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Drive train problems

Posted by TSi-Rocket, Feb 28, 2012
Maintenance & Repairs - Oil choices, timing belt, setting timing, CV boot replacement, alternator servicing, fuse/relay checks, and other basic maintenance, repair and diagnosis discussions.

  1. TSi-Rocket

    TSi-Rocket Proven Member

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    Nortwest Ohio, Ohio
    Alright, this is my first post in 10years of driving a dsm as I have always searched and found an answer. Anyways I just purchased another awd dsm and am having a driveline problem that I cant figure out. Im running into a periodic problem, it comes and goes, it starts with a high pitched whine coming from the front of the car and develops into a violent shaking of the car, this shaking happens if the car is in or out of gear, from 60mph down to a stop. It feels like driving a car with unbalanced tires at 100mph. I pull to a stop, let the car chill for a few mins then take off again and the problem will slowing come back. The next time I drive the car it wont do it again? Ive checked trans,t-case, and rear end fluids all good. Rear end and tcase never feel warm after this happens. BUT the transmission seems abnormally hot, at least hotter than my other awd. So i jacked the car up on all 4 last night, and find that the passenger front tire is hard to spin. I put the car in gear and drive it on the stands (let it idle in gear). and the tire slowly jerks a lil. Im thinking its the front differential but when i turn the tire it will turn the rest of the drivetrain? Doesnt seem to match up with the center diff problems or viscous coupling problems I have read up on. Ive spent 2weeks searching to the ends of the internet. The transmission shifts flawlessly, nicest dsm trans i have ever shifted. While driving the car I get a vibration when veering to the right making me think wheelbearing. All the axles upon inspection seem ok. I cant imagine a wheel bearing causing this violent shaking and high pitches whine but I could be wrong
     
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  2. derektcasey

    derektcasey Proven Member

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    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Sounds like a combination of two issues (I just had the EXACT issue)

    1. Check your Carrier Bearing mounting bolts. I bet one or two are loose (I had two loose).
    2. Check your lobro for noise. They develop a "sweet spot", and a loose driveshaft will pull it out of that.

    Once you tighten the mount bolts, the noise/vibration should disappear after a mile or two of driving.
     
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  3. TSi-Rocket

    TSi-Rocket Proven Member

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    Nortwest Ohio, Ohio
    Ive had problems with the carrier bearings but it was a thumping under acceleration. Ive checked the lobro and cv's for slop, and the carrier bearings look and felt solid but i didnt put a wrench on um. My major concern is with the car on jack stands the passenger front tire seems disconnected from the rest of the drive train. Its bound up, if i turn it the opposite front tire will spin backwards which is normal, but I get no transfer through the xfer case. If i turn the driver front the passenger will not spin but i get transfer through the xfer case into the rear end. My other awd acts normal while on jack stands (i had both of them in the air right before i posted).
     
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  4. GSXftw

    GSXftw Proven Member

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    any news?? I was leaning towards CV joints but it sounds like you checked that
     
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  5. SrKegler

    SrKegler Proven Member

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    Check the brakes on that side. Sounds like the caliper is sticking.
     
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  6. TSi-Rocket

    TSi-Rocket Proven Member

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    Nortwest Ohio, Ohio
    First I should say thanks for eveyones input, dont take my reponse in a bad way. Ive been through what everyone has described on my first dsm. its been my daily driver for 10yrs purchased 165,000miles now has 240,000miles. Wheel bearings, brakes, cv's, carrier bearings, lobro joints... the list goes on, ive rebuilt the trans... I work maintenance now but have got by being a mechanic for 10years this problem is the first problem that has me baffled. Although Ive been a member here since 03 i have not posted because I have always figured out my problems. bla bla,:) my point is if i was a post nut Id be able to post somewhere besides in the newbie forum which is lame and until I tear into everything I cant say everyones advice isnt helping... im pretty sure this is something different.I was leaning on the cv's but im not getting the usual vibration when turning a corner and its periodic. If the cv is bad its a problem new to me. Well I would tear into the car like I usually do... but instead of working on my dsm and trying to find a job... im working 12hrs all week, so i dont have a lot of time. The brake could be hanging up but the car doesnt pull to the right nor would a hung up brake cause the whining or the shaking :). Unless ive completely overlooked something... this is a question for advanced tech straight up.

