Abnormal lag on 16g

[spydermanX98X]

hey guys, I recently pulled my car out of a terrible ordeal with a shop (Genesis Racing Development beware) and got the dyno chart and took her out on the road. They claim boost to be 20psi at redline, makes 280whp supposedly. Here's the mods

Evo3 16g-Brand new, ported, not clipped stock wastegate
Punishment racing 2g FMIC
1g Bov
BC 272's straight up
3inch exhaust with cat, punishment racing 3 inch downpipe
Extreme Psi generic intake/kn filter
Ngk plugs
DSM Link, Eprom Ecu
Cometic Headgasket
I do not currently have a wideband
Evo 560's
Walbro 190

Car does not make full boost until 5k rpms and peak at 6750
I will probably have a dyno chart to post tomorrow and have absolutely no experience with link.

I would like opinions on what could be causing me to lag all the way till 5k considering people make boost at 3k all the time.

 

[RadDsm]

Checking for boost leaks and pre turbo exhaust leaks is always a good place to start.

 

[viperlp01]

Sounds like a wastegate problem.. I would try pushing the wastegate arm back into the hotside. maybe it is not covering the hole all the way and cause slow spool. That shop sounds like they suck ..

I would still check for boost leaks and pre turbo exhaust leaks but I would assume a 5k full boost is caused by a wastegate.

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Maybe a cracked exhaust housing?

 

[toofast82]

Check for all of the above mentioned:
Boost/vacuum leaks
Malfunctioning wastegate
Pre-turbo exhaust leaks

 

[spydermanX98X]

Alright thanks, Wastegate or boost controller would've been my initial thought too but I tired a friends MBC and same result, and since the turbo is brand spankin' new it seems unlikely for the wastegate. I should be getting a 2g mani and 02 to port and swap over soon but I think I'll run a boost leak test sometime this week.

 

[LandoAWD]

Is the wastegate rod adjustable or fixed?

 

[knochgoon24]

Also check for shaft play on the turbo.

 

[Hubbard 0]

There aren't really too many good stories about GRD. I know most of the guys there and I think they're only going downhill after Chris left.

If you want a boosted 350Z I'd go there, but that's about it.

 

[spydermanX98X]

just to give you an idea- chris was the one who took the car in. That gives you an idea of how long it was stuck in that shithole. I needed a simple fuel system install and AMS had a huge wait, biggest mistake of my life. Dad didn't want me to work with gas, should've just done it myself or waited for AMS.

In other news... just looked under my hood and my boost gauge line has been punctured/tampered with and my boost controller is gone? Got some work to do tomorrow and thursday.

 

[ishnish]

Guys, I'm bringing this back up from the dead so I don't have to start another thread the same topic. First, anyone can view my supporting mods on my profile.

I just did a pull not 5 minutes ago and noticed really bad lag on my car running an evo 3 16g. I have no boost controller so it's whatever the stock boost should be. I probably hit like 7 psi by 3600rpm or so, and by 6000+ rpm, I'm at 11 psi. I'm assuming 11 psi is full boost for my turbo without any mods(stock)?

Why is it so so laggy?

I've ported the intlet of the turbine housing as well. However, I have not done the flapper mod.

Could it be that, realistically, my full boost is actually 7 psi and I creep to 11?? I do not go past 11psi though.

Also, I've done multiple boost leak tests and don't have a single boost leak anymore. My biggest leaks were the injectors but I've replaced the seals with brand new injector seals. No leaks anywhere and that includes boost/vacuum/pre-exhaust leaks. I'm stumped, what could it be??

 

[Jacolu3]

I had a similar issue and it turned out the wastegate was sticking open causing a ton of lag. It might be getting caught on the o2 housing or could even be warped or cracked.

 

[ishnish]

First of all, thank you for replying! I am highly considering that it is the wastegate issue. Mainly because of the flapper mod I did not do. Anyway I can bypass that and do something else that can fix it? I am going to install my fuel pump soon which is the last of my supporting mods for upping the boost.

I'm not sure if that will fix the situation or not. Would getting a new actuator with a higher pressure spring do anything?

 

[Jacolu3]

If the flapper is getting caught on something or is cracked it won't matter what spring you run. You really just need to take off the exhaust housing and see if you can manually open and close the flapper without any binding.

