2G Fp hta green failure

Posted by fabian95tsi, Mar 20, 2017 at 5:29 PM
Turbo System Tech - 4G63 turbos, Intercooling, Boost Control, Wastegates, etc.

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  1. fabian95tsi

    fabian95tsi Proven Member

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    Hello fellow tuners and boost heads, I come to you guys for a little input from the guys that have been in the game a long time.

    Back in 2013 I had purchased my fp hta green, fp race manifold, fp feed line, fp inline filter (red), fp blue drain line all at the same time. Now I did not use this turbo until the I had gathered all my parts that I needed, ecu, fuel setup etc. Well long story short my stock 7bolt took a dump at 500miles, just locked up end of story. I had purchased a built motor from a member her with 0 miles. Got everything swapped over, installed all my parts off from the previous motor, fired her up, changed the oil, broke in the motor by going on some highway cruises and letting the motor decelerate on its own, changed the oil again at about 50miles, then at 500miles, 1000 miles and then once again at 3000 miles. I've been running Valvoline vr1 1030. Each time I would pull the inline filter and inspect it for any debris...none at all.

    The turbo is fed off the oil filter housing as recommended by fp and the filter is right off the ofh. Now I got my car tuned and at that time I noticed a tiny bit of smoke at idle, and it wouldn't smoke all the idle, kind of intermittent...came time to get the car tuned on 91 pump and e85. Well let me tell you guys this turbo performs beautifully, at 25psi on e85 I would log 49lbmin at 6700 and no sign of if stopping, maybe due to the jmf race manifold and fp2s. But I really really loved this turbo. It spooled plenty fast to be very fun driving around and I honestly say I was ready for 30psi...then my clutch goes... Fast forward to about 8000k miles.. I have 8000 on the motor, tre trans, and about 8500 on the turbo, Injectors, and anything exhaust related.

    Well that smoking came back with a vengeance..at first it was still intermittent but it would definitely smoke enough to make you want to drive the car off a cliff...but it would only smoke at idle and never under boost. So I started messaging and reading and came to a conclusion that I possibly have a valve seal going bad. Or so I thought. I went ahead and did a compression test 160 on all 4 cylinders, leak down showed 10% across the board. So at least my motor is healthy. Up to about 3 weeks ago I was driving the car and when I came to a stop, take a look behind me and my car is smoking like a freight train, it never stopped smoking just kept coming, under boost, off boost. I parked the since then. So now it's time to tear into the car, i fire her up and at around 40sec my car starts to fog up the yard with smoke.I go and check my turbo, and it has a crazy amount of side to side play and no in and out, and does look like the compressor wheel touched....now I'm thinking to myself oooook. Didn't have that when I previously checked it.

    I go and pull the turbo and the o2 housing, turbine housing are soaked in oil. My exhaust ports have a lot of carbon build up but no real trace of oil. So I guess my problem was obviously my 8500 mile fp green..so I do what anyone would do, email the company I purchased my unit from. Now I didn't really expect them to even take the time being that I've had the turbo since 2013, but I told them what had happened and it only has 8500miles. We've exchanged a few emails. They mentioned they would need to look at the turbo to see what happened, I had thanked them for even considering to help me out, but then came a few emails that I have to share with you guys and get some opinions.

    I asked fp that if there was anything they could do and if it is something they may warranty if I could possibly upgrade to a hta red. The weekend past and I finally got a response. They asked me if my catch can setup had a vacuum source... I'm over here like no. I run mine like almost every other setup...2 lines to the catch can from the valve cover. Here is their response...I've attached a screenshot of a email they sent me. So what do you guys think...I don't want to bash on them, but I did follow everything they said, bought everything they recommended but I really just wanted a simple yes we'll help you out or no. I'm possibly going to look into a either a Holset turbo and t3 setup unless they help me out.

    1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg Screenshot_20170320-161738.png
     
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  2. tunernewb92

    tunernewb92 Proven Member

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    The PCV system in this car is super wonky to begin with and temperamental. It is set up for a vacuum source. read here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/the-4g63t-pcv-system.366890/

    That being said, I am assuming they are arguing that its not properly pulling the bad mixture out which means that the oil is "contaminated". However, I don't feel like this would have negative wear on the turbo personally.
     
