Audio gurus, few questions about my setup.

[forcefed86]

Setup on bottom of post.

So I want to know if I can run the door speakers on the head units rear channel, and dash speakers on the fwd channel. Then either run the sub rca outputs to my amp powering my 6x9's. Or just tap the door speaker speaker wires and run those to the amp.

Theory is (and I may be wrong!) I'm trying to not split the wattage for the door and dash speakers. If I just tap the rear speaker wires and run them to the amp will that still draw current/watts from the head unit? Ideally I'd like as much wattage to the door and dash speakers as I can, but would still like to retain the 6x9's sound quality on all frequencies.

If I run the 6x9's with the sub outlet is there a way to pick up high and mid signals as well as bass lows?

Hope that made sense. I'm no stereo guy.

Thanks!


1993 talon. TSI

Head unit is a 50w per channel peak. 18w rms.

I had some 5.25" rockford fosgates 2-35watt RMS (Under powered a bit I know, but free)

Boss 4" 20w rms 50 peak for the front.

Sound stream SST-6.9's 150rms 300 peak.

D400.2 DIABLO 2-CHANNEL 800 Watt MOSFET AMP 2 channel 150rms @ 4 ohm.

 

[PXHero]

So I want to know if I can run the door speakers on the head units rear channel, and dash speakers on the fwd channel. Then either run the sub rca outputs to my amp powering my 6x9's. Or just tap the door speaker speaker wires and run those to the amp.

If you use the sub outs on your radio to push your 6x9's you will only get bass out of them, and probably a lower frequency than they can handle. Kicker made some 6x9 subs a while ago, but they are no longer in production. Why do you want to run your dash tweeters on the front channel? Just get some components, and put the tweeters up there.

Theory is (and I may be wrong!) I'm trying to not split the wattage for the door and dash speakers. If I just tap the rear speaker wires and run them to the amp will that still draw current/watts from the head unit? Ideally I'd like as much wattage to the door and dash speakers as I can, but would still like to retain the 6x9's sound quality on all frequencies.

If you wire your door speakers to the front channel, and your rear speakers to the rear channel, you will not be loosing any power. If you run your dash speakers on the front, and your doors and rears on the rear, then you will have full power to your dash, and roughly half the power to all your other speakers. Your dash speakers are really just tweeters. Either loose the dash speakers, get a crossover so you can put the dash speakers and door speakers on the same channel, or get components.

Please, don't run your amp power through the door jamb. Please don't ground your amp to the seat brackets/bolts, scrape the paint, and use a sharp screw into bare metal.

Since you're using a 2 channel, you're really only going to be able to fully power one pair of speakers. Please, get a 4 channel amp. You're going to be much more satisfied, and you can then use the 2 channel to push some subs!

If you have a factory amp, then you'll need to bypass it, or interface with it.

If you are going the bypass route, then find the amp (under the front passenger seat), and determine the speaker inputs (usually the smaller wires, easy way to test is use your aftermarket wiring harness to determine the colors of the factory wiring) Your speaker outputs are easily found because they will be the same color as the wires at the speakers. Once you have located your speaker wires, you are going to want to cut them. If you are using the 2-channel to power your speakers, then I recommend you use it on your door speakers since they will be "closer" to your ears. Just wire the outputs from the amp to the speaker outs at the factory amp. Then connect your rear outputs from the radio to the rear outputs from the factory amp. If you're interfacing it, then you'll just use the RCA's on the aftermarket harness for the rear outputs.

If you're going the interface route, you'll want to run your amp RCA's from the front outputs on the radio to the amp, then run the outputs to the front outputs on the factory amp. Again, you'll want to disconnect the speaker outs from the factory amp before wiring into them.

Again, I recommend you purchase a 4 channel. This will make your install MUCH EASIER!

 

[forcefed86]

Don't think your understanding totally. I'm not leaving the factory speaker wiring. So the front channel will not be split between the doors and dash.

If you wire your door speakers to the front channel, and your rear speakers to the rear channel, you will not be loosing any power. If you run your dash speakers on the front, and your doors and rears on the rear, then you will have full power to your dash, and roughly half the power to all your other speakers. Your dash speakers are really just tweeters. Either loose the dash speakers, get a crossover so you can put the dash speakers and door speakers on the same channel, or get components.

