2G cold start low idle? no solutions!

[TheFlashDSM]

i have a daily 96 auto gsx fully stock i have dsmlink v3 full in the car now to check whats wrong and i cant figure it out

start the car cold and goes to 750rpm and wont raise idle to warm up, im in long island ny and its cold right now, and for the life of me with all the research i cant figure this out! issue with my 2g dsm all options have been checked,

CEL FOR P0400 AND P0443 cant clear no matter what i do

-has fuel odor
-hot start dips low then comes up to idle at 750rpm
ecu checked for being burnt out (good) replaced with 2 other good ones i have here for a 96 gsx auto
eletrical connection cleaned and check for voltage (good)
MDP replaced and little hole was cleaned
tps in perfect sync and was replaced 3 times
replaced evap check valve and black cone plunger thingy
replaced and check ohm of all sensors and solenoids.
replaced coolant temp sensor
replaced, isc
replaced fiav
cleaned carb
no boost leaks, all vacuum lines are correct! (checked multiple times)
replaced maf
replaced egr
replaced fuel press reg.

im out of ideas and here is my log of idle for like 20 min, i was mainly setting the biss screw to 30 and learned idle adj to 144, am i missing a step after this?

I HAVE ALL SENSORS LOGGED PLEASE VIEW AND HELP ME

 

[91talonts1]

All four times you hot started it in the log you just posted, it shoots to 1200rpm before leveling around target.

 

[TheFlashDSM]

All four times you hot started it in the log you just posted, it shoots to 1200rpm before leveling around target.

this is whhat it normally does look at this log

 

[91talonts1]

I don't see a dip in the one labeled cold start. It idles above 1000rpm until ECT is above 110*.

It does idle low in the beginning of the hot start labeled log, but that one also doesn't show the actual cranking. And it's low for less than like 4 seconds.

Haven't you been changing parts since these logs were taken? If so they might not even be relevant anymore. Has the problem occurred again since you changed that filter?

 

[TheFlashDSM]

I don't see a dip in the one labeled cold start. It idles above 1000rpm until ECT is above 110*.

It does idle low in the beginning of the hot start labeled log, but that one also doesn't show the actual cranking. And it's low for less than like 4 seconds.

Haven't you been changing parts since these logs were taken? If so they might not even be relevant anymore. Has the problem occurred again since you changed that filter?

-has fuel odor
-hot start dips low then comes up to idle at 750rpm
ecu checked for being burnt out (good) replaced with 2 other good ones i have here for a 96 gsx auto
eletrical connection cleaned and check for voltage (good)
MDP replaced and little hole was cleaned
tps in perfect sync and was replaced 3 times
replaced evap check valve and black cone plunger thingy
replaced and check ohm of all sensors and solenoids.
replaced coolant temp sensor
replaced, isc
replaced fiav
cleaned carb
no boost leaks, all vacuum lines are correct! (checked multiple times)
replaced maf
replaced egr
replaced fuel press reg.
fuel filter replaced

 

[91talonts1]

Yes I've read what you replaced. My question was, were these logs taken before, during, or after you started doing all of the above?

If they were taken before you replaced anything that might've been causing issues then they aren't much good anymore.

Do you have a current log of the hot start idle dip? Needs to be of the car as is, meaning don't acquire data then change parts/make repairs and then rely on the previous data. What I saw in your log from earlier tonight all looked normal to me. Other than what I mentioned about the FTs and the knock.

 

[Murdertalon]

Have you checked plugs and gap, also could it be that your throttle body is not pulling shut hard enough? sound odd but I had to add springs (carb springs napa) to the throttle body of mine to get the butterfly to snap closed properly.

 

[gofer]

One quick question, do you have the coolant lines going to the FIAV on the bottom of the throttle body?

 

[TheFlashDSM]

Yes I've read what you replaced. My question was, were these logs taken before, during, or after you started doing all of the above?

If they were taken before you replaced anything that might've been causing issues then they aren't much good anymore.

