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1G Building a Shortblock 101

Posted by amsrn13, Nov 9, 2018

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  1. amsrn13

    amsrn13 Proven Member

    1,858
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    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    So tmrw my buddy is coming over and We are going to assemble his engine. Everything came back from the machine shop today. The build consists of a .020 over 6 bolt block. Wiseco Hd pistons, oem compression, manley turbo tuff rods with king bearings and oem crank with arp main bolts. I try to shoot for the same clearances on all my setups. I like a minimum of .0045 ptw clearance. My ring gaps have always been .022 top .024 bottom. The machine shop put the valves back in despite asking otherwise so i need to break the head down AGAIN and reinstall new valve seals and springs. Work starts tmrw morning boys. Ill keep updating until my post gets locked
     

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    Attached Files:

    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi

    Street Build

    645 whp   498 lb/ft
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  2. turbotalon1g

    turbotalon1g Proven Member

    801
    30
    Joined Oct 19, 2005
    Blaine, Minnesota
    Have you built a lot of motors? Thanks for sharing.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Drag Race Build

    11.333 @ 119.94 MPH
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  3. 90laserRSfwd

    90laserRSfwd Proven Member

    1,286
    71
    Joined Mar 5, 2007
    Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania
    I wish someone would make a sticky of short block (101) and cylinder head (101) and have all the correct bolt sizes / torque values / etc listed. Along with, a complete, parts list. People don't understand how many parts and bolts there literally are doing work like that. They think, block / pistons / rods / crank and bam! blocks done... when really there is so much more. Just front case alone with a complete BSE setup takes some time. Castle plug and o ring, both oil pump gears and bolts, BSE spacer if you do it correctly, crank bolt, dampr and bolts, oil pick up / strainer and bolts, BS bearings spun to block off the holes, etc. It takes a good amount of time and patience to assemble a 4g.. Ring gaps your shooting for seem good for 25 - 35psi (under 700whp). Piston to wall sounds like a Wiseco 2816 forging. Guessing rod and main bearing clearances are in the .024 - .028" range?
     
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  4. 90laserRSfwd

    90laserRSfwd Proven Member

    1,286
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    Joined Mar 5, 2007
    Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania
    Do you have the Euroexports valve spring tool? Makes doing the head work cake!
     
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  5. amsrn13

    amsrn13 Proven Member

    1,858
    461
    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    Lol.... funny you said that. Mine has so much use it has time certs in it
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi

    Street Build

    645 whp   498 lb/ft
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    buddahboost likes this.
  6. amsrn13

    amsrn13 Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    All of my builds are generally same setups. As for the specs... the block came back a bit tighter at 3.1-3.4 ptw clearance give or take. Im still happy with that. If I build a motor for someone I wont do it unless all of the bolts are replaced. All of these engines are 100k plus block mind you so the blocks are hideous. Building an engine is not rocket science.... we hit a snag unfortunately map performance sent 7 bolt rods so I had to stop. I didnt realize until I saw the cap diameter.
     

    Attached Files:

    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi

    Street Build

    645 whp   498 lb/ft
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    pat white likes this.
  7. 90laserRSfwd

    90laserRSfwd Proven Member

    1,286
    71
    Joined Mar 5, 2007
    Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania
    If the machine shop couldn't get something as simple as PTW clearance correct (thought earlier you said you requested .0045"), I doubt the bearing clearances are going to be right.. sounds like your machinist needs replaced.
     
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  8. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

    148
    31
    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    I use the Euroexports valve spring compressor too.......sweet little setup for the $.........can get 4 done w/o moving it and can service head installed if need be........word up
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    16g   manual
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  9. donniekak

    donniekak DSM Wiseman

    4,486
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    Joined Mar 23, 2008
    Surprise, Arizona
    After you use an actual cylinder head work station on an air table you’ll never want to use any of the other tools.

    The only head tool I use is a blue point ga317 to do valve seals or springs in the car.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

      manual
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  10. amsrn13

    amsrn13 Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    It wasnt my machinist, i didnt speak with them, that is just what I shoot for. The block went through Raif at RRT. If i really want to I could finish hone the block to whatever I want.... But for what My buddies running this is plenty.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi

    Street Build

    645 whp   498 lb/ft
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  11. 90laserRSfwd

    90laserRSfwd Proven Member

    1,286
    71
    Joined Mar 5, 2007
    Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania
    Ahh ok. I was like man something is definitely not right here. If your giving them numbers and they are that far off! .003" isn't terribly tight, but I wouldn't be taking that thing over 9K or running a lot of boost though it often.. Seems like you got things under control!
     