My stereo only pushes 19 watts per channel rms, 50 peak. The 4 inch dash speakers are not tweaters. They are a two way speaker and they are 20w rms and 50 peak. This is why they need the full wattage the deck provides on it's fwd channels to sound properly.

Same with the door speakers.

There is no factory amp. I'm basically working with 20w per speaker. So The dash speakers will each have 20w and the door speakers will both have 20w? Not sure how your doing your math?

Here is my question.

Can I tap the fwd or rear speaker outs to run to my amp? Since the amp is just picking up a signal and amplifying it. Will this draw wattage from the head unit and take it away from what ever speaker I'm tapping?

For example if I am running the dash speakers on the front channels. Then run a tap to the amp for the rear 6x9's, will this lower the amount of wattage available from the deck (19w rms) to the dash speakers.

Don't need help with wiring. Appreciate the concern.

 

[PXHero]

I guess I don't understand why you are putting two way speakers in your dash and doors instead of a good pair of components, but you should be able to run them on the front, and the doors on the rears, and you should be fine with running the rears off the RCA outs.

The math on the speakers was 20W to the dash speakers, and 20W split between the doors and the rears, which would give you roughly 10W per pair of speakers. I thought at the time that you had a 4 channel, or were running all of them from the radio... my apologies for any confusion/frustration/etc...

Hope this helped!

 

[BlackNtTalon]

Don't think your understanding totally.



My stereo only pushes 19 watts per channel rms, 50 peak. The 4 inch dash speakers are not tweaters. They are a two way speaker and they need are 20w rms sand 50 peak. This is why they need the full wattage the deck provides on it's fwd channels to sound properly.

Same with the door speakers.

There is no factory amp. I'm basically working with 20w per speaker. So The dash speakers will each have 20w and the door speakers will both have 20w? Not sure how your doing your math?

Here is my question.

Can I tap the fwd or rear speaker outs to run to my amp? Since the amp is just picking up a signal and amplifying it. Will this draw wattage from the head unit and take it away from what ever speaker I'm tapping?

For example if I am running the dash speakers on the front channels. Then run a tap to the amp for the rear 6x9's, will this lower the amount of wattage available from the deck (19w rms) to the dash speakers.

Don't need help with wiring. Appreciate the concern.

As long as you are running an aftermarket head unit with "Pre-Outs" there is no need to tap into speaker outputs, as you can use the pre-outs to add an amplifier. If you do not have and aftermarket head unit you will require a "Line Out Converter" which ties into a ground and rear speaker outputs which will give you the signal you need to amplify your 6x9"s. Tying or tapping into speakers without a Line Out Converter can cause damage to your head unit and possibly cause it to go into protection. Hope this helps.

 

[brownfinger]

Ideally, the best-sounding set-up is the simplest: 1 pair of top-quality 6 1/2" components in the doors (you could put the tweets in the dash, but I like to keep them as close as possible to the mids), and 1 large (12" or bigger) sub, all running off of 1 4-channel amp ( or 2 2-channel amps ). This would require a head with multiple pre-outs and an internal x-over, or an amp with a switchable internal crossover.

It sounds like your head unit only has one pre-out, and it's a dedicated sub output. You could just plug all 4 front speakers into the factory wiring, but then it would be a 2-ohm load. While this would double the power-output of the head-unit, it would also likely fry your front channels, and those 4-inchers, too. I bet you a dollar those 4"ers won't last that long anyway.

Honestly, it sounds like all of the stuff you have doesn't add-up to a good system. If you amped the 6x9s, all your sound would be comming from behind you, and that sounds like butt. So, you could sell your amp. Or you could use the door and rear speakers off the deck's amp, throw-out the 4"ers, and run a sub off the amp. That sounds like your cheapest bet to get the sounds you want.

 

[forcefed86]

I guess I don't understand why you are putting two way speakers in your dash and doors instead of a good pair of components, but you should be able to run them on the front, and the doors on the rears, and you should be fine with running the rears off the RCA outs.

