420a HP and HP potential.

Posted by eldiabloz13, Apr 26, 2006
420A Bolt-on Tech - Intake, exhaust, ignition, fuel system, cooling, etc - specific to 2G N/T DSMs. New Members must limit their 420A tech posts to this forum.

  1. eldiabloz13

    eldiabloz13 Proven Member

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    -What is the HP of a 420a.
    -Now if you were to take a stock Gs-t turbo kit and put it on it at 8 psi(knowing your engine can handle 8 off the start) what would be the HP then.
    -Now also if you do the internals on the 420a and use the same stock kit.
    -What could be the highest psi you can reach now.
    -Also the highest HP you could get from that stock kit.

    There should be 5 numbers at the end if your going to answer the whole question. If you only know one part of each then thats fine.Thanks a bunch guys:D
    #1
  2. VelocitàPaola

    VelocitàPaola DSM N/T Moderator

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    Here's my multi-part answer to your multi-part question...

    140 hp stock.

    It depends on a few things, but I'd say around 225-250 hp.

    What? Do you mean if you were to "do the internals" with the same amount of boost? If you use the same compression ratio, it'll be the same; however, most people rebuild with lower compression for turbo cars, so at the same psi, you'll actually have a little less power.

    With forged internals, the sky's the limit... 25+ psi, up to about 500 hp (I believe the crank will start to go at that point, unless you upgraded it already). The real question at this point, isn't whether or not the internals can handle it, but if your fuel system and turbo can support the boost.

    The "stock kit" off of a turbo car will NOT fit our cars. Besides the turbo itself and the intercooler, you need several custom fabricated parts to make the turbo system from a GS-T fit on a GS or RS. If you were to use a standard T-25 (1995-1999 4G63 cars) you could probably boost up to about 16 psi (~250 hp). If you go for the 14B (1989-1994 M/T cars), you could boost up to about 18-20 psi (~350-400).

    Those figures are a little optimistic - you would need to tune everything really well to achieve those numbers.
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  3. eldiabloz13

    eldiabloz13 Proven Member

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    Good point on the internal question. It was a simple over look hahaha sorry. Now those fabricated parts your talking about. I have a secret but you cant tell anyone ;) (a t-25 is going to fit on my gs) OMG . Think of it...if i were to use the t3 like everyone i still need a manifold and im not paying to buy a t3 off line. So either way im making a manifold mine as well be something no one has done before. The t-25 is just going to have to come out a little farther to pass the ignition. So i will remove a fan to do so. Everything else is normal. Regular dp, 190 fuel pump,450cc injectors,tuned,oil lines ran the same way. Ohh as for the intercool. Yeh it bolted right up to my car no problem. Then again i had metal plates on my chasy no one else had there before. So im sure i have a mutated car :p .
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  4. VelocitàPaola

    VelocitàPaola DSM N/T Moderator

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    Whoa... I think you're missing the reasons why most people put T3's on their car:

    1.)You can find T3's anywhere.
    2.)Many manifold/downpipe manufacturers use T3 style flanges.
    3.)T3's are pretty good turbos, with a quick spool up time, and quite a bit of potential.

    Almost no one uses T-25's because they're so small, they really have no potential. If you ever plan on doing all of those things you talked about up above, you'll be replacing that T-25 in no time. If you want a turbo that came off of an Eclipse stock, I'd opt for the 14B. The 16G is my turbo of choice (obviously; look at my profile), but in any case, I would not advise getting the T-25.

    Also, I'm a little confused about what you mean when you say "everything else is normal... [including] the dp." If you have a turbo, neither the stock downpipe or the GS-T downpipe will fit.

    Finally, I know that little list you gave wasn't comprehensive, but you forgot to mention some pretty important parts (i.e. FMU, FCD...). I suggest you do some more research so no serious damage occurs to your car.

