2G Evo LSD in 2g pumpkin with open diff swap, axle compatibility?

Posted by Talyn, Dec 14, 2017

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  1. Talyn

    Talyn Proven Member

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    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    So I'm currently having an EVO 8 clutch/plate LSD installed into my previously open diff pumpkin. I got my information about the swap from this thread here:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/evo-rear-lsd-in-a-1g-2g-housing.467544/

    According to the thread, the non LSD 2g axles I already have should work. However on TMZ's site they recommend Evo 8/9 axle cups. And I spoke to them on the phone today about ordering a shim kit and axle seals, and he mentioned that the 2g non LSD axles are really close, but not quite the same length as Evo cups, and as a result the circlip won't lock them into place, which is exactly what the writeup on it warns about happening with the incorrect axles, however that writeup says that my axles will work. I don't want to take any chances, but I don't want to spend money on parts I already have either. Can anybody confirm who is correct? And or have a set of non LSD 2g and LSD Evo axle cups on hand they could measure? The guy at TMZ seemed pretty damn knowledgeable and I'm hesitant to doubt him, but it seems like kchaazz knew his stuff too. I'd rather error on the side of caution, but maybe somebody can verify things for me.
     

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  2. twicks69

    twicks69 DSM Wiseman

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    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Like I said on the phone, the Evo rear axle cups have a slightly longer stub length that properly engages and locks the circlips in to the pinion gears. The DSM Non-LSD axles are near the same length, but they are shorter; if I recall, they were around 3/8" or so shorter than the Evo axle stub length that engages the differential. I ran 2G Non-LSD axle cups in one for about a season of racing; I have a picture below of what they looked like, and you will be able to see the engagement difference I am talking about. It ended stripping the splines out of my axles which were DSS Stage 5's with 2G DSM non-LSD cups. It's pretty obvious the engagement area difference i'm talking about.

    Go and get the ones on Ebay I told you about that were ridiculously cheap before they are all gone. Your other option are custom DSS stage 5 axles with Evo pro series 300m 6-ball CV inner cups; which are not cheap whatsoever.
     

    Attached Files:

    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Drag Race Build

    9.499 @ 155.00 MPH
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  3. ileagleracing

    ileagleracing Supporting Member

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    Montreal, QC, Canada
    I found brand new Evo 2/3 rear inner axle cups at a British website for ~800$ us shipped came with the tripod and everything, but that's a lot of dough.
    Like a few others here on tuners I bought a set of used Evo 1/2/3 inner axle cups of ebay from Thailand. $57.99 US shipped for a pair and I had them in my hands like 4 days later.
    My dif is at TRE getting the Evo 8 conversion so I haven't tried them out yet, but for that price you can't go wrong. Thought I got the last pair, but the auction still says 1 pair left.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitsubishi...ash=item41a4025246:g:klcAAOSwXGtZnpx6&vxp=mtr

    edit: maybe I should buy out their stock and start reselling them?
     
    My DSM:
    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Autocross Build

    313 whp   305 lb/ft
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Autocross Build

    160 whp   190 lb/ft
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  4. twicks69

    twicks69 DSM Wiseman

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    They post up the axle cups from time to time lately for about that price; but they are only going to become more difficult to find as time goes by. For that cheap i'd pick up an extra set.
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Drag Race Build

    9.499 @ 155.00 MPH
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  5. GSXbooster

    GSXbooster Proven Member

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    Tim,
    I'm not sure I've been able to find a clear answer to this one, but could I install my Evo III inner cups onto my Non-LSD axles? Or do I need to source LSD axles to use the Evo III inner cups?
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Road Race Build

    T25   manual
    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (sold)

    Road Race Build

    370.9 whp   343.8 lb/ft
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  6. twicks69

    twicks69 DSM Wiseman

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    They do work.
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Drag Race Build

    9.499 @ 155.00 MPH
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    GSXbooster likes this.
  7. Canadian_CD9A

    Canadian_CD9A Proven Member

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    There's a pair of cups on eBay for like $65 right now if anyone needs them..
     
