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Posted by Moonlight GSX, Oct 18, 2011
Newbie Forum - Beginner/newbie/general DSM modification questions. First mods, how to run 10's when you haven't run 12's yet, any tech question that doesn't fit in another tech forum.
in non-HTA form) use the same compressor wheel, so you need to decide whether your goal will require more turbine flow or if you'll prefer quicker spool. That's basically what it all boils down to.
Want to run 35psi? Have a stroker? By all means you want the GT35R turbine over the 30R.
Drive your car on the street more than at the track? You'll love the user-friendliness of the 3065.
the fp 3065 is rated at 65 lbs per min so IF you can hit 600whp that would be maxing that turbo out
I am selling mine but I can't say that I am not having severe second thoughts. This turbo has been nothing short of amazing and that's coming from someone who previously had a GT35r.
By heavy mods do you mean a full engine rebuild? Then yes, that would be the plan, to build it up from the bottom end and "over-shoot" the durability of 600 but hopefully hit around 700+ just for "safety reasons."
Getting to 600hp will be no easier on the 35r... It'll be easier to go beyond that but regardless, a 3065 at 600hp vs a 3582 at 600hp the 3065 will wipe the floor with you. (Better power band) Both are great turbos and as an owner of both, what was said earlier holds true.
The 3065 is the superior street/strip turbo and the 3582 has more potential if all out at the strip is your only goal.
Like I said, PM me if you're looking to buy one since mine is FS. You wont be able to find another setup anywhere close to what I am letting mine go for.
What people forget is that turbo efficiency is key. The idea is to to put together a setup exact to your goals. There is no point going bigger than what you want because you will suffer with lag and a less desirable (for street or track use) peak based power band. At the same time, you go too small and then you have to deal with turbo life. Fortunately the 3065 is one of the most reliable turbos for our cars. Its gone 9s and done so with a power band that starts at 3-3.5K and just keeps on pulling.
Can they both reach 600hp? Yes, depending on you plans. You stroking, E85, suspension setup to handle that power and not to mention everything else you'll need... What exactly are you plans and we can be a lot more helpful.
My motor is as follows:
2.0 6 bolt block
HKS 272 cams
1mm oversized exhaust valves
Good luck with your decision.
Are you sure about that? I'll give you a chance to edit your post after you do some research as to not make you look any more ignorant than you already do.
What is moot is how tiresome it is to get on here and converse with these internet racers who have the most ridiculous and randomly inaccurate ramblings that really make it a burden to even post in some threads. The FP3065 was one of the first semi consistent 9s turbos on the 4G63 platform. Period.
Oh what was I thinking... Yeah OP, this 65lb/min turbo is going to send you into the 9's, heck, it's only 1.5 seconds faster than TSimage. I'll go ahead and give you the benefit of the down instead of acting like a d1ck like you did.
The way I read this thread is that the op wanted 600+ hp which is NOT an easy task with the 3065. Even if you look in our member 1/4mile list you'll see that the 2 or 3 that have went into the 9's were only pushing mid 500's as far as horsepower.
And here is a link for some horsepower examples... http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dynosheets.php?do=Highest Horsepower&perpage=25&page=3
Oh, I just noticed you're selling your awesome 3065 and I'm sure that has nothing to do with your ignorant comments and how great the turbo is...
I agree 100 percent... the most I've seen secondhand with this turbo is 571awhp, now if he was fwd or on a dynojet he could reach 600... otherwise you will probably not be able to reach 600with this turbo. Yes the turbo flows 65 lbs/min, rule of thumb 10hp per lb/min. 650hp at the flywheel, account for drivetrain loss which for mt the rule of thumb is 15%... ## 650 turns into what like 550ish to the wheels.
Usable broad powerband will destroy a car that only has like a 2k rpm powerband on the street anyday...
My point about the 3065 reaching 9s was based solely on any implications through comments that it would fall short of any sort of impressive achievements in comparison to the larger 3582. In all reality they are both 10s turbos on average, capable of 9s. Neither is an out of the box 9s turbo, not many are. Arguing against the 3065 still adds nothing to the 3582.
The original comment that Just and I made still sums it up.