    Here's something to keep you busy, if you haven't already read it:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181134&

    I also have a new tech article about boosting a 420A in the works - but it won't be out for a few days.
    #4
  5. Trucloner11

    Trucloner11 Proven Member

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    When i got my gs i thought i could take the turbo off a gst and install it on mine too....imagine my heartbreak
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  6. VelocitàPaola

    VelocitàPaola DSM N/T Moderator

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    Yep... we came out on the wrong side of a joint-venture cost reduction technique. But hey, it's not all bad: the 420A is really a great engine. Once you rebuild it with forged internals, you can give any competition a run for it's money.
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  7. Trucloner11

    Trucloner11 Proven Member

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    Yea i did get the short end of the stick...and on my 17 year old budget internals are far out of my league...i need to sell my ride and rind a nice gst/gsx
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  8. VelocitàPaola

    VelocitàPaola DSM N/T Moderator

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    Sell out. :p

    I got my car when I was 18, and look at me now! :)
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  9. Trucloner11

    Trucloner11 Proven Member

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    Just seems to be the easier way out...god knows i couldnt deal with a blown engine from to much psi...plus Id take a ass beatin from my old man!
    #9
  10. JOEY A

    JOEY A Proven Member

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    It seems like a SRT4 turbo setup can bolt onto the 420A, Also you could swap in a evo motor since you motor is switched like a evo and is on the other side it will bolt up.........


    If you can swap in a SRt4 motor in a older neon im sure you could also do it with your car. My friend had a SRT complete motor and we look at a NA and it seemed to be like it would bolt up easy...


    Im just helping with ideas
    #10
  11. VelocitàPaola

    VelocitàPaola DSM N/T Moderator

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    It's not all that easy. The SRT-4 head has a completely different bolt pattern, so the manifold won't bolt up to the 2G N/T head at all.

    While an SRT-4 motor CAN be swapped into a 2G N/T, it won't be any easier than swapping in a 2.4L 420A from a Sebring; it'll still require some hefty custom fabrication (i.e. oil pan, mounts, accessory brackets, etc.).

    The Evo motor won't work at all. Evo's have 4G63 motors (like turbo 1989-1999 Turbo DSMs). While their orientation is more similar to that of a 2G N/T (420A motor), the fact that the two cars have two completely different motors prevents the swap from every being a possibility.
    #11
  12. JOEY A

    JOEY A Proven Member

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  13. eldiabloz13

    eldiabloz13 Proven Member

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    Dont get me wrong i know what i need to know to carry on with this plan. A t-25 is a bad turbo but for 100 bucks it will boost just as well as the rest. A t3 is 300 bucks. Would you like to give me 200 to buy one? I do not F with eBay i hate that damn site the people on it. Its a site made for crooks,cheats,and scammers. Of course the 70 year old looking to sell some antiques but still. Now what i was say is that i will take a regular manifold make it to it fits the t25 and then cut the dp to fit to the lengh of the turbo. If i really wished i could get a gst one and use that. My brother says anything can be fabricated to anything. It only cant be done if YOU do not know how. Thats why it should be left to those who know. Manifold,dp,ic piping are all going to be custom work. My brother says if i wanted also. I could take a gst manifold cut off the flange weld the 420a one on and use that and buy a gst dp and be done with it. He dosent want problems with this so he is going to cut my dp weld a t25 flange on ther and use a custom manifold for the rest. FMU i will get eventually and the fcd i cant seem to find anymore. fmu will be done with the install of the 190walbro. Since they both deal with gas lines. Srt-4 isnt a 420 is it? I thought they were a 2.4 of a different engine. As for the internals.......im probly not going to get anymore seeing that i found a awd tsi for 1500 and thats 400 more then what it would cost for the internals anyways. Never mind install time. So im still going for a gs with a gst turbo set up pretty much. Same turbo same intercool same injector,everything is needed to make the car run so i have to add it.
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  14. VelocitàPaola

    VelocitàPaola DSM N/T Moderator

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    No... but I'd almost be willing to give you an extra $50 or so for a decent turbo:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=44528&cat=7

    Um... ok. WTF

    Ok ok... there's no problem there; many parts HAVE to be custom fabricated for a 420A turbo kit. I never said you couldn't do it: in fact, that's really the only way to go turbo with a 420A.

    Not quite, the turbo won't sit in the same orientation as it would on the GS-T, so you would still need to make a custom downpipe.

    I've made a few in my day... let me know if you'll need one.

