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Borg Warner S200 (Bullseye S256) Review

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That's my problem right now as well :(

Off topic:
well maybe we can find some ways to prepare for this kind of abuse as well. I been working on locating evoIII tranny part numbers and finding low cost transmission parts that are stronger than ours.

I have a certified master tech as a close buddy who has built many many dsm/evo tranny's and will be building mine as well. Let me know if you're interested.

Let me know if you have any ideas on how we're going to hold our cars together for this - I'm battling a few leaks, but so far the car is currently taking the 400+ HP I'm making now.

I think launching is the hardest on the car... so I stay away from doing that. What's your drive train setup like? I'm still running an ACT2600 - looking to switch to a twindisc after this one begins to slip.

On Topic:
I think I'll enjoy the extra flow of the S258 and the quicker spool of the .55 a/r. Yeah it'll work a little harder and I may have to add a pound or two of boost to make up the small A/R.... I think it's going to be a win/win situation. I want a nice wide compressor map so I don't get the surge I'm experiencing now - I think the S258 is going to be the ticket.
 
After having my S362 since May of 2007, and taking the beatings that it has on a high mileage 7bolt with high miles, 143xxx, the engine has gone a bit south. It has started to burn oil. At least I think it is, not really sure. Theres too many things happening to really know. I do like the turbo a lot. I also plan on switching to .70 or .83 A/R housing, perhaps next year.
 
On Topic:
I think I'll enjoy the extra flow of the S258 and the quicker spool of the .55 a/r. Yeah it'll work a little harder and I may have to add a pound or two of boost to make up the small A/R.... I think it's going to be a win/win situation. I want a nice wide compressor map so I don't get the surge I'm experiencing now - I think the S258 is going to be the ticket.
Waste of time. Go .70 AR on the BW S258 ,you'll have the best of both world's(especially since you have a 2.4L) and alot easier on the motor which means more reliable hp and less back pressure. You will also make the same hp with less boost. Less heat,less wear and tear on the motor. It's common sense.
 
yeah except to switch to the A/R I'm looking at spending a whole hell of a lot more money to switch everything over to a T3 setup. It's something I don't have.
 
^^^ That is true, specially since I did everything DSM bolt-on. Now I have to switch to T3. I do not even know how much it will be to switch out the turbine housing. Any one know?
 
yeah except to switch to the A/R I'm looking at spending a whole hell of a lot more money to switch everything over to a T3 setup. It's something I don't have.

AWDer is using the .55 a/r DSM bolt-on housing. He says he's getting 50 lbs/min at about 33psi and E85. It's only a 2 liter and he's at a zillion feet altitude. S258 with .55 a/r sounds ok to me! Check out these crazy guys running only a .48 a/r 50 trim on a 2.4 liter SRT4:

50trim .48 back half DYNO! - SRT Forums - SRT4, SRT6, SRT8, SRT10 & Dodge Forum

Gary
 
Off topic:
well maybe we can find some ways to prepare for this kind of abuse as well. I been working on locating evoIII tranny part numbers and finding low cost transmission parts that are stronger than ours.

I have a certified master tech as a close buddy who has built many many dsm/evo tranny's and will be building mine as well. Let me know if you're interested.

Let me know if you have any ideas on how we're going to hold our cars together for this - I'm battling a few leaks, but so far the car is currently taking the 400+ HP I'm making now.

I think launching is the hardest on the car... so I stay away from doing that. What's your drive train setup like? I'm still running an ACT2600 - looking to switch to a twindisc after this one begins to slip.

On Topic:
I think I'll enjoy the extra flow of the S258 and the quicker spool of the .55 a/r. Yeah it'll work a little harder and I may have to add a pound or two of boost to make up the small A/R.... I think it's going to be a win/win situation. I want a nice wide compressor map so I don't get the surge I'm experiencing now - I think the S258 is going to be the ticket.

Does your tech friend work for O'Daniel Mitsubishi by any chance? I noticed you're near that area.

