as is possible. Top mounts are terrible, they try and help spool by increasing the engines VE at low rpm by improved scavenging, the suck part is they also kill the "pulse energy" that each exhaust pulse has, since there is so much volume for the pulse to expand into. That hard 90* right at the port isn't the best either. Also with small turbine housings the overlap needed to make a long tube top mount work can cause reversion issues.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon N/T

    Showcar Build

    9.805 @ 144.00 MPH
    Loading...
    19gsx91 and JDT like this.
  15. JDT

    JDT Proven Member

    341
    51
    Joined Apr 23, 2010
    DSM, California
    Really good info! Seems like the HY is the choice, I’m just having a hard time finding new units that aren’t knockoffs for sale. Same with the turbine housing for them, I’ll keep searching though. Thanks.

    Just one more thing for anyone still reading. Just throwing this out there but would it be a bad idea to put a bigger comp wheel on the HY? I want to run as low a boost pressure as possible and figure that might help me out a little.
     
    My DSM:
    JDT 1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    Loading...
  16. Archer Fabrications

    Archer Fabrications Supporting Vendor

    6,079
    832
    Joined May 9, 2011
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Check out goldfarb and accociates on ebay, they sell the genuine stuff
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Drag Race Build

    11.128 @ 132.5 MPH
    Loading...
    JDT likes this.
  17. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

    12,704
    689
    Joined Dec 13, 2005
    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    You're missing a key ingredient:
    Most of the posts you're seeing are from users with the .55 DSM-flanged Bullseye housing. Manifold, inlet flange type, and housing a/r changes everything.

    Honestly, if that's what you're doing then the HY really isn't going to help you much...most custom fabricators use 1.5" primaries for their top-mount manifolds which will murder spool anyway as those manifolds are built for flow and can support 72mm compressors and 800+whp. They're not built with response and street manners from a 54mm HX35 in mind. For example if you put a .82 a/r housing on a HX35 and used it on a top-mount manifold with 1.5" runners, I'd be shocked if you see 30psi before 5000rpms.
     
    Loading...
    JDT and 19gsx91 like this.
  18. 19gsx91

    19gsx91 Proven Member

    930
    263
    Joined Apr 20, 2011
    Walworth, New York
    I typed HY35 and done on this thread a few days ago and thennn got busy. I have had a 16g. both 68hta variants. and an 8 blade and 7 blade hx40 in a BEP .55 housing and now an 8 blade hx35 in a .55 BEP housing.

    In a nutshell. Spool is comparable between the 68htas and the hx40 variants.

    IN A BEP .55 HOUSING.

    my HX35 spools very much like my evoIII 16g did.. but again in a BEP .55 housing. t3 will be my next step whenever I get ambition.

    But I'm insane and apparently find swapping turbos relaxing at this late stage in my life.

    In a smaller shell. Listen to Justin. There is a reason he is one of the most respected members on this site.. although I have to say the new picture keeps screwing me up because I'm halfway through thinking "who does this mfer think he is- OH ITS JUSTIN"
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    292 whp   264 lb/ft
    Loading...
    JusMX141 and JDT like this.
  19. Archer Fabrications

    Archer Fabrications Supporting Vendor

    6,079
    832
    Joined May 9, 2011
    Scottsdale, Arizona

    Ive just gotta say. While we use 1.5” primaries as our standard configuration for the 4g63 platform in either bottom or topmount, it does not at all “murder spool”. I use sch40 which has a slightly smaller ID, and is thicker which insulates and transfers exhaust heat energy similar to that of a cast manifold, which aids in spool when comparing to most others sch10 primaries And is large enough to support up to 1600+whp.

    The Truth is that 1.5” sch piping is closer matched to the 4g63 exhaust ports then 1 1/4”. with a 4b11 the reverse is true. If anything, I’d be more prone to say, while a 1 1/4 runner will infact net you more spool, it is infact a restriction, and all in all will hurt overall performance. Similar to the effect a small AR housing on a large turbo would produce. Or a 2.5” exhaust for a turbo with a 3” outlet. But when choosing runner size, and turbine AR, it will all depend on what you want to use your setup for. There is always a trade off between spool and flow to some extent.