Do you have a current log of the hot start idle dip? Needs to be of the car as is, meaning don't acquire data then change parts/make repairs and then rely on the previous data. What I saw in your log from earlier tonight all looked normal to me. Other than what I mentioned about the FTs and the knock.

all logs where taken after that work was done, and im gonna do a log right now of a cold start, its like 20* out side, so will see what happens, then ill drive to work and when i get there ill hot start it and log that.

Have you checked plugs and gap, also could it be that your throttle body is not pulling shut hard enough? sound odd but I had to add springs (carb springs napa) to the throttle body of mine to get the butterfly to snap closed properly.

yes plugs and gap are perfect, yes the throttle plate is closing fast enough its very snappy,

One quick question, do you have the coolant lines going to the FIAV on the bottom of the throttle body?

yes coolant lines to the fiav, and fiav not clogged

 

[TheFlashDSM]

Yes I've read what you replaced. My question was, were these logs taken before, during, or after you started doing all of the above?

If they were taken before you replaced anything that might've been causing issues then they aren't much good anymore.

Do you have a current log of the hot start idle dip? Needs to be of the car as is, meaning don't acquire data then change parts/make repairs and then rely on the previous data. What I saw in your log from earlier tonight all looked normal to me. Other than what I mentioned about the FTs and the knock.

well, this is the problem right here, its 32* on the coolant temp. i turn the key and it idles at 950* esh foe 15sec then idles up to 1000rpm and stays there till warm. THIS IS NOT RIGHT BUT WHY!

hot start will be posted later.

THIS IS MY PROBLEM EVERY COLD START, THIS IS THE REASON I CHANGED ALL THE SENSORS, THIS IS THE REASON I TOOK OUT STOCK ECU AND PUT IN LINK, ALL TO FIGURE OUT THE PROBLEM!

 

[doubleclutch]

Disable hot start enrichment on Misc tab.
Enable use factory settings for FPR and EGR unless you have aftermarket and/or deleted egr.

 

[91talonts1]

THIS IS MY PROBLEM EVERY COLD START, THIS IS THE REASON I CHANGED ALL THE SENSORS, THIS IS THE REASON I TOOK OUT STOCK ECU AND PUT IN LINK, ALL TO FIGURE OUT THE PROBLEM!

I'm on my phone at work so I can't see the log right now. Whatever you're saying the problem is, isnt happening every cold start. As I said before, the cold start log I looked at last night everything worked just as it should. The idle started at 1500 cold, then gradually lowers to target as the temp rises, indicating your fiav is doing what it should.

 

[TheFlashDSM]

I'm on my phone at work so I can't see the log right now. Whatever you're saying the problem is, isnt happening every cold start. As I said before, the cold start log I looked at last night everything worked just as it should. The idle started at 1500 cold, then gradually lowers to target as the temp rises, indicating your fiav is doing what it should.

please go by this new log that i have posted this is the problem im seeing all the time, last log was after ecu was reseted thats the one you saw that was normal,

Disable hot start enrichment on Misc tab.
Enable use factory settings for FPR and EGR unless you have aftermarket and/or deleted egr.

where is the setting to enable factory settings for the fpr and egr, and the hot start i will disable, but it does this problem regardless if its on or off just saying.

 

[doubleclutch]

The tabs literally say "FPS" and "EGR"

The hot start enrichment is on the "MISC" tabs as i mentioned above.

I know you are struggling, but generally it is a good idea to leave things set as they should be when diagnosing a problem. Changing things that are already correct rarely helps.

 

[TheFlashDSM]

Disable hot start enrichment on Misc tab.
Enable use factory settings for FPR and EGR unless you have aftermarket and/or deleted egr.

never mind i found where it was, maybe this was the problem the whole time ill have to wait to leave work to find out, would be cool though

 

[TheFlashDSM]

The tabs literally say "FPS" and "EGR"

The hot start enrichment is on the "MISC" tabs as i mentioned above.

I know you are struggling, but generally it is a good idea to leave things set as they should be when diagnosing a problem. Changing things that are already correct rarely helps.

i feel like this is my problem

 

[doubleclutch]

I don't know what it defaults to if neither the "use factory settings" or "user defined settings" are selected. Hopefully this is the cause.

