Clutch Goes To Floor. Wont Go In Gear

[Beezle]

Ok, I have a 91 tsi awd. I put in a jdm cyclone in about a month ago. I have the stock clutch that came with the motor since I didn't have the money at the time to put one in. Problem after problem so far. Anyway, the other day I was messing around, beating on my car. I revved the car to 7k and popped the clutch (don't sit here and just call me stupid, I know that it's not good for the car, I'm looking for help not criticism) and got one of the best launches. It didn't slip or anything, the tires broke loose for a second and then I got instant grip.

Anyway after that I decided to take it easy on the car since it is old and stuff is bound to break. About 45 mins after that, I wanted to try it just one more time, so I did. This time when I popped the clutch at 7k it started slipping for a second, which is normal, I redlined first, put it in neutral and came to a complete stop. I pushed the clutch in and it just went straight to the floor got stuck for a second and then came back up. I couldn't put it in gear after that. I had to turn the car off put it in gear and start the car and drive it home like that.

Since then I've changed the clutch master and slave cylinder and bled them both properly. The clutch feels like it gets some pressure near the very bottom but it gets stuck and don't come back up. Could it be that I didn't adjust the rod on the master cylinder right? I still can only put it into gear while the car is off, but the car will move if I start it while it's in gear. So that means the clutch isn't shot right?

Btw, the car is bone stock. Any ideas?

 

[Felloffmyrocker]

your clutch master is no good it happens all the time on these cars you can get one and do it yourself if your handy enought to do so. You will also need a friend to helpo you bleed it after it has been replaced. A new master should cost you around $80 if your taking it to a shop it takes about a half hour to do the job propperly but they will probably charge you one hours labor. it wont break your pocket either way.

 

[No_Skillz]

If your clutch holds while you're driving, it's fine. Sounds like a hydraulic issue. Check your clutch fluid level, your slave and master cylinder for leaks. If those are fine, check your adjustment... however if it was fine before you launched, this is unlikely to be the problem.

 

[Beezle]

Thanks for the help guys, but I already replaced the clutch master cylinder and the slave master cylinder. Maybe I just need to bleed them again? Could it also be that I didn't adjust the clutch right when I put the new master cylinder in?

EDIT: I also forgot. I think I might have gotten a FWD slave cylinder. Are AWD's able to use the FWD slave cylinder?

 

[jeremy19984g63]

if you replaced both cylinder, it has to be air in the system i would think or the rod is not adjusted right

 

[Beezle]

if you replaced both cylinder, it has to be air in the system i would think or the rod is not adjusted right

We'll today I looked at my old master cylinder. On my old one the bracket was all the way near the end of the rod. When I put the new one in it's like a inch closer in towards the master cylinder. Do you think it being off like that could be the reason?

 

[thrdtryGSX]

An inch is enough to cause those problems. You may have got the wrong part.

Is there any resistance at all when you step on the clutch?

 

[jeremy19984g63]

the rod is threaded right start turing it out a little at a time testing it as you go till you get close to where the old one was

if its threaded in to far the master cylinder is not working at all and makes bleeding impossible so you would have two issues at hand to cause you problem

 

[Beezle]

An inch is enough to cause those problems. You may have got the wrong part.

The reason why I think I have gotten a fwd slave instead of an awd is because the bleeding screw and where the clutch line is supposed to go in are in different spots than my old one. I had to disconnect the bracket on the transmission that holds the line so I could get some more slack and connect it.

Is there any resistance at all when you step on the clutch?

Only at the very bottom and it gets stuck.

 

[jeremy19984g63]

the slaves are the same for fwd awd

 

[Beezle]

Oh ok, thanks for clearing that. Because the slave I got from the parts store was a little bit different than mine.

 

[Marc91GSX]

You broke a spring in your clutch disk and it is keeping the disk from disengaging. Sorry but you will need to drop your trans to fix it.

 

[Beezle]

So basically I have to buy a new clutch, right? Or can it be fixed without replacing the clutch?

 

[Marc91GSX]

Yeah, what has happened is that the spring on the disk broke and is now lodged in the pressure plate. You can actually just replace the disk but I would recommend that you get a new clutch set.

