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2G Hello, new to dsm tuning. Can you help tune my new ride?

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bizie

Proven Member
129
3
Jul 17, 2014
hagerstown, Maryland
Finally got my first boosted car. Good old 97 gst with the 16g turbo at 16psi, 272 cams, 550 injectors, safc2 tuner, walbro 250, or is that 255? I don't know but the guy told me 250. It has a full 3" exhaust from the turbo back, it does have a cat, and it does have the ARP head studs. It has a pro-comp ultra lite air fuel ratio meter and when I stomp the gas it's right before the rich zone and often flashes green. When I am just driving normal I barley see the fuel air meter move at all and is usually in the lean zone if it does come up. Does all of this sound normal? This car also has no power steering, the seller said removing it added 10hp, LOL, I almost lost it when I heard that. I mean I could understand maybe a 3hp gain but no way 10hp, LOL. I am a motorcycle mechanic and know very little about turbo cars, any help is much appreciated.

I got the car for $3900 and it was out of tune from the 4-5k rpm range, but only in 3rd and 4th gear. Car pulls hard in all gears until 4k rpm in 3rd or 4th and looses all power. The seller told me its just 3rd and 4th gear being short and I needed to shift, I told him he's lost his mind LOL, this guy...smh... I noticed my air fuel meter going very rich at the time of the power loss. So I started reading and reading about the safc2 tuner and tried to work out the tune. By trimming more fuel away in the 4-5k rpm zone (At -33% now) I was able to get the car to pull all the way through 3rd and 4th gear. For some reason now the tune issue has jumped into the 1st gear where it was not before. Its losing power at about the 3k rpm in first gear only but more so when the engine is cold. I have the tune so good for 3rd gear I am reluctant to mess with it anymore. Also, the 1st gear seems to pull hard once I've been driving for a while and every things nice and hot but when I first start the car pull out of my road I stomp first gear and lose power at 3k rpm. I'm not sure if this is normal for a supped up turbo car or not.

My safc2 Hithrottle settings are as follows, 1000rpm @ -12%, 1600@ -16, 2200 @ -20% 2800 @ -27%, 3400 @ -28%, 4000 @ -33%, 4600 @ -37%, 5200 @ -38%, 5800 @ -38%, 6400 @ -39%, 7000 @ -40, 7600 @ -43%. Do these numbers sound okay for the mods I have? It really seems to pull great for the most part.

I'm from Hagerstown MD and everywhere I call for a dyno tune turns me down when I say I use the safc2 tuner. I don't know why they would since ignorant old me can even make improvements but its still not perfect and I've been slamming 3rd gear around hear for the past two days straight. I really don't want to slam 1st around here since it peels wheels every time.

Can someone help me tune this thing with the equipment that is currently installed? Do I need to buy a fuel pressure regulator? A person I talked to said he has a 450hp eclipse with out one and it isn't 100% necessary. Does anyone know where I can get a dyno tune around here? I think I know where they get the name tuner cars... LOL all day tuning.
 
Like synthetek said. Whith that fuel pump you neef fpr thats why running so rich. Is that fuel pump rewired. Wheres wide band. Sensor located and when was it installed.
 
That meter he has is not a wideband. It's a blinky light air fuel that doesn't really tell you much accurate information.
 
I was thinking of getting a regulator but when I buy things I like to get good stuff (expensive) not the cheap route, I've had many cheap part failures so that puts me at like 300 for the AEM fuel pressure regulator and fuel rail. I think the rail would also help with the larger injectors. Anyone have larger fuel rail with injectors?

I'm not sure about fuel sensor or pump rewired. There is no wideband and I'm not really aware what they do. Another local guy here in MD told me to get one to help get the fuel/air mixture perfect? I just got this car four days ago, I have only done a oil change. I could suspect the previous owner knew very little about this car since the title transfer was two months ago and it seems the valve cover gasket was installed incorrectly. I think this because the plug wire seal seems pinched on cylinder 4, oil builds up on top of the valve cover, and I can see it on the hood above that cylinder. I know how a improper sequence of tightening bolts can cause the gasket to get pinched, I suspect this to be the issue here.

I did change the oil yesterday and noticed some oil around the turbo. I think it is referred to as the turbo feed line or return line? Is this a sign of a problem or is there normally a small amount of oil residue around these lines? There is no oil spots under the car after its sitting. I also notices a small amount of dried coolant residue around the water pump area.

