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300-350hp 14b Setup options opinions

Posted by n00btalon, Jul 28, 2009

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  1. n00btalon

    n00btalon Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 13, 2005
    lebanon, Pennsylvania
    Alright my goal is 300-350hp... im looking to stick with the 14b :D have mine rebuilt what not... what are some of my options to achieve this? simplicity is key... but at the same time im open to all options and opinions... i know some of you guys like the budget power and others like ''doing it the right way''. So what are some of my options to achieve this and what do you have to say?

    right now...

    1g Talon AWD

    3'' Turbo back... (3'' high flow cat... apexi n1)

    EVO 3 Manifold...

    Boost Gauge...

    Fidanza 2.1 Clutch and Fidanza Flywheel


    thats pretty much what i have right now... :rocks:ROFL
     

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  2. Dsmj89

    Dsmj89 Proven Member

    2,150
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    Joined Nov 11, 2008
    Miami, Florida
    I don't think you'd reach your goal with the 14b. If anything a 14b with full bolt-ons and a tune should net around mid-200's. If you don't want to go bigger turbo or at least a 16g, then you can always go bottle.
     
  3. n00btalon

    n00btalon Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 13, 2005
    lebanon, Pennsylvania
    really? cause i swear theres some guys on here talking about hitting over 300hp to the wheels with a 14b? im not looking to the wheels... thats 300-350hp flywheel :D. this thing is gonna be my daily driver...
     
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  4. deerhunter0881

    deerhunter0881 Proven Member

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    Joined Jan 7, 2008
    Lake Ariel, Pennsylvania
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  5. bluegs03

    bluegs03 Proven Member

    434
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    Joined Apr 4, 2007
    Dallas, Texas
    Well first off you are going to need DSMlink at the minimum because you will need to control timing, bigger fuel injectors maybe? possibly a fuel pump, and a fpr. Something to port your turbine housing, maybe even upgrade to a 16g housing that would be most efficent and its still technically a 14b. Also a manual boost controller, intercooler kit, maybe meth kit to really reach your goal of 300.

    Basically even with all of this you are going to be hard pressed to even reach 300. If you are into simplicity and HAVE to stay with your 14b, then the easy thing to do is throw some nitrous oxide in there, which is pointless but it does get results. YouTube - T25 NOS Eclipse Dyno
     
  6. n00btalon

    n00btalon Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 13, 2005
    lebanon, Pennsylvania

    okay then lets just say i'd be willing to go to a 16g... what are your suggestions then :)
     
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  7. toofast82

    toofast82 Proven Member

    2,614
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    Joined Feb 8, 2005
    Tinley Park, Illinois
    You could achieve this and much more by burning your own eproms for far less than the cost of link
    Logger, cable- ~$50-75
    Ecu socketing- $60
    Chip burner- $40-100
    Chips-$5/per
    Tunerpro- $free
    Research- $free

    If you have a laptop, you can buy the ostrich emulator for ~$175 instead of the chip burner and tune in "real time" like link instead of having to take the ecu out to reburn chips
    Welcome to www.moates.net! : Moates.Net

    First Generation DSM EPROM Editing
    TunerPro and TunerPro RT - Professional Automobile Tuning Software
    DSM-Ecu Yahoo group

    As far as the 14b goes: The compressor flow 34lb/min so its plenty capable of 300whp, which is a little over 350 crank hp. I would highly recommend a 7cm turbine housing from a 16g turbo or better yet an Evo3 turbine housing because it has a larger 2.5" exit. You will need to run 20psi+ to achieve this. I would probably recommend an E85 setup because it will allow you to run more timing and in turn make more power. Obviously you will need a larger fuel pump and injectors to do this as well as full fuel/timing control. The stock 1g timing curve is very aggressive and is knock happy above 15psi on pump without some sort of control.
    A set of cams wouldn't hurt either
     
  8. eclipseGSTud

    eclipseGSTud Proven Member

    271
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    Joined Mar 10, 2005
    Party City, California
    Noobtalon stated he wants to reach at least 300hp on the 14b which is obtainable on the 14b, but 300+ whp would be a goal that is hard to reach. If you're planning to use pump gas you'll probably need to use methanol injection and be boosting around 25 psi to reach 300 WHP, but for 300 HP 20+ should get your close if not there depending on the health of your engine. If you check the dyno records on the forum for 14b records shows the highest whp for 1g is 254.7 whp at 19.14 psi. That user's car, DSMcamaro, is a 91 talon tsi which is FWD. Your car being AWD you'll see a higher drive train loss for whp. You should check DSMcamaro's mod list and compare your list to his. I would suggest using a 16g since the price between a 14b and 16g isn't much. Since you already have the 14b I would give the 14b a try and see how it goes. I recommend porting your existing o2 housing to reduce the bottleneck restriction in your exhaust system, get meth injection system, FMIC, dsmlink or some other tuning/datalogging program, larger injectors, and 190lph fuel pump. Best of luck!
     