The math on the speakers was 20W to the dash speakers, and 20W split between the doors and the rears, which would give you roughly 10W per pair of speakers. I thought at the time that you had a 4 channel, or were running all of them from the radio... my apologies for any confusion/frustration/etc...

Hope this helped!

Thanks guys I think I got it now.

So I do have an aftermarket head unit with RCA outs and a sub out. Using no RCA outs at the moment. Since the door speakers are larger I'd want the most wattage possible from the head unit going to these. So if I used my front speaker RCA outs to supply the 2 channel amp with signal for the 6x9's will this still divide my wattage by 2? IE 10w for the dash speakers and 10w to the amp? Will the amp really draw half the wattage? Why? Isn't it just picking up a signal?

And to add to the confusion both the 6x9's come with cross overs. Do I really need to install these?

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[lnewton1974]

the best thing do do is to run a good crossover, i have a pioneer crossover that outputs for front and rear and sub uotputs that you can set the gain separate on each of them for more power to which ever speaker yu want it to go to. so if you want more power to the door speakers all you have to do is set the gain a little higher on that one. just ask you local car stereo guy for any additional advice. the system i run in my eclipse i have won many shows with it and have hit up to 151 dbs with it.

 

[forcefed86]

This is no competition car. I'd just like some good sound with what I have. Done spending money on it.

But since my AMP has a built in cross over, I could use the 2 that came with the 6x9's somewhere else? possibly inline with the amp lowering the wattage going to the amp? This would allow more wattage to the other speakers? On possibly inline with the front speakers turning them all the way up?

 

[brownfinger]

This is no competition car. I'd just like some good sound with what I have. Done spending money on it.

But since my AMP has a built in cross over, I could use the 2 that came with the 6x9's somewhere else? possibly inline with the amp lowering the wattage going to the amp? This would allow more wattage to the other speakers? On possibly inline with the front speakers turning them all the way up?

No offence whatsoever intended here, but: There is some extremely basic ellectrical theory/audio set-up knowledge that you seem to be missing.

The crossover that comes with those 6x9s can only be used with those speakers. You can't use those speakers without using the x-over. Either the tweeter won't work, or you'll fry the tweeter.

The crossover that Inewton1974 mentioned is an active crossover that manipulates the signal-level (RCA) output between the head unit and the amp. You sound like you already have 2 of those; one in the head-unit, one in the amp. You are then misunderstanding something if you think that hooking up your amp will reduce the wattage output by the head-unit's internal amp.

If you hooked-up one pair of 4-ohm speakers to your deck, it would put-out 35W per channel into 2 channels. If you hook-up two pairs to 4 channels, you get 18w x4. If you hooked-up TWO pairs of 4-ohm speakers to ONE pair of channels (in parellel, how the dash and door speakers are wired together on the front 2 channels from the factory in our cars), you get a single pair of 2-Ohm loads. This would make your amp produce TWICE the power on the front channels. That's ohm's law, baby. Plus, the speakers don't have to 'share' or 'split' that power, they both see the full wattage.

The amp in your head-unit might take this abuse, and it might not. I bet those 4-inchers won't. When you cut the impedence load in half, the wattage produced by the amp will double.

Here's what you can do without having to buy/sell/trade anything. I'd think this to be your best bet. Don't cut the harness anywhere. Run the 4" pair on the front channels of the head unit, using the stock harness. Run the 6x9s, with the crossovers mounted behind the speakers, on the rear channels of the head unit, using the factory wires. Run the door speakers off the amp, full range, no cross-over action. Run new speaker wires from the amp into the door for the door speakers, and RCA cables from the deck to the amp. It's really easy to slide wires through the door tubes when you spray the wires with silicone spray first. This would be the most direct, simple, and traditional way to make a decent set-up out of what you've got. It's just too bad your highest-quality speakers are your rears, and not the doors. Do you sit and listen to your stereo at home with your speakers pointed at your back? Set-it-up like this, and then later down the line, when you got spare cash, invest in a nice top-quality pair of 6 1/2s for your doors. Then just turn-up the gain on the amp.

