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Borg Warner S200 (Bullseye S256) Review

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Looks like s258 for me w/ a dose of E85.

Tax check should be here any day now.. I'll report back with some numbers here.

Can you use the Oil Drain say... one for a T04B V trim for S256/8 as well? or will I have to get a new flange/bolts
 
Looks like s258 for me w/ a dose of E85.

Tax check should be here any day now.. I'll report back with some numbers here.

Can you use the Oil Drain say... one for a T04B V trim for S256/8 as well? or will I have to get a new flange/bolts

Only the bolts. The flange itself fits exactly as it should.
 
Now the question is, do you need to run an inline oil filter AND/OR oil restrictor?
 
Oil pressure is going to be limited by the smallest orifice that the oil has to pass through. Run the oil filter because it's a good idea, and if you use the flange then, well, you end up with a restrictor anyways.
 
I can't wait for my 362 t4 to get here and lay into it it with the stroker and meth.. :sneaky:
 
Ok, help me out here. I have the DSM bolt-on, 0.55 A/R housing. How does that compare to a t3 or t4 type?
 
It's smaller both in A/R and volute size, and bolts on to a DSM flanged manifold. What are your goals? ~400 whp will absolutely be fine with the bolt on housing, but once you start getting close to 500 I have a feeling the small turbine housing will cause some significant backpressure issues.

No one has tried yet though, so it's uncertain when the bolt on housing really starts becoming a restriction.
 
There has been more than one person that has made 600whp on bolt on housings...... but.. just because it has been done do not mean it should be done. Reaching that level of horsepower there has to be alot of back pressure.
 
There has been more than one person that has made 600whp on bolt on housings...... but.. just because it has been done do not mean it should be done. Reaching that level of horsepower there has to be alot of back pressure.

Not to mention that the smaller AR lowers VE at high rpms, meaning to reach a given power level you'd have to run higher boost than if you had a larger turbine housing. This means lower knock threshold and a smaller tuning window. Sure, it's been done and it "can" be done, and I've been very vocal in the past about how the BEP bolt-on housing is a great alternative and not the POS some people make it out to be. That being said, now that I've owned a 256 bolt-on and a 258 in the .70 T3, I think unless you're on an EXTREME budget, just go big. It doesn't cost much more, it makes way more power at the same boost level, and it leaves you lots of options if you want to upgrade turbos later.
 
doesn't the smaller A/R allow for quicker spool? I plan on hitting 500+awhp - I'm using the FP manifold, which I like a whole lot better than all the other manifolds - I really don't want to change it out for a T3 setup - because yes it adds to cost. I wonder if there is anyway we can get an FP30 housing on this turbo... that'd be the ticket I think.

Hell, I still have to run an internal gate for a little bit until I can afford to switch my O2 housing and downpipe - it'd be nice to see if we could do something with the FP30 housing, or if BEP could build a bigger A/R bolt-on housing - I know they're working on one for the S300 series, that'd HAVE to be bigger right? Maybe we could adapt that one as well?


Just throwing out ideas.
 
Yes a bolt on housing should spool faster. But that doesn't really matter in a drag race. The bolton housing will also have a higher chance of creating knock.

Once you have the money to go external why don't you sell your current manifold, o2 housing, and turbine housing. Then you will have close to enough money for a t3 housing, manifold, external gat, and o2 housing. And this way the waste gate can be mounted to the manifold collector.
 
I have reached 402 on a dynojet on pump gas on about 21psi. I will have by long block built in a couple of months, so I am just wondering how "bad" will it be to keep the bolt-on housing. I have a DNP manifold and SLP o2 housing. Yes, its externally gated at the o2. I guess I will need to buy those 2 things to "upgrade", huh?
If so, does any one have any suggestions on what brand to buy on those 2 things?
 
doesn't the smaller A/R allow for quicker spool? I plan on hitting 500+awhp - I'm using the FP manifold, which I like a whole lot better than all the other manifolds - I really don't want to change it out for a T3 setup - because yes it adds to cost.

Yes, the smaller AR makes the turbo spool faster, but the trade-off is negligible compared to the power you can gain. You could also correctly size the turbo to spool where you want instead of buying a too-big turbo stuffed into a too-small hotside just to make it spool where you want.

I wonder if there is anyway we can get an FP30 housing on this turbo... that'd be the ticket I think. it'd be nice to see if we could do something with the FP30 housing, or if BEP could build a bigger A/R bolt-on housing - I know they're working on one for the S300 series, that'd HAVE to be bigger right? Maybe we could adapt that one as well?

Despite all the hype, both the FP and BEP housings have made just over 600whp fully choked out. I don't think it would be worth the effort even if it were possible. BEP talked about making a larger AR bolt-on housing a long time ago and dropped the idea because they didn't think they'd sell enough of them. The S300 series is currently available in the bolt-on housing, it's the same size as all the other BEP bolt-on housings.
 
It should also be noted it will run hotter cramming all that exhaust into smaller AR's. It was sort of touched on with the knock comment. So really despite the fact it may spool a *touch* quicker the restriction it can cause will not help it any, and in fact lost any benefit it had to begin with over a big power, free breathing unit. So me having a 2.3 should spool a t4 pretty well, add onto that it's a divided housing which will also help, at the end of the day you can design a system to spool nicely and still breath easy, but it will cost you, then again, this is a DSM, its GONNA cost you.. :sneaky:
 
Despite all the hype, both the FP and BEP housings have made just over 600whp fully choked out. I don't think it would be worth the effort even if it were possible. BEP talked about making a larger AR bolt-on housing a long time ago and dropped the idea because they didn't think they'd sell enough of them. The S300 series is currently available in the bolt-on housing, it's the same size as all the other BEP bolt-on housings.

