Compressor surge/flutter in 4th and 5th on the highway

[93'colttsi]

I'm getting compressor surge ( I think) on the highway in 4th and 5th gears on light accel/boosting. happens around 10+ psi. turbo starts making boost around 2500 rpm and I can hit full boost (25psi) at around 3800-4000rpm

Have my 1ga
100% stock internal 6 bolt(stock cams)
Evo 3 16G knock off
650cc FIC
Stock BCS with restrictor removed. .025 restrictor on Wastegate feed line
Walbro 255hp
Crushed 1g bov
meth injection
fmic
3" turboback exhaust
intake
Tunerpro running Swede Density

Didn't have this problem when I was on wastegate pressure. Now running EBC with SwD EBC map. RPM/BOOST target map adjusted, seemed to help. MAX boost of 25psi.

Thinking that the small exhaust side of the 16g turbine housing is spooling up at the lower RPM on the highway and producing too much boost for the engine to injest. Once the surge starts, it just gets worse as it boosts higher. If I do WOT throttle pulls there is no surge at all. Only does it at partial throttle when accelerating on the highway. And when I was at the track last weekend there was no surge at all when I raced it.

I changed my boost map to run low duty cycle at the RPM/BOOST that the surge happened at. and it helped.. but now when I floor it at lower RPM's it only hits low boost, 12 psi, then once the RPM reach the higher RPM it boosts up. loose a lot of power when flooring it in 1st and 2nd gear.

Anyone have any remedy's for this? seems like some setting that limits boost at lower TPS would do the job. Unfotunalty there doesn't seem to be any setting like that in Swd

I have included a sceen shot of my boost control map

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[pagosa dsm]

I had the same with my Holset hx35. I tried many things with no success. I read some posts on the Buick National turbo sited. I person came up with installing a Tornado in the intake . Well it worked, almost all of my turbo surge is gone. I have a Holset, there is a compressor wheel company that make a wheel that eliminate turbo surge. I am planning on trying that in the future
Rick

 

[pagosa dsm]

I had the same with my Holset hx35. I tried many things with no success. I read some posts on the Buick National turbo sited. I person came up with installing a Tornado in the intake before the turbo . Well it worked, almost all of my turbo surge is gone. I have a Holset, there is a compressor wheel company that make a wheel that eliminate turbo surge. I am planning on trying that in the future
Rick

 

[jakelandry]

Mine did the same thing climbing hills on the interstate. My issue was a DGM 1g bov.

 

[93'colttsi]

Sounds good. I'll put on a greddy style adjustable bov asap and keep this post updated on how it goes.

 

[pagosa dsm]

Sounds good. I'll put on a greddy style adjustable bov asap and keep this post updated on how it goes.

I had the same problem that you have, you can try the BOV When that doesn't work try the Tornado

 

[93'colttsi]

I had the same problem that you have, you can try the BOV When that doesn't work try the Tornado

Where do you get these tornado things?

 

[pagosa dsm]

Where do you get these tornado things?

I got them on line. just goggle Tornado they are like 30.00. If you don't believe me check on the Buick grand national sites

 

[93'colttsi]

No i can actually understand how they would help surging... i see a lot of oem using them as well in my trades. (ecoboost fords) they are solid little fan like things and spin the incoming air. Would help break up surge in sure especially if placed just before the BOV

Anyways. I installed the greddy type s knock off I had and did a couple pulls tonight. When I installed it I just did some reving in nuetral and adjusted the spring tension. Ended up cranking that bi*** down all the way till the set screw was almost even with the nut. It seems to have no problem blowing off at low boost and such, and i figure it will hold boost better with more spring tension. Havnt done any boost leak test yet but the first thing I noticed is when I decel to a stop it doesn't make stupid squeeling noises like the the crushed 1g BOV made. The 2nd thing I noticed is now at full throttle in 3rd and higher gear in was making 27-28 psi where as before I was only making 25 psi I had to lower my boost solenoid duty cycle down 15% in order to get 25 psi again at WOT. I'm sure this indicates that the crushed 1g bov was leaking a lot of boost. I set my boost map to be way more aggressive at lower rpm and lower boosts so now the 16g turbo is pretty much spoiling as fast as it can. I noticed with the greddy type s knock off It also seems to spool up much quicker then the crushed 1g did with the same boost map settings. I may have to adjust my tune now and add some fuel on spool up.

 

[93'colttsi]

well when it hits the boost gauge flutters and makes a crazy noise... scary when its surging like that under acceleration/partial throttle.
I swapped in a greddy type S style BOV and cranked the adjustment screw all the way down and it still does the surging at partial throttle in 3-5th gear.