Street/strip = FP3065
Strip = 3582
Unlike most, I'm not talking out of my ass and this is from personal experience with both. My 35r was my favorite turbo, hands down.. Until I got this 3065. And thats coming from someone who has ran from a 14b to a S475.. From a TO4B V trim to a 4088r, From a GTK1000 to an HX52 with a bunch of filler turbos from all makes in between.
In the overall scope of what the OP wants, the 3065 is more the choice. If what he was looking for was a track car/ highway bruiser than I'd nod the 3582 all day long.
You've done a whole lot of typing and said a whole lot of nothing.
May I ask your personal experience with either turbo?
The way you should have read the thread is that the OP wants a 600whp capable turbo but wants something that will be driven regularly on the street and see limited track time. Hell I have personally ran bottom 10s with a 35r, I'm not being biased in any way shape or form. The 3065 is simply put, a better over all turbo. 600whp with the 3582 is NOT an easy feat either. You seem to keep rambling on and on about what the 3065 can and cannot do yet like I mentioned before you fail to understand that these turbos are so similar that much of what applies to one, applies to the other.
Both turbos will take a lot of effort to push to single digits, both turbos will take good tuning to reach 600whp and both turbos are great choices yet have their pros and cons.
The fact you are arguing with me about this shows your foolishness. You seem to confuse the difference between my statements and your own. Your misuse of the word "ignorance" is amusing and hypocritical. You have no experience with the turbos and are bench racing your ass off going off of he said, she said forum racing bs. This in itself breeds your ignorance. Speaking on something you have second and third hand knowledge on.
Me sellling my 3065 has nothing to do with it. I have an inbox full of request and one of em being from a guy in this thread who seems to be pushing the 3582 opposed to the 3065. . (You know who you are...)
Bottom line is that when you take into context what the OP wants, the argument is pretty much concluded on its own. Why keep showing your ass and posting garbble for no gain and absolutely zero beneficial first hand experience or information?
I'll restate my points-
Having owned BOTH turbos I have found the following to be accurate.
-The 3065 will be far superior on the street. Boost recovery is unmatched in comparison to the 3582 and spool in it self is only a small part of the differences.
-The 3582 is a beast of a top end mid frame turbo, albeit old technology this turbo is excellent for those who will see plenty of track time where they can take full advantage of the 3582s power band and rev past 8500rpms regularly.
-Both turbos are very reliable.
-Both turbos will meet the OPs goal in one way or another
At the end of the day, if this isn't a track car, he will regret picking the 3582 over the 3065.
Although, of the 2Gs, I saw one 597hp, the other two were 647 and 682 whp but had the 3582HTA.
The HTA35r is a whole different beast, its expensive as sin but man oh man can that baby spool. On the flip side FP makes a 82 wheel upgrade for the 3065, and you guessed it, it blows the 3582 out of the water in spool and similarly tot he 3065 vs 3582 it is a matter of spool vs top end albeit the HTA 3082 is more turbo than a majority could want.
In the scheme of things, most who say they want 600whp don't yet understand the concept of driving a vehicle with that kind of power... 600whp is usually the magic number to run single digits while having a consistent mid 10s vehicle. (yes there are many exceptions to that rule) That alone will keep you busy for a long while.
Its a great street turbo. On my 2.3 it makes you feel like you're driving a 16g. Step on the pedal and response is near instantaneous. My biggest appreciation for the turbo comes from inbetween shifts. TheDBB FP3065 has incredible boost recovery that rivaled earlier billet wheel counter parts.
May I ask your goals?
I think you should counter all your "information" with at least donating to the site... Someone should get paid for watching you.
OP, watch who you take advice from or you'll end up having to buy things twice. If you did decide to go stroker you could get a larger turbo that will accomplish your goals and you won't have to own all of FP's line.
There is a huge difference between 571 and 600+hp and depending on who's dyno you were looking at can make a big difference. IE, a shop like STM or English Racing will be able to squeeze more out of any setup than the most of us.
Huh... didn't see the rest of that but for now I guess I'm setting my goals "high" so that I have something to look forward to-ish. But 600 is kinda what I'm looking for, but as the "Newbie" forum says - "how to run 10's when you haven't run 12's yet." Not exactly what I'm looking for but would be nice. Although this 3082 I haven't seen it on FP or am I looking in the wrong spot?