  9. 98srt

    98srt Proven Member

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    Joined May 8, 2009
    Wilmington, North Carolina
    Seems like a good meth kit is key on smaller turbo's, not to gain power, but to reduce the loss of power by pump gas and hotter intake temps.
     
  10. n00btalon

    n00btalon Proven Member

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    lebanon, Pennsylvania
    I'm looking at extremepsi... which meth kit would you suggest?
     
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  11. DWR-DSM

    DWR-DSM Proven Member

    674
    2
    Joined Jul 5, 2008
    Schenectady, New York
    I like the SP kit
     
    My DSM:
    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    54.120 @ 591.920 MPH
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  12. n00btalon

    n00btalon Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 13, 2005
    lebanon, Pennsylvania
    as far as the intake goes what would you suggest? a 2g with maftranslator or a blow-thru setup? Plus what is that one manual boost controller everyone talks about from ebay?
     
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  13. zhjiln

    zhjiln Proven Member

    364
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    Joined Jul 12, 2008
    Fresno, California
  14. habitatguy187

    habitatguy187 Proven Member

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    Indianapolis, Indiana
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  15. Highbooost

    Highbooost Banned Member

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    Joined Jan 31, 2006
    Dayton, Ohio
    Why?? You are just going to over work the turbo and kill it. Get the proper parts for the proper HP that will make your car last longer :thumb:

     
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  16. Phil1320

    Phil1320 Supporting Member

    2,050
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    Joined Dec 9, 2002
    Rocky Hill, Connecticut
    I'm way late to this thread but I can definitely give some input if the guy is still interested.

    The 14b*on a good running engine* can pretty easily drop more than 250 HP at the wheels.

    I will use my car as the example.

    With, K&N, MAF mods, MBC @ 21 psi, 2.5" downpipe, 3" cat-back, ported 2G manifold, original 14b turbine housing and O2 housing, and fuel pump, NO FUEL CONTROL or CHIP the car put down 265.9 HP and 282 Torque. Less than $1000 in mods. My 1/4 time was 12.02@112, YES the car had a decent amount of weight out. This was using VP C16 fuel.

    I went to an O2 dump, played with timing, 3" downpipe, and added 550 injectors and an AFC and horsepower numbers started to walk up into the 280 area.

    I'll jump forward to the current set up:

    2G MAF, FP Race Manifold, Extreme S/S O2 housing with Tial 40mm gate, ACT Streetlight flywheel, EVO FMIC, lightweight crank, water pump, alternator pullies, APexi Super AFC 2, and Driveshaft shop aluminium driveshaft.

    At 16 psi the car baselined at 285 HP at the wheels and 290 Torque. Back up at 21 psi, the car put down 295 HP and 337 Torque. Uncorrected, it was 304 HP and 348 Torque.

    Estimate horsepower at the crank is about 359.

    The car has run 11.59 @ 116.85.....YES the car is VERY light now, about 2595 lbs. with me in it.

    ALSO, my engine is BONE STOCK original with 80,600 miles on the clock. It still has balance shafts and all.


    My feeling on this is that you don't need GM MAF, or DSMlink, or a meth kit to make pretty awesome power on the 14b. With pump gas, sure, power output may be down, if you're looking to make power on a daily driver, but 250 at the ground should be a walk in the park on pump gas.

    I would agree that DSMlink would help my car make more power. Maybe going to blow through would as well, but, I can't comment on that.

    I have never made more power on the 14b going over 21 psi. And between 16 and 21 psi there isnt much more horsepower to be made, but LOTS of torque.

    I've always kept it simple. And simple on the 14b can churn out some pretty awesome power!

    Unfortuantely, the average weight of the DSM can not always demonstrate how great the turbo is doing when it's so small. And, for me that's where the weight reduction comes in. It's tough to create a great power to weight ratio in a full weight DSM on the stock turbo.

    My car sits at about 6.49 pounds per horsepower.