 

[jakelandry]

Have you tried not cranking it all the way down? The easier it is to open the less chance you have of surge. Also try a direct line to the bov from somewhere with a lot of vacuum like a big IM port with no t's. The tornado thing is a "Band-Aid" and I'd consider the quality of that method to be equivalent to a Band-aid pulled out of the trash.

 

[pagosa dsm]

Have you tried not cranking it all the way down? The easier it is to open the less chance you have of surge. Also try a direct line to the bov from somewhere with a lot of vacuum like a big IM port with no t's. The tornado thing is a "Band-Aid" and I'd consider the quality of that method to be equivalent to a Band-aid pulled out of the trash.

have you ever had experience with addressing compressor surge? I have and I asked all the experts with no success. If you think a Tornado is a Band- Aid fix , what success have you had correcting surge? I have a Holset and a company makes a compressor wheel that eliminate surge which I will try later
Rick

 

[93'colttsi]

Yeah I actually turned the BOV adjustment back a bit and it seemed to help a lot.

Not sure if the BOV will hold as much boost now.

I have found in can control the surge by just not boosting past 10 psi while cruising /light acceleration. I checked and my turbo actually starts making boost around 2000 rpm and will reach 20 psi before 2800 rpm if you go WOT in 5th from a slow cruise. Jeeze... almost too much boost for the engine at low rpm I'd imagine I can adjust my boost map to give the turbo a " fake" spool up

 

[Justin Lauscher]

The spring on the bov is only there to hold the valve shut during idle and cruise, when boost comes on the pressure is pushed to the top of the bov so it's pushed shut, you should be able to loosen that bad boy all the way and it should still hold boost fine

 

[bling5tatus]

^^ Yep, the pressure on the top of the diaphragm should be whatever the spring is + the amount of boost.... which should hold the bov shut because the only pressure on the under side of the diaphragm is boost pressure without any spring to assist it.

 

[jakelandry]

have you ever had experience with addressing compressor surge? I have and I asked all the experts with no success. If you think a Tornado is a Band- Aid fix , what success have you had correcting surge? I have a Holset and a company makes a compressor wheel that eliminate surge which I will try later
Rick

As previously stated in this thread I do have experience addressing compressor surge and on 3 different turbos. In fact, I have multiple sets of thrust bearings out of two of the three turbos that were ruined from compressor surge (several of which came out of a hx40 which is literally designed to be run without a bov and has a surge cover). Perhaps research what compressor surge is before talking to the vast quantity of self proclaimed geniuses on the internet.

 

[pagosa dsm]

As previously stated in this thread I do have experience addressing compressor surge and on 3 different turbos. In fact, I have multiple sets of thrust bearings out of two of the three turbos that were ruined from compressor surge (several of which came out of a hx40 which is literally designed to be run without a bov and has a surge cover). Perhaps research what compressor surge is before talking to the vast quantity of self proclaimed geniuses on the internet.

I guess you ruined 3 turbos and I have not ruined any you must be the expert

 

[jakelandry]

I had the same with my Holset hx35. I tried many things with no success. I read some posts on the Buick National turbo sited. I person came up with installing a Tornado in the intake . Well it worked, almost all of my turbo surge is gone. I have a Holset, there is a compressor wheel company that make a wheel that eliminate turbo surge. I am planning on trying that in the future
Rick

I had the same problem that you have, you can try the BOV When that doesn't work try the Tornado

I got them on line. just goggle Tornado they are like 30.00. If you don't believe me check on the Buick grand national sites

have you ever had experience with addressing compressor surge? I have and I asked all the experts with no success. If you think a Tornado is a Band- Aid fix , what success have you had correcting surge? I have a Holset and a company makes a compressor wheel that eliminate surge which I will try later
Rick

I guess you ruined 3 turbos and I have not ruined any you must be the expert

Luckily I don't even have to defend myself on this one because you've shown your lack of intelligence numerous times in this thread already. You should go buy that compressor wheel immediately. It'll fix all your problems.

 

[pagosa dsm]

I had the same with my Holset hx35. I tried many things with no success. I read some posts on the Buick National turbo sited. I person came up with installing a Tornado in the intake . Well it worked, almost all of my turbo surge is gone. I have a Holset, there is a compressor wheel company that make a wheel that eliminate turbo surge. I am planning on trying that in the future
Rick

http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick-v6-turbo-tech/75008-cure-turbo-surge.html

 

[doubleclutch]

OP: Do you have ARP head studs? If not you are into boost pressure were you can start lifting the head.