OK - so with all the hype we're talking about here...

I'm building a street car - not a "race" car. I'll be using pump gas - either E85 or 93 with Meth injection.

I understand that a t3 or a t4 is going to make "more" power, it may sacrifice a little spool.. who cares. I run a 2.4l - it's going to spool just fine I'm sure. If I wanted to go all out power crazy, I'd run something even bigger GT42R, S356, etc.

I guess what I was trying to target in this conversation, was streetability. I understand the .55A/R might yield slightly lower numbers - but it's compatible with what I have. I can easily add an O2 mounted external wastegate. I don't need to have it off the collector, because I won't be by-passing that much air. The target is 30-35psi... the wastegate won't be doing much of anything.

ok, so it runs slightly hotter - meth or E85 will make it colder, not to mention the 12x24x3.5 bar and plate intercooler that I'm running with short route piping. I RARELY see intake temperatures 10+ over ambient on regular pump gas even @ 20-24psi.

My points are that this turbo will allow me to bolt it up, turn in on, and go. All while having quick spool, producing 500+awhp numbers on some form of pump fuel.

Does anyone have any comments other wise? Anyone believe that this is unachievable with an S258? IMO I believe that this turbo is going to put me right where I want to be, low 11's maybe even high 10's - and perform on the street.
 
95GSXBLUR said:
ok, so it runs slightly hotter - meth or E85 will make it colder, not to mention the 12x24x3.5 bar and plate intercooler that I'm running with short route piping. I RARELY see intake temperatures 10+ over ambient on regular pump gas even @ 20-24psi.

The turbine housing will run hotter because of the increased back pressure. The heat will then transfer from the turbine housing to the head and exhaust valves. This will give you a greater chance of knocking. We weren't talking about the intake air being hotter, but it will be hotter since you will need more boost with the bolton housing to make the same power.
 
I understand that a t3 or a t4 is going to make "more" power, it may sacrifice a little spool.. who cares. I run a 2.4l - it's going to spool just fine I'm sure. If I wanted to go all out power crazy, I'd run something even bigger GT42R, S356, etc.

My points are that this turbo will allow me to bolt it up, turn in on, and go. All while having quick spool, producing 500+awhp numbers on some form of pump fuel.

Does anyone have any comments other wise? Anyone believe that this is unachievable with an S258? IMO I believe that this turbo is going to put me right where I want to be, low 11's maybe even high 10's - and perform on the street.

Given that you have a 2.4, that's even more arguement for going with a larger hotside. If you insist on a bolt-on, I'd skip the 258 and go right to the 362. The bigger compressor wheel will more more air at less shaft speed, meaning the turbine wheel doesn't have to spin as fast, therefore more gas can bypass the restrictive hotside through the wastegate. You'll also have alot more room to grow if you ever do a T3 or T4 manifold later.
 
what if I'm only trying to top out @ 500whp? That's 100 less than it's capable of. I've been building this car for 4 or 5 years now and I'd almost like to move on. This is the last turbo I'd like to buy.

To work with the things I have - do you guys will do the job, without a whole lot of difficulty?
 
GSXBLUR, you've probably seen these threads already. But if not, they are very good. The Honda tech thread, good all the way through, on about page 3 some BW guys get into it with I think some very accurate comments, and they discuss the S3XX quite a bit. Remember though, it's a honda test car (better breathing heads)

Honda-Tech.com: Forced Induction: Turbo shootout results: BW S256 vs GT3076R

And this comparo, which was a lot gentler because it was done on customer cars which the tuner didn't want to blow up!

BorgWarner S256 Dyno Results! - evolutionm.net

Gary
 
what if I'm only trying to top out @ 500whp? That's 100 less than it's capable of. I've been building this car for 4 or 5 years now and I'd almost like to move on. This is the last turbo I'd like to buy.

To work with the things I have - do you guys will do the job, without a whole lot of difficulty?

BW ET50 Trim Dyno - evolutionm.net

Been there, done that. this turbo will do it and then some!
 
BW ET50 Trim Dyno - evolutionm.net

Been there, done that. this turbo will do it and then some!

+1 ^ MadMSheen 2.3 liter car got insane results on the S256.
Dyno shows 500 whp before 5500 rpm! And way down at 4000 rpm it's already making 250 whp. It was a .70 a/r T3 housing though. Meth, VIP Header, 31psi.... Hope you don't mind Marti if I paste in what you told me about this car:

We got these numbers out of the .70 A/R single entry housing and wouldn't go any other way on a T3 based system.

If you were looking to go with the DSM setup then needless to say the .55 is the only real way to go. The .55 would do nicely with the DSM setup on a 2.0L. It's netted us well into the 400whp range and the top end on these turbos are insane! They just keep pulling and pulling.

(Note, Marti's comment on 2.0L was because my car is a 2.0L.)

Gary
 
I think that on the 2.4 with an S258 on E85 running 30psi I'll easily hit 500-550 awhp and torque. I also believe that this turbo will spool very quickly... right around the 4000 mark.

I'm waiting for Dave @ BEP to get more compressor covers in, however, as soon as I get the turbo, get tuned... I'll post pictures, a tune, and any results. Not too many AWD dynos around here - I'll have to make a trip to Chicago or over to Buschur.

I just hope the rest of my car is ready for this kind of power.
 
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