2G BlackBox ECU MapSwitching Via ToggleSwitch

[MasterP]

Hello,

I have searched the forums for a how to write up on how to wire up my BlackBox to allow me to use the MapSwitching feature and can't find anything. To my knowledge I have to use pin #44 on the ECU but what do I do to it? Simply add a pin & ground it to the body to use the other map in the BlackBox ECU? How do I switch maps once able to? Use a toggle switch to ground the pin & turn the car off?

I'm looking to get my car tuned on e85 & pump gas so I'd like to be able to switch maps once tuned to switch between e85 & pump gas.

 

[tylersevo]

I'm also interested in a solid answer as I planned on doing the same thing via a toggle switch

 

[MasterP]

That's my plan. I plan to use a toggle switch with a LED light to know when i'm on mt E85 tune instead of my pump gas tune but I'm confused as to how map switching is installed/setup on BlackBox.

 

[tylersevo]

Between the tuner and myself we'll figure it out and I'll post it up for you. Give me a couple weeks..6 bolt going in as we speak

 

[MasterP]

No help guys?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I read on one post last week or so on a ECU that had a "odd wire" coming out of it (with pictures) and the answer to that post was to ground the wire to switch between tunes. I have a black box 1998 Talon also that I just acquired so I was interested in the article myself since I could put a flash tune into it. Hope this helps some. So since you have to ground it to switch the tunes, the LED needs to be "hot" all the time and grounded when you are on that particular tune in order to light it.

 

[Cooper-97gst]

Interested in this as well. More than that tho, I'm interested in hooking up a flex fuel sensor.(if possible) that way I don't have to worry about hitting a switch or running the tank empty before switching.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Flex fuel is pretty straight forward and easy. I have it in the '90 with the plug and play harness. You must have a good base tune then copy that map from MaxOct to the MinOct then tune for E85 on the MaxOct map. Then you have to tell it to use both maps. I am working on that part right now.

 

[MasterP]

Hey,

Thanks for the input guys. I'm not sure of the "Odd Wire" you are referring to Talon. Can you farther explain this? A link would be awesome if you can post the link.

Cooper, I had the same idea just last week. It's possible to wire in a Flex Fuel Sensor to measure ethanol content in E85 but it's impossible to have an auto adjusting map that will allow you make the car Flex Fuel compatible so you can mix E85 & gas in the same tank & expect your tune to adjust for the amount of ethanol content & gas in your fuel system. I'm told you can do this on DSMLink V3 Full but I was told tuning this would be difficult with the ever changing factors & fuel content. I maybe wrong but I think it would be impossible to do on BlackBox. So our only option is to run the tank empty or drain the tank then switch fuels & maps via a switch, if possible.

 

[steve]

The 98/99 black box ECUs don't have an EPROM that you can jimmy the address lines to, to switch between different versions of the ECU software. That's what the wire does on that other ECU.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Thanks Steve, I didn't have it bookmarked to reference that post, so that was not a stock ECU in the other post then I assume?

 

[MasterP]

Steve,

So in-car MapSwitching is impossible then with BlackBox ECU? I've heard it could be done by using the cruise control somehow. Something along the lines of deleting the cruise control to wire into the ECU to switch maps & know what mal you are on via the cruise control light. I guess that's only on a BlackBox Evo that it could be done in, if that is correct?

 

[steve]

What I'm saying is that you're not going to be doing it via an EPROM address hack.

On the flash based ECU's you'll have to find an open/unused input pin and then write/borrow code to implement the function in software, reading the status of the input and switching tables. Then flashing your new software.

 

[steve]

Thanks Steve, I didn't have it bookmarked to reference that post, so that was not a stock ECU in the other post then I assume?

That ECU had been modified. A stock ECU doesn't use all of the EPROM space, some of the address bits are hardwired to 1's.