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  12. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    for 50 bucks, I will
    Having a setup like that would be great if I was doing it constantly, but for 50 bucks and to support my hobby, and sometimes friends stuff, Im happy with the little aluminum block for now.
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    16g   manual
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  13. tharrison365

    tharrison365 Proven Member

    49
    0
    Joined Feb 25, 2013
    Galveston, Indiana
    W
     
  14. amsrn13

    amsrn13 Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    the story is..... manley put 7 bolt rods in the 6 bolt box. So map performance didnt make a mistake. Ive never seen 7 bolt rods, i cant believe how much smaller the cap thickness is. The 6 bolts have a more manley design imp :cool:. The crank is installed but I may pull it back out to hone the bores a bit more. Im back at it on wed. More to come boys
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi

    Street Build

    645 whp   498 lb/ft
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  15. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Supporting Vendor

    4,246
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    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    .003 is too tight imho. That motor has a good chance of scoring pistons. Also you need a cleaner area to assemble engines.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon N/T

    Showcar Build

    9.805 @ 144.00 MPH
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  16. amsrn13

    amsrn13 Proven Member

    1,858
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    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    Ive had varying opinions on ptw clearance using wiseco forgings. Either way, when I get back at it on wed the block will be .0045 like the rest of my engines. I have a torque plate and all the tools I need. A cleaner place.... one day. If I had the option Id assemble everything in my basement. The garage is my only option currently but i assure you every part is sportless. Every motor ive built gets soaked with mineral spirits and all the oil passages are blown through.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi

    Street Build

    645 whp   498 lb/ft
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  17. bastarddsm

    bastarddsm Supporting Vendor

    4,246
    862
    Joined Aug 26, 2003
    Mendota, Illinois
    Do you have a rigid hone? A good sunnen bore gauge and the setting fixture? It will be very difficult to get it right with out those. A three shoe flex hone, is not a rigid hone.

    Mineral spirits will cut the oil, but it really needs washed in hot soapy water. The soap helps lift the dirt and contaminants off the surface to be rinsed away. Garage building is fine, but it needs to be clean, and the doors shut. I usually clean for a day before assembling an engine, blow it all down, wash the floor, clean tools, wipe down benches, ect. Basically cleaner than if I was going to be painting. It only takes a little bit of stray dirt to ruin things.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon N/T

    Showcar Build

    9.805 @ 144.00 MPH
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  18. amsrn13

    amsrn13 Proven Member

    1,858
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    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    The last motor I did had a .020 overbore The block came back a tiny bit tighter. We are talking .0038 , I wanted .0045. I used an old headgasket and a torque plate with a 3 shoe hone. I kept the rotations equal on all 4 cylinders. Its not the best way to do it... but it worked for me.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi

    Street Build

    645 whp   498 lb/ft
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  19. donniekak

    donniekak DSM Wiseman

    4,486
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    Joined Mar 23, 2008
    Surprise, Arizona
    If you don’t want to pony up for an an-112 the lisle rigid hones work, but the stone options are limited. You’ll need a large 3/4” drive drill for either. I’d also get the hang of it on a junk block. With a good setup you’ll need a way to bolt the block down as well. A rigid hone at full tension will spin a block on the floor.

    A spring hone will follow any irregularities and can wave the surface. With a rigid hone you can feel a spot that’s .0002” tight and correct it.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

      manual
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    iugrad92turbo and Strm Trpr like this.
  20. donniekak

    donniekak DSM Wiseman

    4,486
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    Joined Mar 23, 2008
    Surprise, Arizona
    After being jet washed twice all my parts get finished washed in a parts washer with new fluid. I use simple green, distilled water, and tsp heated to around 120-140* The hot soap works amazing.

    I developed a cleanliness paranoia in Arizona where dust was everywhere.
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

      manual
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  21. amsrn13

    amsrn13 Proven Member

    1,858
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    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    That what I have, the lisle.... its a nice little piece. I also purchased a Large drill drill for it and yes I practiced on a junk block before I touched anything.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi

    Street Build

    645 whp   498 lb/ft
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  22. donniekak

    donniekak DSM Wiseman

    4,486
    741
    Joined Mar 23, 2008
    Surprise, Arizona
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

      manual
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    iugrad92turbo likes this.
  23. amsrn13

    amsrn13 Proven Member

    1,858
    461
    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi

    Street Build

    645 whp   498 lb/ft
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  24. iugrad92turbo

    iugrad92turbo Proven Member

    10,346
    338
    Joined May 22, 2007
    Kalamazoo, Michigan
    Looks good man I got a spare block ill be doing a full forged setup, not sure what pistons, rod set up, may just go big or go home kinda thing since im there.
     
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  25. amsrn13

    amsrn13 Proven Member

    1,858
    461
    Joined Dec 1, 2013
    danbury, Connecticut
    Never go home .... always go big. Youll regret it if you dont
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi

    Street Build

    645 whp   498 lb/ft
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