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  3. gsxeclipse102

    gsxeclipse102 Proven Member

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    Whats your oil pressure? I had similar problems with my fp green. Had to run a restrictor from the high pressure and thick oil. Also switching to 2g oem drain helped. Its bigger then the fp blue line. Catch can debate is endless
     
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  4. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Proven Member

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    Yeah, that's a cop out. Unless your motor is junk and you only have 1 3/8 breather hose the pcv is not the issue.

    I would love to see the pcv setup that actually pulls a vacuum on the crankcase on these cars. Especially at boost. I've never ran a real pvc system, just 2 hoses into a jug. Had one turbo smoke just a touch at idle. It was a bad turbine seal.
     
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  5. fabian95tsi

    fabian95tsi Proven Member

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    I've never got around to installing my oil pressure gauge, so I read off the factory pos, but the balance shafts are removed so that may answer it's probably a little high. The fp red inline filter also acts as a .125" restrictor, their recommendation. In all my years in the honda game I've never ran a catch can with a vacuum source or restrictor on any ofc the shelf Garrett turbo I've ever ran. I still have my 50trim garret at 30k miles with minimal shaft play LOL. I don't expect anything free but considering I have under 10k idk. I would hope they would help...maybe Justin will chime in.
     
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  6. Operate

    Operate Proven Member

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    Did you assemble the engine yourself and replace the valve stem seals? this would fill the turbine/O2 housing with oil as well, very similiar to a blown turbo, I have experienced intermittent smoke that progressively got worse depending on oil building up in the head getting past the valve stem seals and into the combustion chambers. Sometimes it would smoke, sometimes it would not it depended on how I drove it until eventually oil was dumping past the valve stem seals, and a compression test would not exactly pin point leaky valve stem seals. It is not uncommon for people to "build" engines and not replace things like valve stem seals etc.. also you said the turbine housing was covered in oil is the oil burning off of the exterior of the turbine housing? The middle exhaust manifold stud can leak oil that will run down the manifold,turbine,exhaust etc. if rtv was not used on that stud.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017 at 7:21 PM
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  7. gsxeclipse102

    gsxeclipse102 Proven Member

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    Justin is the one who suggested i try a restrictor. .075 i believe it was. I know countless people with very high hp builds not running a vacuum source on there catch cans. Like i said its a debate that goes round and round.
     
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  8. fabian95tsi

    fabian95tsi Proven Member

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    The motor when purchased had zero miles, I have an invoice for everything that was replaced, now the motor did sit for a yr before it being installed and when I went in to install my cams the while top end still had oil on all the cam journals, lifters, etc. I was prepared to pull the head because I really thought I had a valve seal problem..but as I pulled the downpipe off a few days ago the dp gasket fell out covered in oil. There is absolutely no sign of oil in my fp manifold, or the valves..just some gunky crap on top of the ports which I think is contributed from running e85. Not sure on that. I pulled the turbine housing off and the back side of the turbine wheel was dripping, but nothing in the manifold itself. Which I would think if the seals were leaking that bad the manifold should also be wet right?
     
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  9. fabian95tsi

    fabian95tsi Proven Member

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    I am still prepared to pull the head if I need to but, seeing as how my green looks I want to start there first, before tearing into a possible perfect working motor. Sucks too because it was such a fun turbo. I really loved it, all I wanted from them was to see if there was anything they would do for me, rebuild, replace, discount on a upgrade. I followed everything they recommend just don't see why it failed at such low miles, and I really dont want to waste money on shipping, or whatever they do when I could use that towards a replacement or something, Like a holset, garrett or something custom.
     
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  10. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    I agree 100%...even has their inline filter so there's zero chance of oil contamination even if the engine were junk. Sounds to me like a way to cover their "guarantee" that the turbo will never fail as a result of oil contamination...well it was getting plenty of clean oil, so the next-best reason it could've failed MUST have been a PCV issue, right? :|

    Even the best PCV system in the world isn't going to make shaft play bad enough to allow the compressor wheel to hit the cover go away.
     
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