EVO3 16g dyno results

Posted by pboglio, Mar 23, 2010
Dyno Talk - For all the DSM dyno queens. Discuss dyno results here. For tuning discussions, use the Tuning Forum.

  1. pboglio

    pboglio Proven Member

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    Palos Heights, Illinois
    Here's my little contribution to the EVO3 16g world.

    Obviously the pulls were SAE corrected, but it was a nice 65* morning. My ECMLink software predicted 384 w.h.p. and 390 w.h.p. a week earlier on an identical tune. The AMS dyno recorded a 3-way average of 384.3 w.h.p. So what I've been saying for years that DSMLink's h.p. calculator is as good as any dyno, and extremely close to a dynojet readout.

    The relevant mods are: EVO3 16g (minor porting to remove exhaust ring step), shimmed wastegate actuator, HKS EVC boost controller, FP race exhaust manifold, 2g ported 02 housing, 2.5" downpipe/testpipe, 3" thermal catback with 2.25" neckdown, 660cc fuel inj., Denso 150 Lph fuel pump rewired, HKS 264 cams, EVO3 ported intake manifold, 63mm 1g t-body, FP 4" compressor intake pipe, 2" j-pipe, 23"x10"x3" extruded core FMIC w/2.5" short run tubing, phenolic intake spacer kit, ECMLink V3 on stock 2g MAF, ARP 11mm headstuds, etc. Stock head, stock motor.

    Basically the setup other than the boost being turned up and high octane fuel is my street setup. No funky dropping of the downpipe or pulling the airfilter off or jacking the timing up to insane levels.

    The tune was basically set at about 12.3-12.7:1 A/F ratio and peak timing was 21* above 6000 rpms. Boost was 30 psi more or less in the midrange, dropping to about 20-21 psi at 7000 rpms. I didn't capture an ECMLink datalog but the car is dead consistent and the last street pull I made on high octane the car was seeing about 40 lb/min at 6000 rpms, 41 lb/min at 7000 rpms. Fuel was 5 gallons of 93 octane, 5 gallons of 118 octane Xylene, and 2 bottles of Lucas race octane booster.

    I'd have liked to crack 400 w.h.p., but given the mods I had it wasn't going to happen and I kind of expected that.

    My goal is 460 w.h.p. and I think its possible with alot of work and the mods listed below. My strategy is a little different then most guys. I personally don't care about big midrange numbers, only my power peak. This means for the most part I can leave the sub 5500 rpm tune pretty conservative. It also means I don't need huge boost to do it, simply "holding" as much boost to redline is sufficient to pull a good number. Future mods to achieve that goal:

    1) Clock 16g compressor cover, weld 2.5" outlet elbow and port compressor inlet and outlet. Also eliminate 2" j-pipe.
    2) 2.5" recirculated external wastegated 02 housing
    3) Tial 38mm external wastegate
    4) Speed density via ECMLink and eliminate 2g MAF
    5) Install Beehive springs and Kelford 272 cams with cam gears
    6) 3" downpipe and cutoff 2.25" neckdown on catback
    7) E85 conversion with fuel pressure regulator, 255 walbro fuel pump, 1150 cc fuel injectors.
    8) Bump high rpm timing up from 21* to 23*.

    Attached Files:

    #1
  2. rampridersrider

    rampridersrider Proven Member

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    Wow! I'm impressed man. Thats one helluva power curve also. Props on your car, not a whole lot of mods just utilizing what you have and giving it a good tune sure goes a long way. Congrats and good luck with your future goals.

    Now get it to the track and give us some trap speed numbers.
    #2
  3. pboglio

    pboglio Proven Member

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    Thanks. I didn't get a chance to tune it on the dyno, so what I came in with is what I left with. I was tempted to push the timing from 21* to 23*, but for the extra ~6 w.h.p. it wasn't worth it.

    AMS has a pretty nice facility. Saw a few Nissan GTR's there, very cool.

    I should have shot a video. Car was kinda boring in the low rpm band but once it got over 5000 rpms and came on "cam", it was pretty cool to see the car going ballistic to redline.
    #3
  4. habitatguy187

    habitatguy187 Proven Member

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    Congrats! Nice to know that Link's estimates are pretty dead on. Also would like to see what it would do without an airfilter, then what it would do with an open o2 housing. Can't wait to see what happens with a full 3" exhaust either.
    #4
  5. pboglio

    pboglio Proven Member

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    Yeah, I'm going to say DSMLink is the way to go for simulated dyno runs. I got sick and tired of arguing with people about DSMLink h.p. estimates. So I had to know for certain, now I do I guess :D AMS charges $105 for 3 dyno pulls with wideband, which is relatively cheap. Tuning sessions where $245 per hour which was too rich for my blood but for a race car probably would be invaluable.