First of all, thank you for replying! I am highly considering that it is the wastegate issue. Mainly because of the flapper mod I did not do. Anyway I can bypass that and do something else that can fix it? I am going to install my fuel pump soon which is the last of my supporting mods for upping the boost.

I'm not sure if that will fix the situation or not. Would getting a new actuator with a higher pressure spring do anything?

 

[Vegas Smith]

Could be something like a crack in the exhaust housing, an unported wastegate hole or this could be totally natural for that turbo. 7 psi is a very small amount of boost to run if you have a good high-flowing setup like yours with exhaust and other mods. You could also try shimming the wasgate (adding washers to the two wastegate bolts).

 

[ishnish]

If the flapper is getting caught on something or is cracked it won't matter what spring you run. You really just need to take off the exhaust housing and see if you can manually open and close the flapper without any binding.

I can manually open the flapper and close it no problem. I had the housing out and remember inspecting the flapper.

Could be something like a crack in the exhaust housing, an unported wastegate hole or this could be totally natural for that turbo. 7 psi is a very small amount of boost to run if you have a good high-flowing setup like yours with exhaust and other mods. You could also try shimming the wasgate (adding washers to the two wastegate bolts).

I'm hoping you are correct and that it is totally natural. I guess, as of right now, the best thing to do is to install the rest of my supporting mods and then up the boost to see if that fixes the issue. I highly doubt it's any cranked housing as I've had it out to port and have driven the car maybe a little over 100 miles since.

 

[Vegas Smith]

I can tell that on a lot of built e16g cars people have issues running less than 18-20lbs of boost much less 7lbs. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[ishnish]

Well that alleviated some stress. Thanks Vegas I appreciate it.

 

[Red 4G63]

What boost controller do you have? I’m running a Hallman Pro set to 14psi until I hit 5100rpms and then it creeps to 25psi till redline (fun but scary). 16Gs are notorious for creeping. As long as you’ve removed the Boost Control Selenoid from the mix you should be able to control the boost to whatever psi you’re looking to achieve through the natural power band. I would run a few logs through ecmlink and make sure your logging all of the necessary sensors (see ECMTuning.com tutorials for more info on base tuning). Once you get some logs and check your STFT & LTFT and MAFraw, you should be able to see how well everything is working together. Perhaps you’re a bit light on your AFR’s and that’s what’s not allowing your turbo to spool well at lower Rpms. Hope that helps!

 

[ishnish]

What boost controller do you have? I’m running a Hallman Pro set to 14psi until I hit 5100rpms and then it creeps to 25psi till redline (fun but scary). 16Gs are notorious for creeping. As long as you’ve removed the Boost Control Selenoid from the mix you should be able to control the boost to whatever psi you’re looking to achieve through the natural power band. I would run a few logs through ecmlink and make sure your logging all of the necessary sensors (see ECMTuning.com tutorials for more info on base tuning). Once you get some logs and check your STFT & LTFT and MAFraw, you should be able to see how well everything is working together. Perhaps you’re a bit light on your AFR’s and that’s what’s not allowing your turbo to spool well at lower Rpms. Hope that helps!

I also have a Hallman Pro, I just haven't installed it yet. Boost control solenoid is removed. I'll have to do a few logs, you're correct. I am currently running the ecmlink evo timing and fuel maps since these stock 2g maps are pig rich. So, I assume my AFRs should be okay.

 

[Red 4G63]

Definitely get that Hallman installed! It really is worth the money. I also run the Evo maps. They seem to work well. I’ve also noticed a lot of difference between the stock 2G MAF and the GM 3”. The GM MAF seems to be more picky but you can dial it in better (so they say).

 

[ishnish]

I am still running the 2g maf. Will be doing so for a while. But I will get that boost controller installed hopefully very soon!

 

[chrysler kid]

To follow up the stock 16g actuator will only do 7psi

 

[ishnish]

To follow up the stock 16g actuator will only do 7psi

Okay, thank you for this info!!

This means that I am probably creeping to 11 psi

 

[chrysler kid]

Okay, thank you for this info!!

This means that I am probably creeping to 11 psi

Yeah. My 14b and 16g both started at 7psi just hooked to the actuator with no boost controller.

I have varying theories about heat transfer, but basically with stock downpipe with all heat shielding intact you should not have boost creep. My prevailing thought is the piping should remain the same temperature or hotter than the gasses, so that the exhaust gasses do not try to rise back up into the turbine housing, and are expelled through the tail pipe