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3G brake master in a 2G

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Hey, ceedawg. Was one of the initial symptoms having excessive brake pedal travel?
It seems like I have a lot more pedal travel compared to my other cars. Like I really have to push on the pedal to slow down fast. Can't really get them to lock up. I would think the 2 piston calipers with hawk pads should grab pretty good. I've replace all the brake hoses, MC, and bled the system. It's better, but still feels "weak."
 
Hey, ceedawg. Was one of the initial symptoms having excessive brake pedal travel?
It seems like I have a lot more pedal travel compared to my other cars. Like I really have to push on the pedal to slow down fast. Can't really get them to lock up.
No ,my brake pedal always felt abnormally and extremely hard. The same way it would feel if you step on the brake pedal with the car not running. If I pushed down too hard while driving or make a panic stop the brakes would lock up and the car would almost skid out of control.
With the new brake booster not the case brakes feel pretty normal.
 
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So I'm a bit lost here. The first picture in this topic shows that the 3G cylinder has one line going from the top and one from the side. I've looked at other 3G cylinders and they are all like that. Yet, when I look at my own OEM cylinder on a 2G Talon AWD (with ABS), both lines go from the top as seen in this pic with yellow lines:

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So how exactly would that setup work? Even if you could bend that first line (closest to firewall) somehow, it would kink the line too much and possibly ruin it. Only way I see it is with custom flexible lines. Unless some DSMs have these brake lines configured differently?
 
3gs come with either drums or discs on the back, and w/ or w/o ABS. Has anyone worked out of there are significant differences between 3g MCs or are they all the same? Part number MR475973 seems to be w/o abs and MR475432 seems to be w/abs. There are probably others...
 
I know this thread has been going for a while but I was hoping to get some help from you guys. I did the swap to put a 3g MC & BB into my 2g. I removed the lines and had them flared correctly.
Everything works great! However, I was hoping someone could tell me where to get the correct pigtail (sensor wiring). Yes...get it from a junkyard. Well, 3g DSMs are few and far between around here. Anyone know of a place I can order the 3g MC pigtail?
 
I know this thread has been going for a while but I was hoping to get some help from you guys. I did the swap to put a 3g MC & BB into my 2g. I removed the lines and had them flared correctly.
Everything works great! However, I was hoping someone could tell me where to get the correct pigtail (sensor wiring). Yes...get it from a junkyard. Well, 3g DSMs are few and far between around here. Anyone know of a place I can order the 3g MC pigtail?
you mean the brake fluid level sensor connector? http://connectors.sheridanengineering.com/DSD2F.htm
 
When I did the 3g MC swap onto my 1g, I'm pretty sure that the fluid level sensor connector from my 1g plugged right into the 3g MC. According to that link that mitsubishikid posted above, it looks like both the 1gs and 2gs use the same "DSD2 F" connector... So I think your 2g connector will plug right into the 3g MC just fine without you having to buy a new connector... unless you want to buy a new connector for another reason. If that website is wrong and the 1g and 2g connectors are not the same, I can at least tell you that the 1g connector plugs right into the 3g MC FWIW.
 
Thank you Guys! Yes it's the same connection. Unfortunately, I think I broke the piece that clips the connector in so it keeps popping out.
 
Now that I see it's the same as some other connectors that I'm not using, I may take it off one of those wires.
 
When I did the 3g MC swap onto my 1g, I'm pretty sure that the fluid level sensor connector from my 1g plugged right into the 3g MC. According to that link that mitsubishikid posted above, it looks like both the 1gs and 2gs use the same "DSD2 F" connector... So I think your 2g connector will plug right into the 3g MC just fine without you having to buy a new connector... unless you want to buy a new connector for another reason. If that website is wrong and the 1g and 2g connectors are not the same, I can at least tell you that the 1g connector plugs right into the 3g MC FWIW.

I just got done doing a 3G MC and BB. I have had a 1G MC and BB with Brembos for a while and it felt like I had to pump the brakes twice with the 1G to get good brake pedal feel. After doing the 3G upgrade, the pedal feels like the first 1/3 to 1/2 of travel doesn't do anything, then it all of a sudden grabs (new Hawk DTC 70s). I was trying to be a guinea pig by keeping the ABS to see how things work, but I am wondering if now there is either air in the lines (I replaced the stock hard lines with SS from the 3G MC to the ABS unit and bled them fully twice) or if this is the new normal for this set up. Any thoughts from anyone (Talon77?)with a similar arrangement? Thanks!
 
No, this condition that you describe is not normal. I also retained 1g abs and my pedal feels like it is doing work (ie: moving fluid) throughout the whole stroke. Just so you know, I installed 3g Mc but kept my 1g B.B. Two thoughts: 1. You might still have air in the brakes if you bought a new 3g Mc and didn’t bench bleed it (I might have a pic of the dorman benchbleed kit in my build thread); 2. Did you adjust the brake booster rod, or your brake pedal? The fsm has a specific procedure for doing this. It could be that booster rod is not engaging the Mc until the first 1/3 of pedal is depressed. FWIW, I adjusted my brake pedal because it was way off spec, but I didn’t adjust my booster rod. I would see how off-spec you are and adjust as needed. If this doesn’t work, then maybe keep bleeding until you really get all those bubbles out.
 