This modification cut's the connection to +5, installs a pullup and provides a wire to pull the bit low. It's on a high order bit so the whole range of addresses in the EPROM changes location. There are then two software images with different maps that are being switched on the fly. The rest of the code has to be the same or the ECU will crash.

There are other hardware modifications that connect the (missing) address lines off the CPU to the EPROM so the CPU can address a larger portion of the EPROM.

 

[MasterP]

What I'm saying is that you're not going to be doing it via an EPROM address hack.

On the flash based ECU's you'll have to find an open/unused input pin and then write/borrow code to implement the function in software, reading the status of the input and switching tables. Then flashing your new software.

As in using a unused ECU pin such as pin #44 on a 2G BlackBox via a toggle switch to ground that pin to switch to an alternate set of maps? Sorry, I'm a little confused on how to do this since you are saying it is possible. I know the BlackBox ECU has 2 sets of maps it holds from reading up about CeddyMods, just didn't know how to switch them. I will have a tuner tune those 2 maps but it seems they will have to do some coding in order to switch to the other map to tune it?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

That ECU had been modified. A stock ECU doesn't use all of the EPROM space, some of the address bits are hardwired to 1's.

This modification cut's the connection to +5, installs a pullup and provides a wire to pull the bit low. It's on a high order bit so the whole range of addresses in the EPROM changes location. There are then two software images with different maps that are being switched on the fly. The rest of the code has to be the same or the ECU will crash.

There are other hardware modifications that connect the (missing) address lines off the CPU to the EPROM so the CPU can address a larger portion of the EPROM.

Great explaination Steve! I appreciate the in depth info and you are quite good with it. I USED to be a programmer waaaayyyy back in the day of 8088 IBM's and 386 and 486 machines with DOS, RPGII, FORTRAN, BASIC and a few others....I'm tellin on my age!

 

[MasterP]

Steve,

So this means in order to switch maps via a switch that grounds a pin the BlackBox ECU will still have to be reflashed to fully change maps?

Where can I get this code? Will I have to have it coded up by a tuner?

 

[steve]

In my opinion, the DSM black box ECUs are for technical DYI people. The EVO ECU has much better support and options that suit the copy and paste crowd.

 

[donniegst]

I'm guessing that it's along the same lines as mine

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[patkelley]

In my opinion, the DSM black box ECUs are for technical DYI people. The EVO ECU has much better support and options that suit the copy and paste crowd.

I agree with this - I use the '99 ECU with CeddyMods in my 97 GSX only because I got one for $50 and I'm familiar with ECU flash via my '06 Evo MR and '10 Evo SE. There is way more support and options with the Evo ECU and it's not hard to adapt to the DSMs. If you need more than a tuning reflash for a modded car, you really need to go to an Evo ECU.

 

[steve]

I'm guessing that it's along the same lines as mine

They've been talking about yours.

 

[MasterP]

I'm guessing that it's along the same lines as mine

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This is exactly what I'm looking for.

In my opinion, the DSM black box ECUs are for technical DYI people. The EVO ECU has much better support and options that suit the copy and paste crowd.

Steve, thanks for clarifying. I'm not familiar with the Evo ECU and I thought the ECUs were the same from DSM to Evo as long as they were BlackBox ECUs. I guess that thought is completely WRONG. Is a Evo ECU a direct plug and play option for us 2g DSM owners? I wasn't looking to tune my own car but if it's simple I wouldn't mind trying to tune my own car with EvoScan.

 

[MasterP]

I'm guessing that it's along the same lines as mine

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Care to explain how this was done and how you switch maps Donnie?

 

[donniegst]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/random-wire-in-ecu.495687/#post-153534915



This is where it was explained to me

 

[MasterP]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/random-wire-in-ecu.495687/#post-153534915



This is where it was explained to me

Donnie,

That's a 2G EPROM ECU & not a BlackBox ECU correct? If that's a EPROM ECU how was it tuned for 1050s without DSMLink? I didn't know it was possible to tune a EPROM ECU without Link.