    Whatever I dyno with is going to be a streetable setup, so probably no airfilter or exhaust removal. From my past experiences with the HKS VPC on my car is that removing the 2g MAF adds about 15-20 h.p. I didn't run it on the EVO3 16g cause my HKS map sensor flakes out at anything over 28 psi and I couldn't risk the motor. Now that I've got speed density built into ECMLink, I think that is going to be the way to go for big power.
    #5
  6. romeen

    romeen DSM Wiseman

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    Great work on the tune Gene! :thumb:

    I'm especially glad to see this because my setup is going to be fairly similar to yours :D.
    #6
  7. pboglio

    pboglio Proven Member

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    ^^^Thanks Romeen. What kind of mods are you planning?

    On a side note, I've been helping my buddy with his EVO 9 and that car is on track to crack 400 w.h.p. on pump gas, the potential is amazing on those cars. We tightened up the adjustable rod on the wastegate arm, after much convincing from myself, and the thing picked up from 344 wheel torque to 377 wheel torque, simulated on ECU flash or whatever they use which seemed pretty accurate. He's also dynoed at AMS as a baseline check against the software h.p. simulator and they are very close. The thing doesn't even have cams yet which is even more impressive. At this point, I can't let my neighbor outgun me on an EVO turbo, so that is my motivation to finish up the mods once and for all.
    #7
  8. iugrad92turbo

    iugrad92turbo Proven Member

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    Thats sweet i met some guys at ams a while ago they seem great, nice pulls on that turbo.
    #8
  9. romeen

    romeen DSM Wiseman

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    Like you I have the E316G with the step ported out of turbine housing, 2.5" to 3" exhaust w/o cat, electronic boost controller (Blitz), 2" j-pipe, rewired Denso 150. This is on a stock 6 bolt bottom end.

    I have HKS 264/264 sitting here and ready to be installed along with EVO springs/retainers. (the retainers are ridiculously light :hellyeah:).

    I only have 550cc injectors that I will be running at 50psi BFP. I have meth injection which will hopefully be enough to compensate for the slightly undersized injectors.

    The main difference in my setup will be a Cyclone IM (rpm activated), HRC SMIC, and my '99 flashed ECU.
    #9
  10. pboglio

    pboglio Proven Member

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    Yeah, your setup is really close to mine except for the intercooler. One of my best mods was the 264 cams. Looks like your setup is for maximum response?
    How are you tying in the rpm signal to the intake manifold actuator?
    #10
  11. romeen

    romeen DSM Wiseman

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    Yeah, response and a wide power band is what I want.

    I have a rpm activated switch which will activate a solenoid to control the vacuum signal to the IM actuator.
    #11
  12. proteusx301

    proteusx301 Proven Member

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    Excellent work! Very similar build to mine too. Nice to see that the goal is achievable with similar mods. Keep up the nice work and enjoy.
    #12
  13. camfast

    camfast Proven Member

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    Good numbers...congratulations!

    I think you will really like e85 once you make the change. For me it was night and day difference over pump and not to mention it loves timing. You will have no problem running a few degrees more up top.
    #13
  14. toofast82

    toofast82 Proven Member

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    Congrats on the numbers! Pretty impressive to see how close Link's dyno compares.
    What are your plans to get the E3 to hold more boost at redline? From my experience, the external gate won't help the boost dropoff with cams.
    Does EcmLink have a Wastegate Duty Cycle table to control boost? You could try a boost solenoid that blocks air from the wastegate entirely instead of a bleed type
    #14
  15. Red97Eclipseboy

    Red97Eclipseboy Proven Member

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    Excellent numbers!

    I couldn't disagree with that part enough. I just went to a Tial 38 this year and it holds boost like a rock up top. Night & day difference.
    #15
  16. pboglio

    pboglio Proven Member

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    I'm going to post here each and every mod I'm going to try next, the ones I've already listed. I'll baseline using ECMLink, then under the same operating conditions, same stretch of road, on the same day, install the mod and post the ECMLink estimated dyno results. With actual dyno pulls being $105 a crack, it just isn't cost effective to do it for every mod. At the end when I see I've reached my goal, the car will go back on the AMS dyno for validation purposes.

    Hopefully this will provide some useful data for guys who are already around my stage of modification. I have a few ideas on the turbo, bunch of stuff I've researched here, things the WRC teams have done, and things done in the industrial compressor/turbine field.
    #16
  17. DSMunknown

    DSMunknown Proven Member

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    That's a beautiful curve. :thumb: Just getting rid of the MAF is gonna bump the HP level significantly. Bout time you got on an actual dyno and confirmed your findings.

    And here's a "Hell yeah!" to clocking the 16G. Hell yeah! :cool:
    #17
  18. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Supporting Member

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    Reggie, If you started moving more than ~28lb/min lf air, you would notice your boost fall off up top.