This, IMHO, is the best compromise set-up possible for the stuff you have on-hand. If you amped the 6x9s in the back, it will always sound like crap, and you will blow-up your front speakers trying to balance the sound. Plus, the 6x9s probably aren't any/much more sensitive than those 5 1/4 inchers in the doors. And no harness-cutting, taboot. Just turn down the gain on the amp to match the door-speakers power-handling ability. A speaker can usually take more than it's rated wattage if the wattage is clean. Running a 75wx2 amp at half-gain would give you very clean poweer, indeed. You were fuzzy on the amp's specs. Am I assuming correctly that "150RMS" means 75W x 2?

 

[forcefed86]

No offense at all, I appreciate the hell out of you helping me get a grasp on this, I'm lost as you can tell.

AMP was purchased to supply the 150rms(400 max) 6x9's which will pretty much be bass speakers. With most of the clarity coming from the mid and front speakers. (or so I had thought!)

This is the amp specs.

# SPECIFICATIONS

* Amplifier Class : Class A/B
* Number of Channels : 2-Channel
* Maximum Power : 800 Watts
* RMS Power Output @ 4 Ohms : 150 Watts x 2-Channel
* MAX Power Output @ 2 Ohms : 400 Watts x 2-Channel
* Bridged Power : 800 Watts x 1-Channel
* THD : 0.01%
* Signal-to-Noise Ratio (dB) : 105dB
* Frequency Response (Hz) : 9Hz~50kHz
* Built-in Crossover : Yes
* High-Pass Crossover Frequency : 50Hz~500Hz
* Low-Pass Crossover Frequency : 40Hz~150Hz
* Bass Boost : 0dB~18dB

These are my door speaker specs. The amp is overkill for them IMO.

5.25" r152 rockford fosgates.

Configuration 2-Way Full-Range
Midrange Diameter 5.25"
Midrange Depth 1.91"
Tweeter Diameter 0.5"
Frequency Response 53Hz - 22kHz
Power Handling 35 Watts RMS, 70 Watts Max
Crossover Tweeter High-Pass (HP): 6dB
Sensitivity 87dB @ 1 watt/1 meter

6x9 specs.

# Sensitivity: 90 dB
# RMS Power Range : 150 Watts
# Peak Power Handling: 300 Watts
# Impedance: 3 Ohm
# Frequency response: 45-22000 Hz
# Diameter: 6x9 Inch
# Design: 2 Way
# Tweeter Composition: Silk
# Black Zirconium Coated Cone
# Silk Dome Tweeter Surround
# FerroFluid Cooled Tweeter
# Poly-Switch Transducer Protection
# 3-Ohm System Impedance
# Gold-Plated Terminal Connectors
# External 2-Way Passive Crossover Included

That being said I want the rear speakers to have the amp. I noticed the 6x9's are 3ohm and not 4? Will this harm anything?

I had this same deck with the 5.25 rockfords in the door and 6.5 rockfords in the back. Head unit only powering them and it sounded great.

Currently I have some sort of pioneer 6x9's in the back, and the rockfords door speakers, no dash speakers. It sounds horrible. I see no factory amps under the seats. Did they put these anywhere else?

Honestly I only paid $20 for the Boss 25w 4" speakers. If anything I can just leave those out of the mix. Or install some 800hrtz bass blocker inline? Or possibly run some 8-12ohm 4" speakers up front? Or even run the front channel in series?


Thanks for your help!

 

[brownfinger]

Don't run anything in series, and don't use bass-blockers. Bass-blockers actually ruin speakers, it's hard to explain. Yeah, your amp soundslike over-kill, but I'd still run it to the door speakers. You can always just swap those speakers out when you can afford some good ones.

Your amp seems like it's more of a sub amp, but you can still use it. If you run it to the doors, set it's high-pass crossover at 50-60 Hz, it will squeeze more life/less distortion out of your 5.25" speakers.

The 3-ohm 6x9s shouldn't cause any trouble. But still, I stand by my original recomendation: Amp the doors, run the other 4 off the head unit. Unless you want to try to trade your amp for a 50w x4.

Do you still have the 6.5" RF speakers? You can get door mounting brackets from a 93-94 that are designed for 6.5s.