 

[TheFlashDSM]

I don't know what it defaults to if neither the "use factory settings" or "user defined settings" are selected. Hopefully this is the cause.

well i activated the settings just before start, i started and same thing no difference at all, i made a log but guess what the the way home the laptop died so gotta do another log later, gonna wait for motor to cool then pull a log.

but something else ive noticed is if i start the car cold and let it idle for 30 sec then drive off when i come to a stop the rpm's drop real low then come back up, im gonna try to log all of the problems indiidually so you guys can see the issue im having,

 

[Mello]

I think your problem is with your EVAP system & why you have your P0400 & P0443 code in the first place & why they won't clear. I think he EVAP is causing the EGR errors too. Years ago I had a 2.2 turbo Shelby Charger which had all sorts of problems with idle & start up. I took several trips to the dealer & mechanics before one discovered (not the dealership either) that my charcoal canister was full of gas & not venting. Replaced the canister & all was fixed.

 

[TheFlashDSM]

I think your problem is with your EVAP system & why you have your P0400 & P0443 code in the first place & why they won't clear. I think he EVAP is causing the EGR errors too. Years ago I had a 2.2 turbo Shelby Charger which had all sorts of problems with idle & start up. I took several trips to the dealer & mechanics before one discovered (not the dealership either) that my charcoal canister was full of gas & not venting. Replaced the canister & all was fixed.

well at the current time i unplugging stuff from the evap system to narrow it down, such as the egr, i just did a vacuum test on the egr nipples and they dont hold vacuum, so problem there, next i will take a shot again at the evap system, but my gas millage right now is like 11mpg so im over fueling for some reason, it could be relating to the eap not purging the fuel tank causing higher fuel pressure and my problem, but im gonna sort out one thing at a time but the more i dig the feather i feel like im getting, but i will take you advice and look into the canister this weekend or tomorrow and see, because im changing my fuel filter again! =)

 

[TheFlashDSM]

when i unplug the mdp while the car is running at idle nothing happens is that normal?

 

[TheFlashDSM]

so this is what has been done after last dsmlink log,

brand new fuel filter
pressure cleaned injectors,

now when i did this i disconnected the battery and when i do that the first start is always perfect, high idle when motor is cold but after this is goes back to low idle cold start and flooding on hot start,

when i say flooding i mean, start car motor warm rpm goes to 900-1000 then to 650 then 750 my moms corolla dosnt do that and neither should my car something is wrong somewhere..

LOG ATTACHED PLEASE VIEW RPM

-1ST LOG IN RIGHT AFTER I CONNECTED THE BATTERY, SO COLD START WAS WHAT ITS SUPPOSE TO DO NORMALLY, COMPARED TO THE OTHER COLD START LOGS I HAVE POSTED

-2ND LOG CAR SAT 5 MIN, THEN HOT START PAY ATTENTION TO RPM..

i will always be posting a cold start then a hot start after something has been changed these are right after the ecu was reset from battery disconnected but tomorrow you will see the difference from these logs after ecu reset to a cold start then hot start after it sits over night
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1st picture ... left filter is what came with the car when i bought it, sat for 2 years never changed, right filter #2 in picture one is a fram i replaced it with 100 miles ago to see if the filter was my problem, and btw no it wasn't,

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2nd picture... left filter , i cut open the oem to inspect how clogged it was, well not very clogged or dirty at all, it was a cardboard like material wound up, right filter in second picture is the fram i replaced it with 100 miles ago, the back wash was very clean but still some what dirty, i cut that open to inspect and it is a canister filter found in most fuel filter today.

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3rd picture... these are my brand new oem injectors $$$ after seeing filter 1 i said hey let me put a new filter in cycle the fuel for 100 or so miles then replace the filter with a 3rd and clean the injectors at the same time, well the specs in the container is crap that was in the screen to the injectors, most of it was from when i back flowed the injectors with carb cleaner under pressure with a sealed hose system that i made, now keep in mind some of the crap is also from dirt on the out side of the injector as well.

