Dynoed the 74mm - New Best 835AWHP @ 46psi!

Posted by twicks69, Jul 1, 2011
Dyno Talk - For all the DSM dyno queens. Discuss dyno results here. For tuning discussions, use the Tuning Forum.

  1. twicks69

    twicks69 DSM Wiseman

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    Thought I would share! This is the same setup since 2009.

    Quick rundown of major parts:

    *2.3L 7-bolt Groden aluminum rod 8:1 custom CP pistons with 2002 Kia Optima Crank.
    *1G unported head w/ valvetrain mods, 1mm oversize valves and bowlwork only, custom cams, Supertech dual valve springs.
    *Borg Warner S400SX3 74mm turbo with Bullseye race cover and 1.1 A/R divided T4 flange.
    *2.5" IC piping on PTE large core.
    *1G stock throttle body.
    *1350cc primary injectors on twin pumps (in-line/in-tank Walbro 255's)
    *1600cc secondary injectors on twin pumps (in-line/in-tank Walbro 255's) -- not used due to dead injector.
    *Q16 race fuel
    *AEM EMS
    *Beyond Redline SMIM
    *QM Gear-Drive twin-disk with race frictions
    *Davies Craig EP115 electric water pump with pump controller.
    *Saturn 200A alternator hard-wired.

    The car put down 835AWHP/597TQ at 46psi on 8-degrees of timing with 11.7AFR's on a dying turbo. Spoolup was around 700-900 rpm slower than normal and there is around 1/8" of shaft play and some thrust play. The secondary rail/fuel system was not used because of a dead #4 injector, so we just ran the primary fuel system to its safe limits at 88% duty cycle on a 43psi base pressure. Full boost was really slow at 6700-6800 rpm starting at 4500rpm for the pull and letting off at 8600rpm on a 9000rpm redline. Power was flat and strong from 7000-8600rpm. Torque and power were both down overall though due to the dying turbo and was around 40AWHP/40-60TQ lower on the low boost tests we did prior to this pull due to the slower spoolup and missing the peak torque curve.

    Water temperatures were fantastic with the Davies Craig EWP115 pump and pump controller on a 0.9 Bar radiator cap and no thermostat. I was running the system reverse-flow drawing the coolant through the head, then the radiator to the pump and back in to the motor. No problems, saw 170-180 degrees the whole time with the pump controller set either at 175 or 185 degrees. Super quiet and held up so far so good!


    The STP numbers were 835AWHP/597TQ and the SAE numbers were 822AWHP/590TQ.


    Here is the video:

    youtube:
    YouTube - ‪835AWHP/597TQ @ 46psi - twicks69 Tim Zimmer 7-bolt 4G63 1999 Eclipse TMZ Performance‬‏

    photobucket:
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    Here are the pictures:

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    All in all, there were several hiccups during the day like any normal dyno time. The #4 secondary injector was not firing so the first 20 pulls of dialing in the secondary injectors was a waste. I had the secondary pumps originally running continuously because in the past I had all 4 pumps feeding one fuel rail, so I wired the secondary pump relay signal into the AEM to activate them based upon boost/duty cycle to ramp in. The alternator (brand new and tested) was not charging so I ended up hard-wiring the "F" field wire directly to the battery as a temporary solution to keep the alternator charging. The drawback to doing this without an ignition signal is that when the car is turned off, the alternator will drain your battery. The electric water pump was having a bit of leakage out of one of the fittings so I will need to pull it off again and chase the threads and make sure it was 1" NPT and not 1" BSP. I have -16AN to 1" NPT fittings on it currently, and ordered up some 1" BSP fittings but they are 1" JIC male-to-male adaptor fittings so I hope they fit (I couldn't remember if the nose taper is the same degree angle for the fitting to seal properly). The brand new Stant Racing radiator cap I picked up was designed to not have an o-ring seal, little did I know this until I hit any sort of boost.... First real pull, tons of coolant (water wetter and water) everywhere as it just gushed out of the radiator cap. I pulled a radiator cap off a 1932 cadillac that they had at the shop and tossed it on. Fit perfect, fixed the problem. The turbo had ALOT of shaft play resulting in substantially slower spoolup and lower numbers. It maybe has less than 1000-2000 miles on it, maybe 50 dyno pulls and 25 or so track passes. It had noticable shaft play since new; I know it is a loose turbo when compared to a ball bearing GT CHRA on a Garrett, but damn, it is loose! Also, on the last two pulls we did, I had some noticable harmonics going on after each pull. I think I either stretched flywheel bolts or hurt the transmission, so I will have to do a teardown and check. The motor held up no problems.

    All in all, like every dyno visit, it was a long stressful day and a learning experience.

