Cam degree-in degreeing-in degreeing

Posted by treebonker, Nov 4, 2008
Cylinder Head & Short Block - 4G63 cams, valvetrain, pistons, rods, stroker kits, 6-bolt swaps, hybrids, etc. Read this Forum's Strict Guidelines.

  1. treebonker

    treebonker Proven Member

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    land of the mor, Asia
    puff
    #1
  2. blcknspo0ln

    blcknspo0ln DSM Wiseman

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    Central, New_Jersey
    fantastic, this needs to be submitted as a tech article in the engine section ASAP. If it at all possible, finding links for people interested to buy the products you mention would be awesome (I noticed the summit pinwheel).
    #2
  3. SlowSpyder

    SlowSpyder Proven Member

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    Los Angeles, California
    Great write up. I had to degree my cam(sohc) but i didnt have the ati balancer. I had some 14mmx1.25 threaded rod, nuts and the supplied adapters with the moroso degree wheel and this is what i cam up with

    Attached Files:

    #3
  4. blcknspo0ln

    blcknspo0ln DSM Wiseman

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    Central, New_Jersey
    Was this submitted to the tech articles? I didn't see it.
    #4
  5. DSMTriad

    DSMTriad Proven Member

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    Pylesville, Maryland
    Why was this left out?

    1. Introduction

    Talk to any cam grinder, engine builder, or racer and you’ll find overwhelming agreement that “degreeing-in” a camshaft is a vital step along the route to optimum engine performance. At first that may seem strange because “degreeing-in” a cam pertains to checking the accuracy with which it was manufactured.

    The purpose of degreeing a cam is to insure that the cam is phased correctly with the crankshaft, per the cam manufacturers’ specifications. You’re insuring that valve opening and closing events are in accordance with specifications, regardless of the cause. Actual valve opening and closing events are influenced not only by accuracy with which a cam was ground, but also keyway position in the crankshaft, crank timing sprocket, dowel pin hole position in the cam sprocket, and accumulation of machine tolerance also play a major role.

    It is the exception, rather than the rule, that a cam may be out of phase, but this should be established to insure an accurate performance baseline or point of tune. There are however 4G63 Eclipse cam manufacturers that make it a rule rather than the exception. But nobody cares as long as it's cheap and you got that cool lump-lumpity-lump idle.
    #5
  6. e85_4g63

    e85_4g63 Proven Member

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    Manheim, Pennsylvania
    Awesome write up, mind if I print this out to have in the garage when I assemble my motor?
    #6
  7. govproperty

    govproperty Proven Member

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    Wilmington, North_Carolina
    I finally got enough post to reply to this. Thanks for taking the time to write all this down. I enjoyed reading this.:applause: But I have a few questions. Will dialing in have any effect on stock camshafts? Also, do you think it is possible to do this procedure with the engine in the car?
    #7
  8. turboglenn

    turboglenn Proven Member

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    Omaha, Nebraska
    Very nice write up... Now cut and paste the pertanant info to a tech article...meanwhile i'm saving the webpage to my hard drive :D
    #8
  9. fulanititoo8198

    fulanititoo8198 Proven Member

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    YeaRight, Florida
    Nice, Thanks! I've always wanted to know how to do this.
    #9
  10. Calan

    Calan DSM Wiseman

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    OKC, Oklahoma
    This is excellent info.

    Why doesn't anyone sell a kit with 2 solid lifters, or something pre-assembled to do this with? I think an enterprising individual should add some DSM-specific parts to that generic degreeing kit and make some $$$ ;)

    Until then, does anybody have links to some decent inexpensive kits (that you have experience with) ?
    #10
  11. Grimis

    Grimis Proven Member

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    Jersey Shore, Pennsylvania
    nice guide, but looks like its easy to do with the engine out, how would you go about this with the engine in??

    im looking to get cams, and have a shop that will do them, might print this out.
    #11
  12. No_Skillz

    No_Skillz Proven Member

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    Freehold/Morris, New_Jersey
    Why is it so important to adjust lifters to zero lash? Is it to ensure that the entire valve assembly moves up an down exactly with the cam? If this is the case, why worry about adding just the right number of shims? Why not just add a bunch of shims to ensure that the lifter is constantly pressing against the cam lobe?

    And finally, where can I find instructions on removing/installing springs and retainers? (Interest for both that light feeling spring and for future upgrades on springs)

    Fantastic write up. Haven't come across a post of this caliber in a while.
    #12
  13. No_Skillz

    No_Skillz Proven Member

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    Freehold/Morris, New_Jersey
    When you remove the inner spring and shim it, are you preventing the lifter from compressing at all? If so, how do you turn the motor (where the cam lobe ramps up)?
    #13
  14. tsunari

    tsunari Proven Member

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    Jessup, Maryland
    Same as before, except now the opening of the valve will follow the cam profile precisely.

    #14
  15. No_Skillz

    No_Skillz Proven Member

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    Freehold/Morris, New_Jersey
    Ok I think I've been thinking about this the wrong way...

    So the purpose is to make sure the lifter is totally secure, so that the rocker has a solid point to pivot against and the springs/retainers/valves move 100% with the lobe?
    #15
  16. Calan

    Calan DSM Wiseman

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    OKC, Oklahoma
    Exactly....Can't think of a better way of putting it. ;)
    #16
  17. No_Skillz

    No_Skillz Proven Member

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    Freehold/Morris, New_Jersey
    Are there any negative effects of running a modified lifter like this? Don't they need to be compressed for oil to flow/splash on the head internals?
    #17
  18. Calan

    Calan DSM Wiseman

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    OKC, Oklahoma
    You don't want to run them... just use a couple while degreeing the cams, and then put your stock (3g :D) lifters back in.

    I don't have the links handy, but there are several threads floating around here that talk about the negative effects (or at least the lack of any benefit) of running solid lifters in our motors.
    #18
  19. turbosax2

    turbosax2 Moderator

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    Glenshaw, Pennsylvania
    I'm not sure what happened to the original post, but here it is for reference:
    4G63 Camshaft Degreeing
    #19
  20. airmail96

    airmail96 Proven Member

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    Virginia Beach, Virginia
    Thank you for the updated link.
    #20
  21. TSIfreek

    TSIfreek Proven Member

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    cary, Illinois
    Just heads up for everyone make sure your lift @ is correct with what the manufacure of the cam has designed them for or your going to be way off.
    For example I just degreed my first set of kelford cams and was trying to degree them at .050 lift measurments nothing was coming out corrently.
    I found out on there web site there mitsubishi cams are desighed to be degreed at .040 lift or 100mm.
    This was all new to me because all the american made cams are desighed to be checked at .050 lift.
    My cams both intake and exhaust are now 7/8 of a degree retarted to get the correct lift at .040 reason being so is my head has been decked so many times as well has my block has been decked once.
    I used 2 BLE solid lifters and the the morroso pro wheel.
    Usually the kelfords are right on the money.
    I do beleive the HKS cams are also desighned to be degreed at .040 lift as well.
    If your not sure call or email the cam maker.
    #21
    Boosted6 likes this.

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