    Here is a visual of a 1.50 primary vs a 1.25 primary, with the headflange which is CNC port matched to the head. You can also see a volume difference in sch10 vs sch40. The same plug used in both thicknesses and sch10 falls through while 40 shows a fair big smaller ID. Most businesses which we compete with use sch10 which I would agree could hurt spool more then the thicker counterpart. B597A988-DFC2-4E93-B5E4-9604BBD15A8C.jpeg 4A823EE8-1344-40BA-94B7-AA1111346F87.jpeg 1A95ECB0-1772-4F02-8D5D-DEEFD8B98AB8.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Drag Race Build

    11.128 @ 132.5 MPH
    Loading...
    JDT likes this.
  20. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Supporting Vendor

    4,246
    862
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    Test 1.5 and 1.25 back to back same setups, and bring back the data. big manifolds hurt spool, little manifolds improve it and do not hurt power on a 6-700hp setup.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon N/T

    Showcar Build

    9.805 @ 144.00 MPH
    Loading...
    JusMX141 likes this.
  21. 19gsx91

    19gsx91 Proven Member

    930
    263
    Joined Apr 20, 2011
    Walworth, New York
    For some reason it's not letting me use quotes again... Kyle for whatever it's worth I think the point Justin was trying to go for more than anything else was that on a turbo setup like an hy/x35 a large runner top mount is overkill.. somewhat similar to put a large runner tubular manifold on a 14b.. it's not accomplishing anything as much as it's hurting spool without any benefit to flow.

    Although I do think that there is a place for manifolds, especially those works of art that you create, sometimes if the only gain is aesthetics you've gotta wonder if it's worth it
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    292 whp   264 lb/ft
    Loading...
  22. Archer Fabrications

    Archer Fabrications Supporting Vendor

    6,079
    832
    Joined May 9, 2011
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    re read what I said, 2nd paragraph line 3 & 4
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Drag Race Build

    11.128 @ 132.5 MPH
    Loading...
  23. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Supporting Vendor

    4,246
    862
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    I did read. I don't understand where the disconnect is. 1.5" header even at sched 40 will hurt spool, vs a 1.25 sch10, and will not hurt power on a setup like the OP is interested in. Runner size is dictated by rpm needs not power level. In the case of the op wanting a 500whp setup, I've yet to see one that needs enough rpm to need big primaries.

    The truth was and still is the more primary volume the less pulse energy is conserved, and the slower the spool. check out evom forums there was a guy that put together an ultra short runner t/s manifold. Prettiness, and "intuitive flow" be dammed, but it was a killer for spool.

    The other truth is your larger runners may be worse for exhaust heat loss. The added thickness doesn't slow heat transfer anywhere near as much as the added surface area speeds it up.

    Anyway, my car is going to go 8's on a 60-64mm turbo, and it won't have a 1.5" sch pipe header on it. probaby end up with something 11ga 1.75" mandrel bends, or 1.625 321 mandrel bends.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon N/T

    Showcar Build

    9.805 @ 144.00 MPH
    Loading...
  24. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

    12,704
    689
    Joined Dec 13, 2005
    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    You've built such a manifold for a HX35 user? If so, what RPM were they seeing 30psi?

    The reason people choose a 2G head vs. a 1G head is for the improvement in velocity. Up to a certain point the intake ports in a 1G head are unnecessarily large for the power level the user is looking to make...and an exhaust manifold is no different. You don't need primaries that large on a 54mm turbo being fed by a T3 flange with an ID of roughly 2.35" x 1.85".

    I've seen it happen first-hand with the FP Race manifold...folks forget that "race" exists in the title for a reason, it's not for a 14B/16G car. A friend bolted one on his 16G-powered 1G in place of a ported 2G manifold and the car suddenly no longer got on the converter at the line, lost almost a whole second on the ET and was 3mph slower at the end of a pass as a result. Went back to the ported 2G manifold and it was a 12.4x @ 112mph car again.

    Small turbos don't need big manifolds- it hurts more than it helps. Now if you were trying to do the opposite with a big T3 turbo like a Super 99, I could definitely see where the smaller runners could pose a problem due to the sheer volume of the exhaust energy...no denying that. In this case, the OP specifically noted he wanted a quick-spooling setup and I posted the HY35 on a cast manifold which is proven. Anything else adds a degree of uncertainty depending on how the manifold is built and what turbine a/r will be used.
     
    Loading...
    ErikTande and 19gsx91 like this.
  25. llxkevinxll

    llxkevinxll Proven Member

    89
    23
    Joined Jan 29, 2012
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Being on a TD06SL2 20g and ~10:1 static compression would you expect the 2G exhaust manifold to create too much back pressure to be sustainable? I am on a ported FP race manifold which works fine but if I am throwing away spool for no peak flow benefit I'd make the change back.
     
    My DSM:
    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Autocross Build

    13.06 @ 105.75 MPH
    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    16g   manual
    Loading...

Share This Page

Loading...


Log in/Register to remove this ad

Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Ace Race Parts Archer Fabrication Best Used Tires Boostin Performance ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Feal Suspension Fuel Injector Clinic Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications OHM Racing RockAuto SouthBay Fuel Injectors STM Tuned Tire Rack VR Speed Factory White Shed Speed