 

[Artago]

I know this is a REALLY old thread but the exact same thing just happened to me 2 hours ago.

To the OP: Did you ever fix the problem. Was it the clutch? Crankwalk? MC or SC? or something else.

Has anyone else run into this as well?

My clutch hit the floor and got stuck there... it came back up after some pumping but no the car wont go into gear. When I push the clutch down I can feel vibrations.

Thanks for any and all replies.

Tom

 

[92blutalon]

you might need a slave cylinder rebuild kit 15$ and some brake fluid 2-3$

 

[juanpac0]

No problem, i was surprised no one else had said this to you. I mean any time a clutch stops working quickly the first thing I think of is a broken disk. All the other problems are stuff that happen overtime not from one really hard launch.

That was my first thought as well.

This is what your clutch is gonna look like when the springs/dampeners pop out:

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This is what your flywheel surface MAY look like (depends on if the dampener came out on the flywheel side or the pressure plate side):

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Your pressure plate may look like that, but chances are it is your flywheel.

This happened to me under normal driving conditions, I had never launched on this clutch as long as I have owned the car (bout 4k miles) but it had 140k or so on it.


If anyone needs any more help or has any more questions let me know.

 

[juanpac0]

I know this is a REALLY old thread but the exact same thing just happened to me 2 hours ago.

To the OP: Did you ever fix the problem. Was it the clutch? Crankwalk? MC or SC? or something else.

Has anyone else run into this as well?

My clutch hit the floor and got stuck there... it came back up after some pumping but no the car wont go into gear. When I push the clutch down I can feel vibrations.

Thanks for any and all replies.

Tom

Sounds like you have a hydraulic issue, poke your head up under the dash and look for fluid dripping down your firewall, if there is any then your master cylinder is leaking.

Jack your car up and look on the transmission at the slave cylinder, pull the little accordion looking rubber boot back and see if there's any fluid leaking there, if so then it's your slave cylinder. If you need to replace either try to replace both at the same time, it will save you a lot of headache down the road.

 

[Artago]

Hi all, thanks for the replies.

I left the car at a buddies place (rolled it there) for the night.

I'll have it towed tomorrow to my garage.

Some more info:

The salve cylinder is fairly new. About 2000-5000 miles on it. The master is old and has never been checked by me. I have had engagement / disengagement problems for a while now. The clutch would only catch towards the floor and some times it would grind gears. Reverse would grin 20-30% of the time it I would tried to put it in.

I'll start checking things tomorrow we I get the car back.

juanpac0: Thanks for the pics and the info. I hope my clutch has not suffered a similar fate. It's a ACT 2600 which I've had for 2 years. Is there any more info you can provide? Like what cause the clutch to do that?

Thanks again for the replies everyone, please keep the info coming. I'll post an update tomorrow night.

I hope my clutch is ok and that it's just my master and / or slave and this will not turn into weeks of down time and expenses.

In the mean time, good night and thanks again.

Tom

 

[juanpac0]

My first post was more directed to anyone who has had a problem similar to the OP. Excess shock can cause springs to pop out, which is why many people recommend not going with a sprung 6 puck disk, because the harsher and more on/off engagement of a 6 puck combined with a sprung design leads to a higher chance of the springs popping out, especially during clutch dumps. Regardless of whether you have a clutch that can handle it or not, you should never just drop the clutch on our cars as it causes excessive wear on the drivetrain (especially with a grippier clutch) and isn't optimal for performance anyway.

Your problem I'm 99% sure is hydraulic, I bet if you go and look under your dash you'll see that you're leaking from the master cylinder. If you want to properly adjust the clutch you should follow this tutorial (courtesy of Jack's Transmissions):

YouTube - Proper Clutch Adjustment

Basically the idea is that you loosen the 12mm nut that locks the master cylinder rod in place, and you turn it clockwise so the rod goes INTO the firewall/master cylinder until you can't push the clutch fork/slave cylinder in with your thumb any more, then you back the rod out AWAY from the firewall half a turn at a time until you can push the slave in with your thumb again.