  8. twicks69

    twicks69 DSM Wiseman

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    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Yeah I mentioned those to him as well, by phone has well in this thread I think. Like Malaysia I think on eBay as cd9a ce9a evo axle cups
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Drag Race Build

    9.499 @ 155.00 MPH
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  9. GRNDSM

    GRNDSM Moderator

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    I just picked up the "last set". Sounds like they keep "finding" more :)
     
    My DSM:
    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Autocross Build

    12.9 @ 103 MPH

    Street Build

    11.74 @ 118 MPH
    1994 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    10.123 @ 138.060 MPH
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  10. Talyn

    Talyn Proven Member

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    Bleh, I can't find any damn axle cups-and the ones you linked were actually already out of stock when I tried to get them sadly...And my diff is done now too =/
     
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  11. GRNDSM

    GRNDSM Moderator

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    Tim, take a look at my EVO3 axle from Malaysia vs. non-LSD cup from my Summit (which I am assuming the same as DSM non-LSD cup). They are identical (with regard to differential interface).

    And... they look longer than your damaged axle! Are you sure that you used non-LSD cup?
     

    Attached Files:

    My DSM:
    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Autocross Build

    12.9 @ 103 MPH

    Street Build

    11.74 @ 118 MPH
    1994 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    10.123 @ 138.060 MPH
    Loading...
  12. GRNDSM

    GRNDSM Moderator

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    Chelmsford, Massachusetts
    Another point of reference, I compared Tim's damaged axle cup to my EVO3 and non-LSD cup. His is clearly shorter AND it is missing the undercut where splines start!
    Tims vs EVO3 vs nonLSD.JPG
     
    My DSM:
    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Autocross Build

    12.9 @ 103 MPH

    Street Build

    11.74 @ 118 MPH
    1994 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    10.123 @ 138.060 MPH
    Loading...
  13. GRNDSM

    GRNDSM Moderator

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    Here is another perplexing find...

    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/2g-non-lsd-rear-axles.480375/

    An ad for non-LSD 2G axles, do you notice that happen to be different? Aren't they supposed to be same? Anyway, scaling off the photo, looks like Tim had the shorter version and the longer version is the same as EVO3 and my non-LSD cups!

    Edit: here is another set!

    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/dsm-parts-axles-2g-maf-t25-and-more.490228/
    And another:

    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/2g-heavy-duty-rear-axles-nonlsd.496009/

    And finally:

    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/identifying-inner-cv-joints-2g-rear-axles.488886/

    Clearly, (at least some) 2G non-LSD rear end uses two different sizes of axle cups and you shouldn't use the shorter one with EVO rear end.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018 at 8:40 AM
    My DSM:
    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Autocross Build

    12.9 @ 103 MPH

    Street Build

    11.74 @ 118 MPH
    1994 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    10.123 @ 138.060 MPH
    Loading...
  14. twicks69

    twicks69 DSM Wiseman

    3,011
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    Joined Mar 12, 2004
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Mine were DSS axles.
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Drag Race Build

    9.499 @ 155.00 MPH
    Loading...
  15. GRNDSM

    GRNDSM Moderator

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    Chelmsford, Massachusetts
    That explains the difference in the spline transition area (no undercut)! But they must have also must have used the shorter axle as the model for their axles!

    Getting back to the original topic, it would appear that longer non-LSD cup should work with the EVO diff.
     
    My DSM:
    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Autocross Build

    12.9 @ 103 MPH

    Street Build

    11.74 @ 118 MPH
    1994 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    10.123 @ 138.060 MPH
    Loading...
  16. Talyn

    Talyn Proven Member

    383
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    Joined Jun 10, 2012
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    GRNDSM-mind measuring the two for me if possible?
     
    My DSM:
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  17. GRNDSM

    GRNDSM Moderator

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    Joined May 16, 2002
    Chelmsford, Massachusetts
    Which measurement do you want? I already gave one above.
     
    My DSM:
    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Autocross Build

    12.9 @ 103 MPH

    Street Build

    11.74 @ 118 MPH
    1994 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    10.123 @ 138.060 MPH
    Loading...
  18. Talyn

    Talyn Proven Member

    383
    14
    Joined Jun 10, 2012
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    I didn't realize you had a measurement in that picture, which axle was that though? I measured mine at ~57.5mm. So, likely same as yours given a little room for error. I did notice from your picture that while the shaft section appears to be the same length it looks as though the actual splined part on one axle might be a little bit shorter.
     
    My DSM:
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  19. GRNDSM

    GRNDSM Moderator

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    Joined May 16, 2002
    Chelmsford, Massachusetts
    Remember, my non-LSD axles are of smaller (3 bolt) variety. Also a slight shorter spline on inner side wouldn’t make a difference, as long as you can fully insert it into the diff.
     
    My DSM:
    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Autocross Build

    12.9 @ 103 MPH

    Street Build

    11.74 @ 118 MPH
    1994 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    10.123 @ 138.060 MPH
    Loading...

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