    At stock weight with the same power=8.66 pounds per horsepower....big difference.

    That's my .02

    PS--oversize intercooler piping and modifiying the inlet/outlet of the factory SMIC to 2.25" proved to do ablsolutely nothing by way of performance in my case. I say go straight for the FMIC, the car picked up quite a bit of power with that.

    The highest HP at the wheels that I know of with the 14b is 324.....there is only one other out there that is higher, but, I don't know the number....it is a FWD car.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2009
    My DSM:
    Phil1320 1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    11.490 @ 113.850 MPH
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  17. VTEC KILLR

    VTEC KILLR Proven Member

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    Joined Sep 9, 2005
    Portsmouth, Ohio
    Wow Phil1320, you give me some hope....very impressive.
     
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  18. Phil1320

    Phil1320 Supporting Member

    2,050
    29
    Joined Dec 9, 2002
    Rocky Hill, Connecticut
    Glad I could shed a bit of light. A good running 14b car at full weight should be able to run 12.4-12.7 with decent driving. If you go the weight reduction, no daily driver route, I won't say the Sky is the limit, but there's limits that I haven't explored yet for sure. I'll be back at the track Friday the 16th. I will post results in the Drag Strip forum here if you are interested.

    Take care and good luck with your goals!:hellyeah:
     
    My DSM:
    Phil1320 1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    11.490 @ 113.850 MPH
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  19. Lonewolf64

    Lonewolf64 Proven Member

    46
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    Joined Mar 30, 2009
    Richmond, Virginia
    The 14b is a very capable turbo. ~270whp is obtainable for the regular Joe granted a healthy turbo and motor. I would be looking at a decent FMIC, larger injectors, fuel pump, AFPR, keydiver chip, wideband, SAFC, and 3inch exhaust, and an MBC.

    Let the Keydiver chip do most of your work for you, then fine tune your AFRs with the wideband/SAFC combination. You could run 17-18psi, basically the most before you are way to far out of the efficiency range of the 14b. That should net you your goals. If it doesn't, and you are dead-set on sticking with a 14b, you could add to that a water/meth injection kit. Due to it's charge cooling effects, you could run a lot more boost and still be within efficiency range of the 14b. I would say spraying 50/50 water/meth on the previously mentioned setup and running somewhere around 20-22psi, you could see 300whp and have a really nasty street setup with full boost before 3k.
     
  20. DSMunknown

    DSMunknown Proven Member

    2,950
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    Joined Sep 16, 2004
    Worcester, Massachusetts
    • Evo 3 turbine housing (unported) = :thumb:
    • 272 combo for the extra topend pull
    • Larger injectors a must (at least 660cc)
    • FMIC
    • Upgrade the fuel pump (with the rewire)
    • Set boost @ low 20s
     
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  21. 1GASonny

    1GASonny Previously Krypto1g

    31
    3
    Joined Apr 4, 2018
    St. Petersburg, Florida
    This is all awesome to read and also gives me hope to have fun with my 14b while getting supporting mods to go 'bigger' down the road.

    Thanks for the guys putting in their .02 on their 14b setup.

    I'm just getting around to getting LINK. My car is bone stock otherwise other than stock.
     
    My DSM:
    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
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    ErikTande likes this.
  22. ErikTande

    ErikTande Supporting Member

    759
    165
    Joined Dec 17, 2012
    Centennial, Colorado
    I hit 280 hp on my 14b on E85. It's definitely do-able.

     
    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    T25   manual
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  23. tametalon92

    tametalon92 Proven Member

    1,437
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    Rathdrum, Idaho
    I'm going to try and max mine out before switching it out, should have plenty of capability after the Intercooler and other things I'm doing currently. I've run it as high as 21psi, no Dyno numbers tho, and my 1/4 times weren't great as my knock sensor was sending out a static 6* knock anywhere over throttle/rpm link settings. Believe the best I got was a 13.8, don't recall the mph, and I can't find my slips.

    I know I'll be interested to see how it does!
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

      manual
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
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  24. chrysler kid

    chrysler kid Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 20, 2002
    Mckinney, Texas
    Nitrous
     
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  25. tametalon92

    tametalon92 Proven Member

    1,437
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    Joined Jan 5, 2012
    Rathdrum, Idaho
    Nitrous is boring :p

    kinda a cheater way for this particular kind of goal. Sure it works and is cheap, but doesn't further innovation.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

      manual
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
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