My car is currently on the stock tranny with a Fidanza 4.3 clutch and an ACT chromoly flywheel. I'll agree that launching is very hard on the car, especially the center diff, so I've been sticking to pulls (especially since I'm still tuning). The problem with this is that the 3rd and 4th gear slider is somewhat weak--not to mention the freak occurence of something else in that area breaking: rail, fork, hub, hell even a freak accident like the gear itself breaking. That's what's really keeping me from turning up the boost right now.

yeah except to switch to the A/R I'm looking at spending a whole hell of a lot more money to switch everything over to a T3 setup. It's something I don't have.

I agree with you here--money is usually better spent elsewhere. Once the benefit of switching to a T3 exceeds the cost to do so via other means, then I would realistically consider it. Hell, I'm still on a SMIC if that gives you any indication of things I need!

^^^ That is true, specially since I did everything DSM bolt-on. Now I have to switch to T3. I do not even know how much it will be to switch out the turbine housing. Any one know?

Bullseye sells the other housings separately if you're interested, but IIRC it was fairly expensive--in the 250 dollar range. I still have my .85 A/R T3 with the 6-bolt BW discharge laying around if you're interested in that.
 
yeah except to switch to the A/R I'm looking at spending a whole hell of a lot more money to switch everything over to a T3 setup. It's something I don't have.

Your mod list shows that you have a coated FP mani. You could easily sell that off for a couple hundred bucks along with your turbo and o2 housing. The ERL cast stainless T3 manifold is $500. The new turbo costs the same whether you get it with the .70 T3 or the bolt-on housing. JMF or Punishment can make you an o2 housing that'll bolt to your DP. You're talking about a difference of a few hundred dollars, tops. How much do you have invested in your car? Is it really worth skimping on a couple hundred dollars in an area that can give you the most gain per dollar spent?
 
Bullseye sells the other housings separately if you're interested, but IIRC it was fairly expensive--in the 250 dollar range. I still have my .85 A/R T3 with the 6-bolt BW discharge laying around if you're interested in that.


2g, your .85 a/r housing, that's a twin scroll isn't it?
Maybe you've noticed, over on the evo side of the planet there is some twin scroll mania going on right now. Evolutionm.net. Full race is making manifolds. Geoff @ Fullrace is gung-ho enthused about them. They get expensive, 2 wastegates! Now I see they're making one with one wastegate. I think somebody is making them for DSMs too. Shearer or Kaizen or VIP or Full Race. Anyway, .85 a/r twin scroll should be kinda like .55 a/r single scroll spool wise but make a little more power, or something like that.

Gary
 
Your mod list shows that you have a coated FP mani. You could easily sell that off for a couple hundred bucks along with your turbo and o2 housing. The ERL cast stainless T3 manifold is $500. The new turbo costs the same whether you get it with the .70 T3 or the bolt-on housing. JMF or Punishment can make you an o2 housing that'll bolt to your DP. You're talking about a difference of a few hundred dollars, tops. How much do you have invested in your car? Is it really worth skimping on a couple hundred dollars in an area that can give you the most gain per dollar spent?

Totally Understand where you're coming from. I'm doing a trade-in on my turbo, that's because I've already arranged that with Dave @ BEP. We have an arrangement for the turbo set up.

I don't have an external wastegate, which I'd like to do if I were to go all out with this set up. I also believe that the FP manifold is by far the best cast manifold design out there. Selling the coated manifold and the O2 would probably yield $4-500 or so.

New manifold $500, $250+ for a 38mm Tial, plus $225+ for a new O2 housing... so roughly it's another $500 or so. On top of the cost of the new turbo.

My point is how much difference is it actually going to make? I am a believer in efficiency. I do understand that the T3 housing is going to be more efficient and yield slightly better numbers, however, I will NOT be pushing my motor or this turbo to the ragged edge. I'll be running at probably 60-75% capacity. Is the extra $500ish worth that?

IF it's really that bad, IF it's going to make a HUGE difference and not like 10hp or something small... (this is a street car mind you, I'd favor spool over high power) I can always switch to it down the road. If this turbo yields 500awhp 500lbs tq @ or below 30psi then there is absolutely no reason to switch. I could use that $500 towards a new set of coilovers, tires, or paint that I need to make this car DONE. Do you see it from my side to? Trust me, I haven't "skimped" on anything in this car. It's all very, very real parts that cost a whole lot... I'm getting tired of investing.
 