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[Rey602]

interested to see how it turns out had the same issue on my boys 2g

 

[91talonts1]

when i say flooding i mean, start car motor warm rpm goes to 900-1000 then to 650 then 750 my moms corolla dosnt do that and neither should my car something is wrong somewhere..

Flooding means there is too much fuel in the cylinders. Where are you getting this idea???? A bog in the idle does not just automatically mean the engine is flooding.

Forget what your mom's corolla does, your gsx is not a corolla. They do not run on the same ecu code.

Your target idle is 750 rpm. Factory range is +/- 50 rpm. So ideally you should bounce between 700-800 rpm. When you hot started in that log, the rpm went around 900 for about 8 seconds (probably due to hot start enrichment and perfectly normal to idle high for a second anyway) then drops around your target.

For only .646 seconds does your rpm drop below 700 rpm.
Nothing at all is odd about engine speed on that start. The ecu is using timing, fueling, and the isc to control idle speed. It can only react to a needed idle speed increase so quickly. There are tons of situations where the idle speed will slightly drop and the ecu will take a second to react. This is exhibited in the log, the point it does go below 700rpm corresponds with the iscpos getting down around the lower 40s. The ecu saw the idle was getting low at that point, and bumped iscpos back over 50, which in turn brought the idle back up. Again the reaction took .646 seconds, not unusual at all. From startup to the idle leveling off right only took about 3 seconds, again not unusual.

If you don't want the rpm to ever drop below 700rpm, then bump the target idle speed up. That's the only way it's happening. The one labeled cold start isn't opening for me for some reason.

Also when it does drop below 700, I never saw anything lower than 670rpm.

 

[TheFlashDSM]

Flooding means there is too much fuel in the cylinders. Where are you getting this idea???? A bog in the idle does not just automatically mean the engine is flooding.

Forget what your mom's corolla does, your gsx is not a corolla. They do not run on the same ecu code.

Your target idle is 750 rpm. Factory range is +/- 50 rpm. So ideally you should bounce between 700-800 rpm. When you hot started in that log, the rpm went around 900 for about 8 seconds (probably due to hot start enrichment and perfectly normal to idle high for a second anyway) then drops around your target.

For only .646 seconds does your rpm drop below 700 rpm.
Nothing at all is odd about engine speed on that start. The ecu is using timing, fueling, and the isc to control idle speed. It can only react to a needed idle speed increase so quickly. There are tons of situations where the idle speed will slightly drop and the ecu will take a second to react. This is exhibited in the log, the point it does go below 700rpm corresponds with the iscpos getting down around the lower 40s. The ecu saw the idle was getting low at that point, and bumped iscpos back over 50, which in turn brought the idle back up. Again the reaction took .646 seconds, not unusual at all. From startup to the idle leveling off right only took about 3 seconds, again not unusual.

If you don't want the rpm to ever drop below 700rpm, then bump the target idle speed up. That's the only way it's happening. The one labeled cold start isn't opening for me for some reason.

Also when it does drop below 700, I never saw anything lower than 670rpm.

the idle is CORRECT only when i reset the ecu!!!!
tm ill post another cold and hot start and you will see the bog i was talking about, and then you can explain why the log you just saw is different then the one i post tm.. look at my other non reset ecu logs there very different then the reset ecu logs. BUT WHY. THERE IS A PROBLEM SOME WERE, tm i will be also checking the charcoal canister because i thnk its not venting off the excess fuel pressure from in tank and causing to much fuel pressure, im getting 11-12 mph right now there is something wrong somewhere

 

[91talonts1]

I will be happy to look at those logs tomorrow. Without looking at them though I can tell you startup after battery reset is going to be different as the fuel trims, learnedidleadj, etc are reset with it.

Do you get a whooshing noise when you remove the filler cap? I had tank pressure buildup on a 2g once due to that little check valve being clogged up and you could hear and feel the vapor come out of the tank when opened.