    Pboglio, that curve looks nice, but you got a long way to go. That seems to be a lot of mods to only be 50hp over what I made with a Dead China 16g, a frontmount, and 720's. Hell I made damn near 300whp on 450's and E85.
    #18
  19. toofast82

    toofast82 Proven Member

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    Mine held the 25psi on pump I was running like a rock on stock cams. Once I swapped in the hks 264/272s, it would fall off to like 20-21psi. Power would not fall off though!

    It comes down to the engines increased airflow requirements to maintain a certain psi at a given rpm, and the b/e316gs compressor has a hard time keeping up with anything above 20-22psi with cams.
    #19
  20. Red97Eclipseboy

    Red97Eclipseboy Proven Member

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    I hear you. If you make it to some meets this year, I'll show you.
    #20
  21. matthewdesigns

    matthewdesigns Supporting Vendor

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    Great numbers! And the smooth shape of the curve is pretty impressive for a 16g. Even with cams my dyno graph still has a near-vertical line at 4000rpm. I'm pretty sure my SMIC is the bottleneck creating that issue with my car, as that's the biggest difference b/t our intake setups (I don't think the 2.5" piping is much of an advantage over my 2.25" at these HP numbers).

    And do you really think the stock MAS is hiding 15-20whp? It'll be interesting to see what the difference is once you go SD. If you make no other change at that step, by all means post up the before and after numbers.

    Edit: forgot to add that I'm running a clocked comp housing with a 90* welded on...points out towards the passenger side since I'm on the Dejon SMIC. I don't have any before/after comparisons though.
    #21
  22. Boosted6

    Boosted6 Proven Member

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    Wow,great tune,uhmm come take my car and work some magic ;)
    #22
  23. pboglio

    pboglio Proven Member

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    Yes, its around 15-20 w.h.p. increase. Every time I run it I pick up 1.5-2 psi of topend boost that I can simple never get when I'm on the stock 2g maf. I also pick up about +100-200 rpm of low rpm spool improvement, and when the boost comes on, it is retarded how hard it hits.

    Right now I'm setup on the HKS VPC with a 2 bar map sensor, but its deactivated. That isn't enough for the EVO3 16g and when it sees over 29 psi spikes, the sensor will default to 12 psi reading and mess things up badly. The EVO3 16g needs a 3 bar sensor which I don't have yet, and at this point I wouldn't run speed density again unless its controlled by ECMLink since the HKS VPC starts leaning things out too much when I hook it up.

    Maybe you can send me some pics or direct be towards a link of your clocked housing, would help me out.

    Alot of it is well tested parts combinations, and making sure the a/f ratio/ignition timing/boost is where it should be. For instance, when the car isn't feeling right, I immediately do a boost leak check, then a compression test. If the compression doesn't look good, I do a leakdown test. If that doesn't look good, I do a combustion chamber cleaning and typically it brings up my #2 cylinder numbers to within spec. Then I do 1 pull and see where my 02 voltages, ignition timing values, MAF intake temps are at. A dipping 02 voltage is for sure a fuel pump not getting enough voltage or some restriction in the pickup. That automatically prompts me to hook up a fuel pressure gauge, but I haven't done that in a while since the fuel pump rewire took care of that problem.

    9 times out of 10 the ECU is messing with the timing and I have to force it to use my upgraded values. I can probably bring the car back up to spec within an hour if things don't look right with nothing but a quick ECU reset, a couple cranks on the intercooler hose clamps, and some combustion chamber cleaning. Thats how I do it. I already have the hard parts I have relentlessly tested that I'm positive are solid, any other deviations are something the ECU is doing or a boost leak.

    On tuning the A/F ratio, I believe 99% of it is trial and error and I am of the school of thought of "tuning for knock" on pump gas. On race gas this does not work cause you can go hyper lean and all that will happen is you will lose massive power. So you need to creep up on the A/F ratio until power starts dropping off on race gas. On ignition timing I have a hard limit of 23* ignition timing since I've found my h.p. values drop off past that and it is in the dangerous zone even on race gas. Some people make a science of it, but I'm not that sophisticated in my WOT ECU tuning since in the end all you can do is tune for max power anyways, and for that you need some serious time on a dyno.
    #23
  24. matthewdesigns

    matthewdesigns Supporting Vendor

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    Wow, I would not have really suspected such a large pressure drop through the MAS. Thanks for the info. And I'll snap a couple photos of my comp housing for you.
    #24
  25. PieEyedPiper

    PieEyedPiper DSM Wiseman

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    I'm impressed you're not running out of fuel with the Denso 150lph.
    Excellent graph. Can't wait for the updates.
    #25

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