I can understand that 571 and 600 are different but, if I fall short of 571 it's better than what I think I have now, even then I don't know what I have know other than a crappy setup that was done by someone who apparently didn't know what they were doing in the first place... *sigh* for now I guess the 3065 is a "starting point." Would I be wrong for saying so?
I do highly recommend going stroker, I know I'll never go back. My FPRed flows like a dream and is very streetable. There are a couple things I'll be changing either this or next winter but for the most part I'm happy with everything in the car which is a plus.
Here is what Lucas did with a FP306. Mind you this is a very BASIC STREET CAR higher comp but FP2 cams, basic JMF intake manifolds, wallys etc.... Another reason why I laugh so much at the idea that you need a tin can tube chassis to reach your goals. Some good fuel and a good tune and you can have some fun. Both turbos will require this regardless-
Rob Hansons English Racing built 619WHP FP3065 1g - YouTube
V8 Smoking Eclipse GSX 9.6@144 Emeraldes Towing sponsered Forced Performance FP3065 Turbo - YouTube
It makes more power now but must say its quite impressive.
Take the advise given by everyone in here and make a decision based on the data, not the bickering. Is your build based on the magic 600 whp goal or are you looking for an area under the curve build?
Your turbo decision is going to based on that very question, from the experiences that are being posted it seems to be a struggle between making 600 whp and actually having an area under the curve. I think you will find that an area under the curve build will be your best bet if you are a street/strip guy. Avoid trying to "hit" a certain hp unless that is your entire goal. Focus more on area under the curve and a rough hp number if you want a good street car.
Everyone is going to have an opinion, ultimately, it is going to come down to what YOU want out of the car. As for the different turbo combos, do you understand the naming schemes Garrett uses for their turbos / how FP renames them? You may consider looking at TurboByGarrett.com - GT Basics / Nomenclature and then reading about the individual turbos FP produces.
It is also worthy of note that FP can really mix and match a lot of different setups if you have the money, for example: I am considering a FP 3065 but I would like to go for an HTA variant for more spool, they offer an HTA upgrade for the garrett 30xx turbos as well as the garrett 35xx, its only a upgrade to the inducer of your turbo, no change to the exducer. If you know the naming scheme of the garrett family, you can make your decisions based on the science, and not the he said she said. Look at the dynos and look for peoples questions / answers regaurding different combinations.
With all that said, carry on gentlemen, I only mean to try and help with this discussion, besides, Im only rocking an Evo 3 16g...
No most don't go through different turbos because they CAN'T.. I've ran the 3582 we are talking about FIRST and CURRENTLY run the 3065 yet I said the 3065 is the better turbo so if by doing it right the first that would mean I should have gotten the 3065 to begin with by your own logic?
You need to go play in the sand box. My experience with other turbos and various motor setups mean I have a first hand ability to compare and contrast a 2.0 vs a 2.3 vs a 2.1 v a 2.4 etc etc. Same with turbos.
Its funny you should talk about adding something to the site.. Let me know when you even have the experience to do so.
You don't get it. The car is a street car first and foremost. That is more important than a random dyno number... You can slap a 600whp turbo on a different dyno and it only make 530whp. Dynos are for tuning. When people have goals they realistically should evolve around track times and mannerisms. OP wants 600whp, ok great, I can think of a few turbos better than a 3582 or a 3065 at accomplishing that for less money... So I have to use my brain and dig further when the OP says-
So obviously street mannerisms and spool exceed the want of a 6--whp dyno slip at the same time the term 600hp opposed simply to whp then makes the 3065 the OBVIOUS winner. 600hp no sweat and great spool and street fun is what makes the turbo what it is.
If the OP listened to you phunny, after all these years he still wouldn't have accomplished anything or done anything worth while...
So you can take the advice of me, who has ran the 2 turbos mentioned as well as Jusmx141 who is the residential appointed turbo guru. OR Doug Phunny over there, the bench racing extraordinaire. I'm not trying to make it a pissing match but if he feels the need to challenge everything I say, so beit. I get it, you're in it too deep and gotta keep digging, I understand. Pride is a mofo/