2g, your .85 a/r housing, that's a twin scroll isn't it?
Maybe you've noticed, over on the evo side of the planet there is some twin scroll mania going on right now. Evolutionm.net. Full race is making manifolds. Geoff @ Fullrace is gung-ho enthused about them. They get expensive, 2 wastegates! Now I see they're making one with one wastegate. I think somebody is making them for DSMs too. Shearer or Kaizen or VIP or Full Race. Anyway, .85 a/r twin scroll should be kinda like .55 a/r single scroll spool wise but make a little more power, or something like that.

Gary

It is indeed the twin scroll. From what I've researched though, the divided housings are much more restrictive than an open housing--e.g. a T4 divided .70 is supposed to actually flow worse than a .83 T3 open. This is all secondhand information from DSMLink User Group Forums though, so take it for what it's worth.

I do wonder how much more power it would actually make though. It's most definitely less restrictive than the BEP bolt on .55 housing though just from looking at the the volute size of the two housings.

When you have your car finished, please post your logs from tuning. Seeing how you have every other mod known to man, it'll be interesting to see how limited you are by the bolt on housing. No FMIC and no SMIM is keeping my VE artificially low, so I can't offer you any concrete input.
 
I'll do my best - I'll gladly share any information possible. I've built this car from the ground up, all stock, myself.

I'll post pics, logs from link, and dyno numbers as soon as I have them available to me.

Oh, and the tech works @ Ray Skilman Mitsu in Indy. He used to work @ Family Mitsu Down there.
 
Another option is the Turbonetics/Treadstone cast T3 manifolds. Not as nice as the ERL, but only 300 brand new if you need to pinch pennies. I have the S362 in the T3 .70 V-Band housing. I would never run a turbo this size in a bolt on.
 
AWDer is using the .55 a/r DSM bolt-on housing. He says he's getting 50 lbs/min at about 33psi and E85. It's only a 2 liter and he's at a zillion feet altitude. S258 with .55 a/r sounds ok to me! Check out these crazy guys running only a .48 a/r 50 trim on a 2.4 liter SRT4:

50trim .48 back half DYNO! - SRT Forums - SRT4, SRT6, SRT8, SRT10 & Dodge Forum

Gary



Thanks for the info - actually gives me a little light @ the end of my tunnel for what I'm trying to do. :)

:dsm:
 
Thanks for the info - actually gives me a little light @ the end of my tunnel for what I'm trying to do. :)

:dsm:

Good deal. I just finished rereading that SRT thread myself. It's pretty entertaining.
Didja notice they can use whatever they want for avatars over there. Wish we could do that here.

By the way, if you want to find out more about AWDer's setup than what's in his thread, check in with biglady112. He knows all about AWDer's car and is very helpful. He doesn't like to spend a lot of time writing but he is very helpful on the phone.

Gary
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 95GSXBLUR View Post
Thanks for the info - actually gives me a little light @ the end of my tunnel for what I'm trying to do.

Good deal. I just finished rereading that SRT thread myself. It's pretty entertaining.
Didja notice they can use whatever they want for avatars over there. Wish we could do that here.

By the way, if you want to find out more about AWDer's setup than what's in his thread, check in with biglady112. He knows all about AWDer's car and is very helpful. He doesn't like to spend a lot of time writing but he is very helpful on the phone.

Gary

Or you could just ask me or pm me directly. ;) I also own a phone. LOL I may even know more about my setup than Steve.

Josh
 
Just got my S258... :D

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Hopefully the plan is for everything to go on tomorrow. :dsm:
 
Sure do. It'll be it's downside @ 500+hp.

But I'm going to run it right around 500-550. When I switch to an external gate, I'll more than likely switch to a T3 .70 a/r housing and a 44mm Vband gate.
 
Sure do. It'll be it's downside @ 500+hp.

But I'm going to run it right around 500-550. When I switch to an external gate, I'll more than likely switch to a T3 .70 a/r housing and a 44mm Vband gate.

More than one person has discussed the limitations of the .55 A/R bolt on housing before. I wish you the best of luck but by that point backpressure in the housing is something to seriously consider.

If you feel up to it, get some logs before and while you're going to try a "go for broke" dyno run to compare VE estimations and see just how much you're hurting.
 
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