All of these leaks are minute but they're still present. I'm thinking; install the valve cover gasket, water pump seal, fuel rail & regulator, add a electric power steering system since I did read something about 8.5hp gain on a civic from removing the power steering pulley system, that's nuts. Now I don't want the pulley system. And should I get a wideband? Do they help that much? I mean that's another $300 for a NYE motorsports wideband. We're talking easily over a G listed right there, darn; there goes my vr6 turbo install money.

Thanks again guys for all your advice, I appreciate all and any input!
 
I think the rail would also help with the larger injectors. Anyone have larger fuel rail with injectors?
Stock rail is more than adequate.

oil builds up on top of the valve cover, and I can see it on the hood above that cylinder.
Valve cover is cracked at one of the inner bolt holes. This is a very common issue.

And should I get a wideband? Do they help that much?
Yes and yes. If you plan on doing any serious tuning, you'll need a wideband. However, I suggest you ditch that pos safc and get a real tuning solution, like ecmlink.
Skip the afpr and fuel rail and save up for Link and a wideband...
 
Stock rail is more than adequate.


Valve cover is cracked at one of the inner bolt holes. This is a very common issue.


Yes and yes. If you plan on doing any serious tuning, you'll need a wideband. However, I suggest you ditch that pos safc and get a real tuning solution, like ecmlink.
Skip the afpr and fuel rail and save up for Link and a wideband...


I can see the seal where the plug wire goes into has about a 1/16" lip that creates a seal and they all look nice and round except cylinder #4, half of it is either pinched under the valve cover or just plain missing but I can specifically see where it is coming from let me try to upload a picture..

It does not seem to originate at a bolt hole imo

The one thing I like about the safc2 is I can tune while I'm driving and I don't need a big laptop in my lap. I looked up a dsmlink and its over $500 for a plug to a cpu...to me it kind of does not seem worth the cost if I can get it good with the safc2, even if it takes me twice as long I'm cool with working harder to save a few dollars. Is a cpulink easier or more accurate or just what everyone is use to so that's what they suggest?
 
Well sir you were right about the cracked valve cover. Its the inner bolt right by the suspected faulty plug seal I do think they are both leaking. It seems to be two oil spots on the hood upon closer inspection.
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And the crack. I hate crack....
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Thank you for your help
 
The ride
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A adjustable fuel pressure regulator is not always mandatory, people who scream afpr afpr generally have never made more than 250whp...I ran 11s on a 60mm turbo, 35psi, big injectors and pump with a Stock 2G regulator. The best thing you can do is general maintenance, boost leak test, ditch the afc asap.
 
i would get a wideband and tune with that . at wide open throttle try to get 11.5 afr . as far as a regulator i run a Toyota supra fuel pump and i didn't have a regulator car ran fine . when i needed more fuel i rewired it and then i ran a regulator .
 
A adjustable fuel pressure regulator is not always mandatory, people who scream afpr afpr generally have never made more than 250whp...I ran 11s on a 60mm turbo, 35psi, big injectors and pump with a Stock 2G regulator. The best thing you can do is general maintenance, boost leak test, ditch the afc asap.

How does the average joe schmo do a boost leak test in his driveway or is that something for a shop to preform?

I did just look up it on line to save someone from typing forever. A boost test seems simple with the right fabricated turbo inlet cap. Thanks guys, I will get on this.
 
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Also, recirculate your BOV. you will notice it running better as you are leaking air at Idle with that BOV and seeing rich conditions between shifts
 
Also, recirculate your BOV. you will notice it running better as you are leaking air at Idle with that BOV and seeing rich conditions between shifts
Why do most people have theirs disconnected? Is the only reason to disconnect it to make it louder? I do love that sound and would hate to stop it? Should I buy a different BOV specifically designed to not recirculate? Is it best to always recirculate a BOV?

Thanks for your help!
 
Yes, so they can hear it. Although, you have a hard intake so you will hear it anyways. If you have a gm-Maf and translator or ECMLink, then you can put the BOV before the MAF and vent to atmosphere. Your BOV will be open at idel (you can feel air coming out of it) as I believe only Tial and HKS stay closed unless needed to open. Also, as you vent that the way it is set-up, you will go rich (and may bog or stall) because you just lost air that was being expected by the ECU so you will dump fuel.
 
Yes, so they can hear it. Although, you have a hard intake so you will hear it anyways. If you have a gm-Maf and translator or ECMLink, then you can put the BOV before the MAF and vent to atmosphere. Your BOV will be open at idel (you can feel air coming out of it) as I believe only Tial and HKS stay closed unless needed to open. Also, as you vent that the way it is set-up, you will go rich (and may bog or stall) because you just lost air that was being expected by the ECU so you will dump fuel.