Your clutch engaging off the floor means your rod is backed out AWAY from the firewall too far (the further out basically the lower the engagement, you want it 3/4" to an inch off the floor), so re-adjust your clutch after replacing the master cylinder (assuming it is leaking) and I bet you won't have issues anymore. Keep in mind your clutch is not as thick as it was when you got it 2 years ago, and it sounds to me like you didn't shim the pivot ball OR didn't use a brand new clutch fork and pivot ball when you put the clutch in, so adjusting your clutch is very important or it'll start slipping prematurely due to you dragging it.

People shim the pivot ball instead of getting a new one, but a clutch fork and pivot ball set me back like $50 and that's worth the piece of mind to me.


If you need anything else cleared up just let me know.

 

[Artago]

Cool, thanks for the info.

I actually have a new pivot ball and the clutch fork seemed in good shape so I didn't replace it.

Tom

 

[juanpac0]

You can't really tell if there's wear on the fork unless you compare it to a brand new one. I don't think you will have any issues but if by any chance you still have issues after replacing the master cylinder, properly bleeding the system, and adjusting the clutch then you can assume that the fork is the culprit. I'm in class but when I get home I'll link you to proper bleeding technique.

 

[Artago]

Luckily I took pics of the fork before I put it back in. I posted them and I was told it was ok (by other DSMtuners).

Here are the pics again, click on them for larger versions.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/XMNmPvvESOf5eygXdKUW0A?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_unmMjGO_WlM/SfOyvN3pV8I/AAAAAAAAHmA/gVdLYHMn1Uk/s400/0425091758.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/tomas.beblar/CarPictures?feat=embedwebsite">Car Pictures</a></td></tr></table>

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<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/EL6XqzwvqqMBOFHf3mT8CA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_unmMjGO_WlM/SfOyvzmTSQI/AAAAAAAAHmQ/3EO4FEB6MP0/s400/0425091759a.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/tomas.beblar/CarPictures?feat=embedwebsite">Car Pictures</a></td></tr></table>

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<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/fCqnmsf_thzJA8aHF3YtpA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_unmMjGO_WlM/SfOyxIusMcI/AAAAAAAAHmg/FvisZ2hMB50/s400/0425091800.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/tomas.beblar/CarPictures?feat=embedwebsite">Car Pictures</a></td></tr></table>

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/HBtTRR2sHoVn-g4CcYDqBw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_unmMjGO_WlM/SfO3EG83oqI/AAAAAAAAHnA/p-MmcwNvLQ0/s400/0425091819.jpg" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/tomas.beblar/CarPictures?feat=embedwebsite">Car Pictures</a></td></tr></table>

 

[juanpac0]

I'm going to drop the clutch fork topic for now just because there is an overwhelming amount of evidence pointing toward a hydraulic issue, not a fork issue, but I will note that unless you go through clutches very often due to heavy wear and tear you should be replacing the fork and ball every clutch change on principle, and when you were looking for wear it seems like you were focusing on where the slave cylinder hits the fork, which wears a lot less than where the pivot ball meets the fork, as I said you can only really see the difference when you do a side by side comparison due to the minor visual differences.

These should help you (in the order you should do them):

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...place-clutch-master-cylinder-1g-easy-way.html (No description but easy enough to figure out)

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...how-properly-bleed-your-hydraulic-clutch.html

Clutch Adjustment

 

[Artago]

Mini update: I towed the car home yesterday and before taking it apart I did a little test. I had my dad push the clutch in and the slave seems to be working properly. It pushed the clutch fork in as expected.

With the car running if you push the clutch in you can feel vibrations through the pedal. There is also a pinging / banging noise coming from the bell housing when you push the clutch in and also when you release the pedal.

Is it possible that the disk springs popped out?

I'll know more once I take it apart tonight.

If the clutch is F-ed and I do have to replace it, I would like to go with a diff clutch because there have been too many failures reported with the ACT clutches. What should I go for Exedy or Fidanza? Which model?

Again, this is all speculation until I take it apart.

Tom