DIY alcohol injection

Posted by TurboConvert, Nov 30, 2004

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  1. TurboConvert

    TurboConvert Proven Member

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    Richmond, Virginia
    I am in the process of upgrading this car and my next step is a reasonable FMIC (ebay), homemade 2.5" mandrel bent MIG welded IC pipes and an 40% alch /60% water injection setup to make way for high boost. I am following the DIY for this link:

    http://members.cox.net/stevemonroe/AlcoholInjMod.html

    I am having trouble deciding where to place the nozzle/s. I have seen installations just before the IC and ones in the UIC pipe. I have also seen installations with both. What is the point of spraying into the intercooler? wouldn't this just make the mix condense in the intercooler? Also, why a boost pressure activated switch in lieu of a UIC temp probe with a threshold temp to activate a relay to the pump? Also, what are the advantages of the Aquamist nozzles over the NOS nozzles?

    Another problem is that I cannot find the Shurflo pump specified in the DIY. I can however choose between these two Shurflo pumps does anyone know which is the correct choice?

    http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...oductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=527&R=527

    http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...uctDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=7273&R=7273

    If there are any chemists out there, what is the bonding configuration for H2O and CH3CH2OH to the C8H18 + ~18% O2 ?? How do the extra Hydrogens help the burn rate? at this mix what would be the flash point temp?

    Thanks in advance.

    Also, if this is too much of a newbie question, please move to the appropriate forum, thanks.

    I am relatively new to these forums since the demise of DSMTalk ;(
     

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  2. 86MCSS

    86MCSS Proven Member

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    I have installed a couple kits and will be installing one on my talon shortly. I would place the nozzle for injection about 2 feet away from the throttle body. This way the alky will mix very well with the air and distribute more evenly into the intake manifold :thumb:

    And honestly neither of those pumps seem very good. You want a pump with a High PSI rating. The higher the PSI the more fine of a mist the pump will create. All the kits I installed were 80 or better PSI.

    Hope this helps.
     
  3. TurboConvert

    TurboConvert Proven Member

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    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    Richmond, Virginia
    Ok, where do I get a pump that is better?
     
  4. 1SloColt

    1SloColt Proven Member

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    Joined Sep 24, 2004
    port royal, Virginia
    Here is a SHURflo 8000 series pump, basically the same thing you were looking at but with 100psi capability, look at the $78 pump: SHURflo
     
  5. tsibribri

    tsibribri Proven Member

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    , Pennsylvania
    im just subcribing cause i myself am lookin into this for my car :thumb:
     
  6. stevemonroe

    stevemonroe Proven Member

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    Joined Nov 30, 2004
    Mustang, Oklahoma
    Hi guys, I'm the one who owns the page in the link above and just wanted to let you know that the Shurflo pump I list on my site can be adjusted to put out over 150 psi by turning the small screw on the limit switch at the top of the pump.
    Thanks,
    Steve Monroe
     
  7. 86MCSS

    86MCSS Proven Member

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    Joined Jun 18, 2003
    ,
    Got any DIY pages that show how to make your own adjustable controller for an alky system? :thumb: I want one kinda like the SMC controller. I dont want an alky system that just comes on an off with a boost switch. I really dont like the ones with multiple boost switchs either....[yes im picky] :confused:

    Any advise would be appreciated :cool:
     
  8. stevemonroe

    stevemonroe Proven Member

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    Joined Nov 30, 2004
    Mustang, Oklahoma
    No DIY controller but Julio at Alky Control has the best I'm aware of. I never have made any upgrades to my DIY kit. It worked great in 1996 when I first installed it and I still have the same setup on both my GN and TTA today. Counting both cars, I have 12 years experience with it and couldn't be happier for the amount of money spent. Throw a $200 controller on this system and compare the results with spending that $200 on some other upgrade and I have an idea the controller would give less power gain.

    If designing the system with what I know today the only change I'd make would be to use the McMaster Carr oil burner nozzle instead of the NOS fan spray & jet. Granted, SMC (and Alky Control) have systems that are more universal and work well with a variety of cars & combos but some of the features that make it universal are dollars wasted when compared to building your own kit designed for just one car.