Crap! Will I then need to mess with the safc2 tuner again after that?


Thanks for explaining that to me. I want the car to preform at its best. Performance over cosmetics imo and that's all a louder waste gate is, basically aesthetics.

You're being very helpful, thank you sir.
 
You won't know for sure until you get a wideband so you can monitor the AFR's. You really can't rune without one. Seat of the pants tuning isn't necessarily translatable to safe tuning.
 
You won't know for sure until you get a wideband so you can monitor the AFR's. You really can't rune without one. Seat of the pants tuning isn't necessarily translatable to safe tuning.


You sir are the shiznittle! I used one of my 1" vinyl hydroponic hoses to connect the BOV, LOL. There was another nipple on the BOV and a dangling hose near by so I mated the two, they seemed meant for each other LOL. I then went on a text ride, stomped 1st while it was cold and braaapp all the way to the redline! Shifted and the BOV sounded darn near the same to me. It was running way lean then so I adjusted the fuel percent again and now its running in the green zone when floored and pulling like a mule. I am ecstatic! Thanks a ton! This is definitely what the car needed!

I also saw a open nipple under the bov relief return (the one directly behind the MAF) sorry for my poor terminology. I suppose I am just suppose to cap or tape that off, or?

Would you like a picture or did I explain it okay?

A adjustable fuel pressure regulator is not always mandatory, people who scream afpr afpr generally have never made more than 250whp...I ran 11s on a 60mm turbo, 35psi, big injectors and pump with a Stock 2G regulator. The best thing you can do is general maintenance, boost leak test, ditch the afc asap.

Can I run with no safc2 period or do I absolutely need a tuner with the upgraded turbo, cams, injectors, and pump? I just want the car to preform at its maximum potential.

Thanks guys.
 
Thanks guys.[/QUOTE]
Just get link. Once you get use to it it will make tunning safer plus u can make the change to speed density.
Speed density? Oh man, here comes some more reading....oh great
 
You sir are the shiznittle! I used one of my 1" vinyl hydroponic hoses to connect the BOV, LOL. There was another nipple on the BOV and a dangling hose near by so I mated the two, they seemed meant for each other LOL. I then went on a text ride, stomped 1st while it was cold and braaapp all the way to the redline! Shifted and the BOV sounded darn near the same to me. It was running way lean then so I adjusted the fuel percent again and now its running in the green zone when floored and pulling like a mule. I am ecstatic! Thanks a ton! This is definitely what the car needed!

I also saw a open nipple under the bov relief return (the one directly behind the MAF) sorry for my poor terminology. I suppose I am just suppose to cap or tape that off, or?

Would you like a picture or did I explain it okay?



Can I run with no safc2 period or do I absolutely need a tuner with the upgraded turbo, cams, injectors, and pump? I just want the car to preform at its maximum potential.

Thanks guys.

Unless you wire in/install a 3g eclipse MAF you need the SAFC because you have larger than stock injectors (550's vs. 450's). As for that open nipple, definitely cap it off. You do not want any air coming in/going out after the MAF has metered the air.
 
Oh yes, oh yes, with some more tuning I now have my air-fuel meter right in the green flashing zone whenever I'm floored. I tuned the low throttle points also and while driving normal I now have the meter rolling up to right before the green flashes on my air/fuel meter. I know it was harder to do this with out the wideband but I really think its near perfect now. I'm guessing when my meter reaches the green flash that is the perfect 11.5 ratio because when that meter is in the green the car has your head against the seat, 2nd to the floor peels out as soon as boost kicks in. This thing is so fast. I've rode crotch rockets for the past 11 years and this thing is sport bike fast. I think it could be a 12sec car or better.

Thank you thomxcasey and all the other helpful members. Now to fix this cracked valve cover...
 
Thanks guys

Speed density? Oh man, here comes some more reading....oh great
Its not as bad as you may think. I stayed away from speed density for years thinking it was a pain when I finally switched over I slapped myself for not doing the switch earlier. LOL
 
I used to own a neon srt-4 tuned with a SAFC, and now I have a 1G with v3 lite.......I agree to ditch the SAFC and go with link. I am currently tuning my car and it seems that link is a bit easier to understand IMO. For me tuning wasn't the easiest thing to understand at first but there a lot of guys, forum topics, and how-to videos to aid in the tuning process. Defiantly get a wideband and try to avoid banging gears and peeling wheels while the engine is cold, you want the car to be at operation temp for tuning and ''spirited driving'' You wouldn't want to blow that 16g because of inadequate lubrication.
 
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