4g63t rebuild starting

[holo82]

So I've done some searching to the best of my ability please don't flame me....

My brother just rebuilt his 97 eclipse 4g63t and after the engine was dropped in, he's unable to keep it running. I've yet to make the commute to his house a few hours away, but rather wanted some advice before I headed up there this weekend.

It seems the timing should be correct as he's done several TB's before, but what puzzles me, it the fact that it will run and ALMOST idle with the spark plug pulled from cylinder #1. He said as soon as he slaps the plug (or just the plug wire) back on cyl 1 it will not idle and only sputters. Any advice?

Again sorry if it's been asked before. I cannot seem to search for "cylinder one" or such terms and come up with results.

-Matt

 

[holo82]

Ok so I called him and was walking through the CAS and various other "double checks" and beneath the air-box was some type of relay that was rattling.. aka: pieces inside were severed. I'm not sure exactly what this relay was for and I cannot find it in the Haynes, but my bro said everything electrical on the car works so, possible relay for a sensor ? MAF, etc? Really unsure with this car...

*********UPDATE************

Found the relay was related to the cruise control..... back to first post.

 

[1badtsiawd]

are the plug wires in the right sequence coming off the coil pack? that is the first thing that came to my mind.

 

[holo82]

As far as I know the wire sequence is correct, unless he's done some fiddling around with them. I made the trip today and checked it myself. I found a few vacuum lines around the EGR that were disconnected, so I reconnected them, and checked all air intake systems for unmetered air leaks. Maybe I should describe what I'm seeing myself as I personally witnessed these problems now...

ECU looks and smells fine no leakage. All plugs fire strong blue spark. Couldn't check compression myself as I have no testing equipment with me on this trip. Fuel is there and seems abundant, as I'll describe.

When I turned the key the car starts to fire, but seems like a fuel overload. After a bit of cranking I was able to get the car to run and idle on what seemed like one freaking cylinder. Just a chug-chug-chug pressing and releasing the gas pedal seemed to have minimal increase or decrease on the idle which seemed a near impossible 200rpms or so.

He proceeded to pull the wire off of cylinder 1 and show me the difference and the car would start, idle around 200 or a bit higher rpms but you could press the gas pedal and increase it to around 800-900 (floored). Obviously there's something wrong and can't place my finger on it. I checked the timing marks and unless the tensioner being just the slightest loose the marks on the cams being horizontal with the head line up with 0 tdc crank position. blah.... I don't know what else to say or check.

During all of this though, we had intermittent backfires before the car would sputter and die... not every time but during those times the gas was very noticeable and lead me to double think the timing... I just don't understand though...

 

[1badtsiawd]

does he have a afc or any kind of fuel management system?

 

[saechao04]

I would re re check the firing order, sounds like mine when I had the firing order wrong, I was so sure I had it right it was the last thing I checked.

 

[DSMopar]

Firing order....

 

[holo82]

does he have a afc or any kind of fuel management system?

All stock... everything that I can think of is stock. I didn't bother to check the Power Transistor pack or the coils, but I recall 4..1..2..3 being the firing order from left to right... Is it possible the transistor or coil could be wired incorrectly? I'm quite a few miles from his place, but next time I head up I'll fiddle with it. BISS should be completely screwed down too correct?

 

[DSMopar]

BISS should be completely screwed down too correct?

No...

 

[holo82]

No...

It would help if you elaborate a bit more.

 

[1badtsiawd]

I recall 4..1..2..3 being the firing order from left to right.

yes that is the right order. and it is 4,3,2,1 on the head starting from the passenger side and going right to the driver's side.

 

[holo82]

I read on adjusting the 2g BISS... It was running before the rebuild and I only popped the cap off of it and it was screwed all the way in. I don't feel that it should completely inhibit the car from running.

Thanks for the reply on the firing order. Unless the coil or power trans can be wired differently (need to inspect it or get feedback from someone on that) it's wired correctly.

I basically grabbing at straws... anything anyone has to say feel free... Two heads are better than one.

How about the CAS? We've tried both ways it sets in with no difference. I believe I'm going to spend a day and start testing everything with my voltmeter. Starting with the power trans, and coils, moving down to the injectors. I'm so damn lost here...

Thanks everyone for their input.. I'll be sure and update if we get this fixed!!

 

[holo82]

*****UPDATE*****

So after a long day at my brothers we jerked the timing cover off and to my surprise the timing was a little different that I'm used to. The cams lined up but the crank was a bit off (BTDC) the timing mark. I advanced it one tooth and it was past the timing mark so it seemed the cams weren't setting even with the head as they previously thought, so I proceeded to completely redo the timing and with one swift turn of the key, BAM the car was running and idling!!!

So we smacked everything back on the car filled it back up with coolant and what do you know it started perfectly again. It was idling at around 1050 RPMs cold, and revving to around 3000 the engine sounded perfect (minus the fact it's got a new exhaust with no cat, which someone cut off so there's a gap).

Here's where more problems arise...

The car didn't sputter, it just straight dropped rpms after about 45 seconds, and died cold. Attempts at restarting it were odd to say the least, once it would crank 1/2 turn and fire right up and starting idling for 10-15 seconds, the next it wouldn't even fire.

COIL or P. Transistor pack?

Any clues this go-round?

 

[holo82]

All I can do is sit back and laugh. Another week goes by and still can't get her running. I've made a checklist of things to check and test coming up, feel free to add things on here if you wish.

Check CPS (crank pos. sensor)
Check CAS
Swap Coils
Replace all vacuum lines with high temp fashion color silicon lines
<s>ASD relay check</s> MPI ASD are one and good
FPR check (getting pleny of fuel but check anyway)
MPI

I have found that the CPS/CAS/ASD relay are all connected.. is this true?
If either the cam sensor or crank sensor have absent signals, the asd relay kicks in?
This would explain the sudden dying of the car after it's running perfect for a few seconds...

 

[holo82]

I suppose I'll keep searching other sites and answering my own questions. I assume that a 4g63t engine has no ASD unless it's integrated with the MPI. I cannot find it. I keep finding diagrams for it in the n/a engines.

For every one post I read, I'm finding contradictions in another. This is so damn frustrating I'm going to pull my friggin' hair out.

 

[holo82]

So the MPI seems to be working properly. Moving on...

 

[Never Satisfied]

Can't help but think it is an ecu related problem. Sounds like you are losing fuel or spark.

Double check all of the injector plugs.
Try cleaning the injectors.
Check the fuel filter.

Check your spark plug wires, make sure they aren't shorting out.
Check the coil pack and such.

MAF sensor plugged in tight?

Any thoughts on the O2 sensor or wires for it? Same with the knock sensor.

Back your BISS out a bit, worst that will happen is a high idle.

Try grounding the little 1 wire plug near the battery. You know, the one that you ground when you are setting ignition timing.

Most of this you have probably already done, but do it again just to be sure. We all miss small things from time to time.

That is all that I can think of right now, but go through all of that and I bet you will have good results. Don't forget to double check the timing belt.

 

[96eclipzGsT]

Lets see you got it to run perfect after moving the timing belt. Then it went to not cranking and running like shit. How did you set the tensioner when putting the timing belt back on? Has the belt slipped any?