    As for kit makers reliabity, Julio is tops. I would avoid SMC. For an engineer, he has put out some of the poorest designed, trouble-prone components I have seen from any auto vendor. I think his skill is in marketing mainly and customer relations second. But then maybe you don't know how many bad pumps, bad connectors, failed hose connections etc etc that SMC kits have had.
    Thanks,
    Steve Monroe
     
  9. 86MCSS

    86MCSS Proven Member

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    Got a link to "julio's" web page? Very interested now. Thanks for the reply too!
     
  10. stevemonroe

    stevemonroe Proven Member

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    Joined Nov 30, 2004
    Mustang, Oklahoma
    alkycontrol.com
     
  11. stevemonroe

    stevemonroe Proven Member

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    Mustang, Oklahoma
    TurboConvert,
    See reply within your post quoted below.

    I am having trouble deciding where to place the nozzle/s. I have seen installations just before the IC and ones in the UIC pipe. I have also seen installations with both. What is the point of spraying into the intercooler?

    >>It's been done for stealth applications but I see no benefit to performance. Also makes it harder to check the nozzle for dirt, etc.

    wouldn't this just make the mix condense in the intercooler?

    >>with sufficient airflow, the fluid would be pushed/drawn into the engine or it would evaporate. I don't think it would have time to condense.

    Also, why a boost pressure activated switch in lieu of a UIC temp probe with a threshold temp to activate a relay to the pump? Also, what are the advantages of the Aquamist nozzles over the NOS nozzles?

    >>Simpler? Really, I have no idea what a UIC temp probe is. ?? NOS nozzles don't really atomize the liquid. They work for me but I have done some flow inprovements to the intake tract that optomizes the fluid distribution. When I first installed the system, I read the sparkplugs every few hundred miles to be sure I was safe too.

    Another problem is that I cannot find the Shurflo pump specified in the DIY. I can however choose between these two Shurflo pumps does anyone know which is the correct choice?

    >>Go to the Northern page and search for item # 2687. It says 1.8 gpm / 60psi but w/a 7/64" allen wrench you can get 200+ psi out of it.


    HTH,
    Steve Monroe
     
  12. TurboConvert

    TurboConvert Proven Member

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    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    Richmond, Virginia
    Steve, thanks for the info.

    Another concern that I have regarding the system is washing the combustion chamber & robbing the rings from being lubricated; is this an issue with the 4g63 motor? I have new rings and I would like them to last a long time. Also is there a chance that water will work its way into the engine oil?
     
  13. gixrman

    gixrman Freelancer

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    Joined Nov 13, 2002
    Frederick, Maryland
    If your dumping that much water into the intake track your not doing it any good. The rule of thumb is 20% water to fuel. ex. your spraying 1000cc/min, you should be adding 200cc/min.

    good info site www.rbracing-rsr.com
     
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  14. Jehu

    Jehu Proven Member

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    Joined Oct 3, 2002
    ,
    Hmm...Steve, are you sure the higher psi pumps don't have motors capable of handling the higher current draw? That's interesting though...Have you done that on your pumps, i.e. 200psi for extended periods of time? Thanks.
     
  15. stevemonroe

    stevemonroe Proven Member

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    Joined Nov 30, 2004
    Mustang, Oklahoma
    We installed a DIY on my friends Stage 2 Buick T Type and I selected a .045" jet for his combo but then he began running more & more boost than the 18 psi he had been running so we had to up the pressure to 90 to keep out of the knock zone. His system has worked for two years now but that little bit of experience isn't something I'd bet the farm on.
    I'd contact Julio at Alky Control since he's a Shurflo distributor. He should know.

    As for accelerated engine wear, I've talked this over with some of the early Buick Alky gurus (Jay Carter & Joe Tripodi both had systems on the market in the 80s) who have seen no evidence of that after observing numerous engine teardowns. When the water flashes into steam at the point of ignition, it's gone. There won't be any residual left to seep into the crankcase. Another benefit of a water/alky mix is that steam cleaning the combustion chambers should actually lengthen the engines life.

    I just want to add that I hope nobody takes me to be super smart on alky systems. My calling is actually in the machinist trade. I just retired from a USAF tool & Die shop having started machining in 1966. Now I've been machining throttle bodys in my shop for Buick GNs and whatever other car makes are interested. I bore them and make the new plates. If interested, I have a Throttle Body Page on my site. My price is reasonable so give the page a look if you're in the market.
    Thanks,
    Steve Monroe
     

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