BTW: Sensitivity ratings are really only usefull for comparing speakers from the same manufacturer. An Alpine 93db/watt may be less sensitive than a Pioneer 91 db/watt. The ratings aren't standardized.

Also, no factory amps on a 1G. Don't let those 2G punks confuse you!

 

[forcefed86]

Thanks, I'll see what I can do.

I found out 1g's from the factory use 8ohm speakers for the door and dash. 4 Ohm for the rears. This is straight from a friend at Mitsu dealership. So in order to properly set my system up, I'd need to buy 8ohm speakers.

I may try and sell the rockfords in the doors and my dash speakers and just go this route. Then everything will be setup OEM style. Until then I'll just run it the way it is.

I was playing with my current setup last night a bit. And the wanker before me had one of the leads on the rear speakers hooked up backwards canceling each other out. I fixed this and it does sound better.

Thanks for the help all, I actually learned something.



On a side not, guy at radio shack told me this....

Apparently if I have all 4 ohm speakers and I'd like the door and dash speakers on the FWD channel i'd need 8ohm speakers.

Apparently I can make the 4ohm speakers 8ohm with a simple 2 dollar 4ohm 50watt resistor. On each of the speakers + wires.

This seems reasonable. I could also buy 2 larger resistors for the front speakers 12ohm looks to be the next readily available and leave the doors at 4ohm?

 

[GooeyGus]

I found out 1g's from the factory use 8ohm speakers for the door and dash. 4 Ohm for the rears. This is straight from a friend at Mitsu dealership. So in order to properly set my system up, I'd need to buy 8ohm speakers.

I bet the reason they use the 8ohm's in the dash and doors is because the head unit was designed to run at 4ohm per channel. They tied two 8ohm speakers into one channel, which made 4ohms, which let the factory head unit/amp be happy. The rears each had their own channel, which is why they are 4ohm speakers.

In order to figure out what resistance you need, you have to look at the amp you're using. Factory speaker specs don't matter at this point because you aren't using any of the factory equipment anymore.

 

[forcefed86]

I bet the reason they use the 8ohm's in the dash and doors is because the head unit was designed to run at 4ohm per channel. They tied two 8ohm speakers into one channel, which made 4ohms, which let the factory head unit/amp be happy. The rears each had their own channel, which is why they are 4ohm speakers.

In order to figure out what resistance you need, you have to look at the amp you're using. Factory speaker specs don't matter at this point because you aren't using any of the factory equipment anymore.

Isn't that what I just said?

Either way, yes your are exactly right. I also have a 4ohm factory receiver and 6 4ohm speakers. (2 going to FWD channel)

To me this means I could run a 12 ohm dash speaker and leave the door speaker at 4 ohms. This would only limit the power to the smallest speaker and still keep the amp "happy".

This will cut the amount of power to the dash speakers a ton, but they are tiny and low wattage anyway. Not the best clarity setup, but it should stop any damage from occurring to the amp. And should sound better than removing the dash speakers all together?

At least that's the idea. I could e horribly wrong. That was my question.

 

[brownfinger]

Apparently if I have all 4 ohm speakers and I'd like the door and dash speakers on the FWD channel i'd need 8ohm speakers.

Apparently I can make the 4ohm speakers 8ohm with a simple 2 dollar 4ohm 50watt resistor. On each of the speakers + wires.

This seems reasonable. I could also buy 2 larger resistors for the front speakers 12ohm looks to be the next readily available and leave the doors at 4ohm?

That's what I was trying to tell you!
Use the resistors to make them 8-ohms, and run them like factory, then you can use your amp for a nice 12" sub.

BTW, cool trick about the resistors. I didn't know that, and it sounds useful.

 

[brownfinger]

I didn't smoke enough crack for breakfast: The factory speaker set-up for the 93-94 cars is 12-ohm dash, 6-ohm door. I looked-up the equation finally, and I've been digging around the junk-yard and my own cars. I'm currently re-speakering my 92. I'm wiring in resisters on the door speakers to make them 6-ohm, and I'll be raping the 12-ohm dash speakers from my 94 ( it will be recieving the entire set-up now-dead 93). I'll let you know how it works-out.