    Note. the rear shocks are bad, my only thought is that a combination of the problems you have all listed (althought parts dont seem bad they are not new), plus the shocks have created a harmonic note, heck even the ecu could be picking up knock from the prothane motor mounts and adding to the problem? Ive thought about this extensively... and the ecu was recapped 2years ago, and ive put a know good ecu in the car to see if this was the problem.....
     
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  7. DynastyLCD

    DynastyLCD Proven Member

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    is the center differential stock, or welded? same on viscous coupling, is it stock, welded, eliminated? also, is there any play within the bearing for the drivers side halfshaft that bolts to the block?

    i experienced some pretty uncomfortable driving when i broke the spider gears in my first center differential. i also purchased a trans that claimed to have a welded center diff, turned out to be a welded viscous coupling, which later destroyed the spider gears in the non-welded center differential, along with the crown shaft that drives the front differential (resulted in RWD only)

    could also be a worn out front differential, i've yet to break one of those though ROFL

    the hot transmission and the whine with shaking kind of makes me think about a viscous coupling issue. i mean, it acts like a clutch in a way, right?

    drain some transmission oil, inspect for signs of metal, and the silver goo, which would point towards a viscous issue. i suppose it could have a problem without leaking as well. if you have the time, i would also remove the center diff with the transmission still in the car, just to inspect and verify everything is okay. take a close look at the washers for the top and bottom gears.

    i would also recommend greasing the lobro joint for good measure if it looks alright upon inspection.

    for the $50, a set of solid driveshaft bushings is a nice upgrade over the typically worn out stock ones. plus peace of mind knowing that the carrier bearings aren't going to move anywhere.

    after all this vibration you speak of, it wouldn't hurt to check all your transmission to block bolts, and transfer case bolts as well.
     
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  8. TSi-Rocket

    TSi-Rocket Proven Member

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    Nortwest Ohio, Ohio
    I was leaning on the viscous coupling, the center diff i believe is alright as when i broke the spiders in my other car all 4 wheels turned when the car was on jack stands. I turned the boost up from stock and it felt like the clutch was slipping like crazy but im not getting the usual burnt clutch smell making me think its the viscous coupling. The clutch is stock and I know will not hold up to any mods what soever in an awd so when i replace it Im thinking I will check the viscous coupling and replace with a spare from my parts trans. Of the 4 driveshafts I have, 2 on cars and 2 extras, the one in this car is the worst, carrier bearings are shot, and the lobro is in poor shape. I need to just rebuild one of my spares and install it. Lame because I work too much to get everything I want accomplished :banghead: right now I have the car tore apart for manifold/turbo porting and machining a 34mm wastegate flapper out of 304ss and trying out an 02 dump although I will prob take it back off after I mega port a stock o2 housing.
     
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  9. Husler005 TSi

    Husler005 TSi Probationary Member

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    West Michigan, Michigan
    The problems you describe are nearly identical to ones I am having on my 92 Talon AWD 5 speed. Did you find out what was wrong with the drivetrain?

    I've replaced dam near everything on the car and still have issues. The car will vibrate under boost (light to heavy), sometimes it's pretty bad, sometimes not. What's really driving me insane is that when I jack up the back of the car to fix something or change oil, etc., it seems to reset the issue. When I return the car to the ground and drive it a few days, it doesn't vibrate, even under WOT. After about 200 miles LIKE CLOCKWORK it begins to vibrate more and more until it is nearly undrivable again. Just this morning on my way to work, it was smooth to start, got progressively worse, and finally near the end of my 15 mile commute to work, it was vibrating really bad. Seems to be worse going up hill too.

    I've been through two driveshafts, both had brand new carrier bearings, and the one I am using now has brand new Mitsubishi Ujoints and new yoke as well. I just replaced the rear subframe bushings (from BoostX), rear shocks, oils, subframe bushings, etc. Still have issues and I'm going crazy. I've been chasing this issue for over 2 years.