No, this condition that you describe is not normal. I also retained 1g abs and my pedal feels like it is doing work (ie: moving fluid) throughout the whole stroke. Just so you know, I installed 3g Mc but kept my 1g B.B. Two thoughts: 1. You might still have air in the brakes if you bought a new 3g Mc and didn’t bench bleed it (I might have a pic of the dorman benchbleed kit in my build thread); 2. Did you adjust the brake booster rod, or your brake pedal? The fsm has a specific procedure for doing this. It could be that booster rod is not engaging the Mc until the first 1/3 of pedal is depressed. FWIW, I adjusted my brake pedal because it was way off spec, but I didn’t adjust my booster rod. I would see how off-spec you are and adjust as needed. If this doesn’t work, then maybe keep bleeding until you really get all those bubbles out.

So I am a bit confused after making the adjustments per your recommendation (thanks by the way!). I made changes that were listed in the manual as "Brake Pedal Check and Adjustment" and it refers to changing the height of the pedal. I wish I would have measured (and I can move things around and check measurements) but, it seems that what I was adjusting was the amount the BB rod was pushing up to the MC. I stopped adjusting it when there was very little play between the BB and MC. This felt right. But to see the manual call that the pedal height adjustment feels weird. It seems like it may have done both raising the height of the pedal and eliminated the freeplay between the BB and MC.

There is no freeplay in the pedal assembly itself, so that's good. But it still seems like I may have air in the lines. Not sure if I just have to do LOTS of flushing (more than 2-3 bottles worth of expensive Motul 600) or if something else is wrong. Once the brake linings are against the rotor, the Hawk 70s are awesome! This makes me think that there is not air in the lines...there just seems to be too much gap between when I start feeling resistance in the pedal and when the pads start touching the rotors...any additional thoughts for me? :)
 
Are you mixing brake fluids?
Are you catching the brake fluid you are bleeding? In order to reuse it / examine it?
How are you bleeding the brakes? What are you using? And what is your exact brake setup? I assume you're on 1g gsx brakes.
 
Are you mixing brake fluids?
Are you catching the brake fluid you are bleeding? In order to reuse it / examine it?
How are you bleeding the brakes? What are you using? And what is your exact brake setup? I assume you're on 1g gsx brakes.

Not mixing - thoroughly flushed Motul 600. Catching with a proper/official bleeder bottle. It looks as clean coming out as it does going in. 3G BB and MC, stock 1G ABS unit, Evo 8 Brembo front calipers with speed bleeders (but still the hose end is in fluid so they're not doing much of what they are designed for), PowerSlot front rotors, stock 1G rear calipers with basic rotors, ss brake lines...I think that's it. I appreciate any thoughts you have!
 
Just did this swap, to let everyone in the future know, do not attempt to attach the stock inverted flare brake lines to the 3g bubble flare master cylinder! they will leak, yes some say that they don't have any problems with leaking, but they might be confusing the fact that they hold pressure with not leaking, even though I knew better, I tried attaching the stock front brake line into the 3g master and cranking it down simply because I wanted to preserve the aesthetics if possible (I knew better), of course stepping on the brakes did not make fluid gush out anywhere and there was a solid pedal, I left plastic sheeting covering things overnight because I didn't trust that it wouldn't leak, sure enough the next day it was wet around where the line comes out of the nut, I figured it might be residual fluid so I cleaned it off again with cleaner and let it sit overnight and once again its wet with fluid, this is without anyone pushing on the brakes, its leaking simply from gravity, its not dripping but just wet, this would eventually be a drip if I drove it like that, also if fluid can get out from gravity, guess what can get in? (air), now on the rear line I bought a short piece of line from vatozone with a bubble on one end and an inverted flare on the other end for around $5.00, no leaks back there and I just bent it under the master cylinder so its not visible

Trying to use the inverted hex flare in a bubble socket is the equivalent of pushing two open ended V's against each other and expecting them to seal thousands of pounds of pressure, its just not the way, there is nothing there for either line to seat against and your just crushing the two together and hoping for the distorted ends to seal from force. After a trip to Summit I once again cleaned things up, laid down new plastic, made a mess and did things the way that I should have from the beginning and saved the time and trouble, Im going to be nice and not give false hope to anyone trying to make this work with stock fittings, anyway here is the part numbers you need to make this work properly, these can be had for a few bucks at Summit Racing, you will need two of each unless you want to bend a piece of hard line from the parts store for the rear line.

FRA-650310
FRA-650202
EAR-63010110ERL
 
Either way, as long as no one tries to run them with the stock fittings, they are too important to cheap out and rig them, my lines are painted with the rest of the underhood area and bending them would crack the paint off, so I wanted to leave the stock bends alone.
 
That listing only for one adapter, so order two ?


Also thank the two of you for the final clarification I read this long drawn out thread with so many yes/ no/maybe so/abs/ect...

It’s nice to finally find a clear consistent answer.

Correct, that is just for one adapter. So you'll need to order two and bend one of the lines by hand to use it (it bends very easily). Or, if you don't want to bend the line, you can use motomattx's solution.
 
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