    Yeah, they have the A853 engine.
    #14
  15. eldiabloz13

    eldiabloz13 Proven Member

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    Well well well.......i found a TSI for sale today that was crashed but minorly. Simple repairs can be made. Since it was crashed he is selling it for 1500. I can sell my N/t up here for around 3. So come to find out i might not even need any of this. Seeing though im broke i doubt it will happen. I can dream ya know :( . Now the fcd what is it. I know it stands for fuel cut defender but where is it placed. What does it look like and how much will it cost me.
    #15
  16. VelocitàPaola

    VelocitàPaola DSM N/T Moderator

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    The FCD is a piece of electronics that limits the voltage output of your stock MAP sensor. By keeping the voltage to about 4.7V (maximum), you're ECU won't know you're boosting, and won't throw you into limp mode. To install it, you'll need to tap into a +12V source, the +5V MAP sensor wire, a ground, and you'll need to splice the whole unit into the MAP output.

    Take a look here for where you can find FCD's: http://www.symtechlabs.com/catalog/fuel-cut-defender-fcd-p-33.html
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2010
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  17. Trucloner11

    Trucloner11 Proven Member

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    all that stuff is to much to think about...weld a flange? Cmon your 16 im 17... not exactly master welders...its alright to dream but you gotta know your limits, when its all said and done it'll be a much bigger ghetto rigged job than you had in mind
    #17
  18. VelocitàPaola

    VelocitàPaola DSM N/T Moderator

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    Who are you talking to, and what's your point? I was 18 when I did most of my turbo project. It takes patience to undertake a project like this, but it can be done with professional quality results. You need to research and look for the best possible installation solutions, rather than taking money-saving or quality-compromising short cuts.
    #18
    SkyLineGtR-R34 likes this.
  19. SkyLineGtR-R34

    SkyLineGtR-R34 Proven Member

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    I was year older than you when I turbocharged a first civic hatchback :)
    I wasn't an expert in tunning out stuff, so the engine didn't last for long, but hey at least I learned something.

    I think VelocitaPaola is one of those people who'll try to give you the best advice here on the tuners without flamming you.
    #19
  20. eldiabloz13

    eldiabloz13 Proven Member

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    Now if you would have read most of the post I'm sure you would have saw I said my BROTHER. Now sure im 16 going on 17 next month but it dosent mean my brother is a year older. Now I can see where your coming from, but this job isnt going to be done by myself I will have me a friend and a mechanic shop and depending on what time of day I work on it I could possibly have 4 professional mechaincs. So its not a small crew and hey when your brother marrying the daughter of the best mechainc for foriegn import cars its a good thing. People rather take there volvo's, porches,laborguini(how ever you spell the names)corvettes,etc....to him then actuall dealers cause they know he will do a better job. Now can you weld under water?.......if so then any job you should be doing weither it takes 5 min or 20 min it going to be damn good. It has to be a nice weld and water tight. So if anything were to be bad on my car it would be the actual engine.
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  21. Trucloner11

    Trucloner11 Proven Member

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    Lol now what does a mechanic need to weld under water for?
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  22. eldiabloz13

    eldiabloz13 Proven Member

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    No my brother is a under water welder and the mechanics are just friends and soon to be realitives.
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  23. SkyLineGtR-R34

    SkyLineGtR-R34 Proven Member

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    Meh, I'm lost on this topic. It went from 420a HP rating to underwater welding. I hope you don't plan to put your engine under water and then do some welding. ROFL
    #23
  24. eldiabloz13

    eldiabloz13 Proven Member

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    :thumb: hahaha yeh good point ill delete this tomorrow.
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  25. Siral3x

    Siral3x Proven Member

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    Trucloner11 the 420A is not really worth the money because most upgrades/turbo kits are far beyound a 17 year old budget. I would sell the car and look out for a low millage GST/GSx if you really want the "PHsss" sound.
    I'm 19..got my first DSM last year and I got ripped of big time....barely now I got my 2G ready for heavy duty moodds. As a noob it will cost you $1000+ in labor only just to install the kit....i'm not even talking abt engine prep, and on stock internals you can't run more then 7PSI...I think 8 is too much. Also you need to upgrade the fuel system...other couple $100s..and soo on. You don't want to do it! :) + you have to switch to the expensive 91+ octane gas.
    I would either keep the car and take really good care of the engine..so you can go thru HS with it , or sell it! save your money!,do you're homework and read read read DMS articles and latter on buy a GST/GSX!
    I wish I had a GS daily driver with this gas prices ;) beucase with a Turbo you'll always want to mash it down :D
    #25

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