    Hope you guys enjoy the vids and the numbers!
    #1
  2. DSMReviver

    DSMReviver Proven Member

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    Congratulations! that is nice numbers man. Glad to see you back in tha game!
    #2
  3. twicks69

    twicks69 DSM Wiseman

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    Thanks! Never left, just had alot going on, and a business to maintain.

    I am going to try and do the needed maintenence to fix the current problems by July 16th. I have a race on the 17th that I am looking to attend, and hopefully will have the car retuned with the secondary injectors before the Shootout.
    #3
  4. turboglenn

    turboglenn Proven Member

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    YOu're posts about your car are always captivating in some way or antoher.. The thing i start to wonder on these really high HP peaky builds is how do you keep it in that rev range constantly enough to not fall out of the powerband horribly on a 2-3 shift?

    is it the custom gear choices making tighter ratios?
    #4
  5. 1997_GSX

    1997_GSX Proven Member

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    Great Job Tim! It's a wonder that you even have time to work on your own car with how busy you are LOL.

    Do you ever sleep? I always see you up till the wee hours of the morning.

    Oh and yeah the JIC fittings have the same 37 Degree flare as the AN fittings but are 40% weaker.


    - Luke
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014
    #5
  6. twicks69

    twicks69 DSM Wiseman

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    I use an Evo 3 1st gear, DSM double synchro 2nd gear, DSM HD 3rd/4th gears, Evo 3 5th gear in the current transmission for ratios.

    This turbo has always been slow spooling hitting full boost in the 6000-6300range because of the 1.1 A/R T4 housing and the larger Bullseye RACE compressor cover. The turbo was put together to run HIGH boost (above 50psi) to make power. Unfortunately, the thrust bearing design in it is absolute junk.

    At the track, I would have my 2-step at 7400rpm with anti-lag to 26psi on the launch, and shift at 8800-9000rpm to keep it in boost. It was doing 10.0 @ 149mph on 30psi with 3 degrees of timing, on a map making around 620-640AWHP. I should be able to do a decent 9-second pass on 200AWHP more in a lighter car.

    Weight reduction done since last visit in November 2010:
    *Power Leather Seats removed and all rear seat sections. ~90# with replacement Kevlar seat.
    *Pulled around 20# of wiring out of car.
    *Power steering deleted (pump/lines only). ~20#
    *Stereo dummy-plated (defaced the OEM stereo). 11#
    *All speakers removed now (fronts and tweeters). 10#
    *Rear spare tire well removed and sheet-metaled with 0.040" aluminum. #9-10#

    Safety added:
    *9.99 cage to 8.49 cage conversion. 30#?
    *Window net and bracketry. 4-5#.
    *Parachute, bracketry, cable and mount. #10-15#.
    #6
  7. twicks69

    twicks69 DSM Wiseman

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    I don't sleep. Pretty much the sad truth. Normally 2-4 hours a night.
    #7
  8. 1997_GSX

    1997_GSX Proven Member

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    Ouch its hard for me to go on less than 8 LOL
    #8
  9. turboglenn

    turboglenn Proven Member

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    YOu and me both.. and probably for all the same reasons. Just trying to get by and still have time to enjoy ourselves a litte
    #9
  10. TurboFritz

    TurboFritz Proven Member

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    Tim makes it look easy to maintain the kid all day till the wife takes over then spend hours and hours in the garage/ basement..... you are a pro sir, sound like a lot of work to get done in 2 weeks but hey perks of running your own business.... "doors are closed i need to fix my stuff first!!!" haha hope everything works out and you pull some strong 9 second passes this year, i will have to try to make it down to GLD one day and watch.
    #10
  11. twicks69

    twicks69 DSM Wiseman

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    Thanks Nick! Yeah, it definitely is a challenge to maintain my normal daily duties while trying to take care of customers and my own stuff! I don't know how I even found the 150+ hours in 15 days to get the car back on the road! Everything was done on the car between June 12-28th, including the entire wiring job that some of you know I had to do due to the cagework. The progress photos of that can be found on my Facebook page. I took a ton of photos along the process, and the final product.

    Tim Zimmer via Evo Phone
    #11
  12. TurboFritz

    TurboFritz Proven Member

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    Yea i hope i can assemble my car by the shootout... I was pointed out to the fact that I have a little over 500 hours to do it seeing as my nice 12 hour night shifts 7 days a week... mmmmm overtime, so i will be lossing my in between sleep in a few days to start on it.... got customer cars to get out of my shop first!!!! As you know everytime you think your done with something.... something else fails so the cars just dont ever go away for me to do my own cars.