    The car has about 140k on the body, 15k on a rebuild stock motor. Transmission shifts like butter, but makes a chattery noise in neutral and whines a little bit in 1st and 2nd gear. 2nd gear gets the most vibration under throttle. Clutch is stock.

    ECU is brand new factory Mitsubishi. Car is lightly modded but nothing major.

    I found the front passenger wheel bearing was bad, but even after changing it, like you experienced, the passenger front tire does not move much/at all when the car is on jackstands. I had the car up to 90mph on jackstands and the front passenger tire wasn't moving much, just jerking around. I have brand new brake calipers and rotors on all four wheels. The rims and tires are brand new as well and were just balanced to spec. The car just underwent a full 4 wheel alignment due to the rear subframe work. I'm still having the SAME vibration issues.

    The next thing I am going to do is tear down the lobro again and see if there's something wrong with it. I am not sure if it is supposed to do this, but when I grab both sides of the lobro, it makes a click sound--only one click per rotation. Almost like it's loose. It was recently rebuilt by a driveshaft shop, but I am concerned that this may be an issue. Does anyone have any input on this? The lobro is solid and moves freely in and out, it just clicks when rotated back and forth along the shaft.
     
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  10. Husler005 TSi

    Husler005 TSi Probationary Member

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    West Michigan, Michigan
    Just and update here: after a disassembling the lobro joint, it appears it was not serviced by the driveshaft shop. They must have just took it out to swap carrier bearings, and put it back together without adding grease. There was little to no grease in it and the inner race was showing signs of fatigue. This and the lack of grease may have been the cause of the vibrations. Now that I rebuilt it with a good deal of new grease, the lobro is solid. I also put a different internal race from another shaft I had in the garage. I took the car around the block today and so far so good. I will update this post in another 200+ miles and let you know if anything changes.
     
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  11. TSi-Rocket

    TSi-Rocket Proven Member

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    Nortwest Ohio, Ohio
    Well ive been putting off this project until my overtime schedule at work slows down so I can enjoy it. But my beater awd is giving me fits so I am about to start tearing into it. So far I have drove the car on the weekends prob put 300miles on it and my major problems are I need an aftermarket clutch, and the passenger rear shock and driveshaft need replaced. Im ordering agx's all the way around, and parts to rebuild the driveshaft.
     
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  12. Husler005 TSi

    Husler005 TSi Probationary Member

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    West Michigan, Michigan
    Hey guys--another update in regards to the drivetrain issues I was having. As mentioned in an earlier reply, I rebuilt my lobro joint and all has been well after 500+ miles. The car does not have any significant vibrations, and drives like new. Thanks to BoostX for the rear subframe bushings--having the rear end rebuilt with new bushings really makes a difference on these 1G AWDs. While my drivetrain projects have been a real pain to diagnose, the car is 100% and is good for another 20 years!
     
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  13. bscratch

    bscratch Probationary Member

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    I'm going to bump this bad boy. I have a similar issue but only under decel when the car lugs the engine. I have been chasing this ghost for a while. There is almost a metallic grinding sound under decel until the lugging then there is a very hard bang. I had the transfer case rebuilt and have a single piece drive shaft and one carrier bearing.. this problem has been noticeable since the original shaft was on without the banging. I had the car at the Chrysler dealer for t case fix and had them look into the noise which was the most pathetic display of intelligence I have ever encountered. Point being I was able to grab the drive shaft and could literally slam the drive shaft into the transfer case very easily. My guess is that the lobro is dead. You can hear air rushing in and out as the driveshadt is being moved in and out. I was just curious if this sounds like a lobro issue to anyone?
     
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  14. bscratch

    bscratch Probationary Member

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    *Crickets*
     
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  15. TSi-Rocket

    TSi-Rocket Proven Member

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    Nortwest Ohio, Ohio
    Sorry been busy with my jeep and dsm projects, forgot about this thread. I found that the transmission mount bolts were loose while investigating this problem, the two that bolt to the trans. I however put agx's all around the car at the same time so the combination of bad struts and the loose bolts solved the problem. I have not messed with the driveshaft yet but I have had no further problems with the vibration.

    Its not a surprise to me after going thru this car I found many mistakes from the previous owner. Thanks everyone for your help.
     
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