    I hope that the sound in your trans isnt anything to major, that thing needs to run you give it so much LOVE, how can it be so mean back!!!
    #12
  13. kp116

    kp116 Proven Member

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    Congrats Tim! Glad to see it back up and running! I can't wait to see this thing on full tilt! I notice even my s366 seemed to have quite a bit of shaft play even when it was new.
    #13
  14. 99gst_racer

    99gst_racer Moderator

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    Damn! Nice numbers man. :thumb:
    #14
  15. 907dsm

    907dsm Proven Member

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    Congrats Tim those are some good numbers can't wait to see what she does at the track this year.
    #15
  16. 2gGSX

    2gGSX Proven Member

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    Tim, I thought you were running a standard S400SX turbo--is this a straight BW unit or were the internals modified by BEP?
    #16
  17. twicks69

    twicks69 DSM Wiseman

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    Tom, it is a Borg Warner 177101 S400SX3 74mm turbo on a 1.1A/R divided T4 housing. The only thing I did to it was add on the Bullseye race compressor cover for more airflow at very high pressure ratios.
    #17
  18. mebetter

    mebetter Proven Member

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    Are you going to rebuild the turbo or get a different one?
    #18
  19. twicks69

    twicks69 DSM Wiseman

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    I will send it out for rebuild after my upcoming race, but I already have two other backup turbos.

    My backup turbos are:

    *Garrett GT4088R w/ 0.85 & 0.96 A/R divided T4 housings.
    *Garrett GT4202R w/ 1.01 A/R divided T4 housing.

    I need to make one charge pipe for the 42r and a coolant line to run it. This will likely be the turbo being ran at the Shootout.

    Tim Zimmer via Evo Phone
    #19
  20. 95tsiemad

    95tsiemad Proven Member

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    What's up with the 2002 Kia optima crank.
    #20
  21. twicks69

    twicks69 DSM Wiseman

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    It is a 4G64 7-bolt 2.4L crank. Works just fine.

    Tim Zimmer via Evo Phone
    #21
  22. 400hp93talon

    400hp93talon Proven Member

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    I feel you on the 2-4 hours of sleep a night. My mission times changed so randomly that I just don't sleep until my body forces itself to shutdown for little bit. I love the dyno vid as soon as that thing hits boost it's game over!!
    #22
  23. atownturbo

    atownturbo Proven Member

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    Wow nice numbers, keep it up.
    #23
  24. DSMReviver

    DSMReviver Proven Member

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    Tim, how are you using the primary and secondary injectors? Is it running out of Q16 with 40psi?
    #24
  25. twicks69

    twicks69 DSM Wiseman

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    I am running staged injection based upon boost level with the secondaries transitioning in around 6-10psi with AEM EMS. The secondary fuel pumps (in-tank/in-line system) are also controlled by the AEM EMS by wiring in the ground wire for the secondary system relay to a low switch pin that was not used (in my case, pin 9 for EGR system was used).

    The primary injectors currently are FIC Bluemax 1350cc and the secondaries were Bosch 1600's. I will swap out the Bosch junk for a set of FIC Bluemax 1750's as they will be smoother to control on the initial ramp-in of the secondary injectors under boost.

    As for running out of fuel....The 835AWHP was done on only the 1350cc injectors and one in-tank/in-line pump combo (two pumps on one feed line) at 46psi on Q16. This was where I calculated the limitations to be at a safe duty cycle of 90% prior to tuning with a 43psi base pressure (actually 825AWHP was what I was expecting). So, my numbers were within 0.4%-1.6% target value of what I calculated based upon the correction factor (817AWHP Uncorrected, 822AWHP SAE, 835AWHP STP). At my boost levels, I was at 90psi line pressure. I am sure you could eek more out of the system as I was only on a 43psi base pressure and 46-47psi boost pressure, and the pump combo can easily handle above 120psi line pressure in my configuration on a 12-14V power supply. The secondaries were not even tuned in because we were dealing with a dead #4 injector and didn't want to waste time trouble shooting if it was clogged or if it ohmed out good or failed, so we just ran on the primaries.

    Effectively, the 1350cc injectors and twin pumps are at their safe upper limits at 825AWHP on a good electrical system. Keeping good voltage is so important with power levels and fueling.

    The 1600 secondaries alone should be able to handle around 980AWHP on gasoline with a safe duty cycle, and the FIC BlueMax 1750's should handle around 1065AWHP alone on gasoline.

    With 1350 primaries and 1750 secondaries on the quad pumps on E98 it should be able to handle around 1150-1200AWHP, while on gasoline it would be able to handle around 2000AWHP. We all know I will never run more than 1100AWHP, so it is just a large buffer of having overkill for my setup on race gas, and at the right limits on straight E98.
    #25

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