2G 2g Megan adjustable camber arms

[Tyeler18]

I haven't seen any reviews on these yet, so I was curious if anyone's used the megan adjustable front upper arms for a 2g?
http://www.proimporttuners.com/part...aign=product&gclid=CLXk4KPZ_sMCFRSEfgodLwMAZw

I'm concerned with the quality being a megan product as well as the travel/size of the ball joint section as it looks fairly bulky. If these are junk I'll just get the ingalls kit, but I've used them before and had issues with the adjustment staying in place. These will be on a competitive autox 2g awd, so proper camber adjustment is going to be crucial.

 

[ACM]

The Megans may or may not work - the only way to determine that is to measure the vertical height of the ball joint body (the socket wrench hardware can be replaced by button heads). Depending on what class you're running in auto-x Ingalls may not be legal, they might possibly be OK for ST* running uncompetitive tyres, since you are running street tyres, but they are in no way suitable for race tyres.

I ran these
http://www.proimporttuners.com/parts/mitsubishi/eclipse-ingalls-front-camber-adjusting-mounts.html
on my street car and they moved - constantly. They are no good if you have decent grip. If you don't have decent grip, then why do you care ...

The most reliable front camber kits I have used are second one down here :
http://www.jscspeed.com/catalog/Mit...stment_Kits_for_95_99_Mitsubishi_Eclipse.html

It doesn't get you all the camber you need, but what you get you actually get to keep. Any more -ve camber than this and you have to machine it yourself unfortunately.

I cannot believe that no DSM vendor has solved this simple problem already ! It is the bane of 2G ownership. I would buy three sets of properly adjustable upper A-arms tomorrow - just to shut up wifey, who hates every camber kit I've come up with, except the aforementioned SPC kit that I have to get the grease gun out every bloody month in order to avoid getting my ear bent about all the nasty squeaky noises coming from her beloved Indy Red 2G AWD ! Princess and her car...

I mean really, how hard is it to build a 2G upper A-arm with adjusatable inner pickups - off the shelf replaceable 2G Moog ball joints - done. If I had the time I'd do it myself, but...

Just to expand on my complaint - 2Gs have been around for 20 years (!). All that is needed is an upper A-arm with adjustable inner pickups. That would allow all the camber and caster adjustment adjustment any 2G owner could ask for. But nothing. I mean - really ? You could build new arms from scratch, you could modify arms on exchange (all the parts are readily available from Pegasus) - if I'd ever managed to weld anything other than my knee cap I'd do it myself. This is not rocket science (except for me).

 

[MITSUMURDOK]

It says on the Megan Racing website that there will be clearance issues with those and it advises you to measure before purchasing.

 

[EC17PSE]

They are cheap! But there going to be problems just like there toe arms and lateral arms for the rear, they dont fit very well.

Im actually just prepping for parts to make my own upper wishbone arms for the front first (rears after) and just parts not including metals or time is $225 and thats top of the range spec race spherical bearings and rod ends and the correct shaft unit for the top of the knuckle. Ive just got to make my jig to make sure they stay once i welded them. Wil be nicer then megans and over engineered haha.

I would be interested in some feedback if anyone does get these megan units!

 

[tsiboosted]

I cannot speak to the Megan parts the OP is asking about, though I run both the front and rear Ingalls camber kits and have been nothing but pleased with their results.

They are tried and true application for 2G's (in my opinion) and would run nothing more at this point on the race car. Fairly easy to adjust (so says our mechanics) and have never failed or through us off in any way as far as adjustments were concerned.

 

[bjones18]

Remove the UCA, pull the "bushing bolts" Cut the rings off & weld them with the offset to get desired camber. If you want adjustment, make a second set with your track-camber setting.

I could not stand the rotatable cams. Too much noise without the rubber bushings.

 

[TSiAWD666]

Weld arms into the desired camber??? You have got to have zero experience whatsoever setting up a car for anything.

 

[bjones18]

Wrong-O... Lucifer,

I've been A suspension technical specialist for 15 years. Designed many suspensions... three of my IRS designs are in mass production... hundreds of thousands of people driving on my designs. Six patents on suspension designs, I've been a Formula SAE design judge for 7 years, written a few SAE papers... here's one for ya:

http://papers.sae.org/1999-01-0030/

You might want to read the post again.

 

[TSiAWD666]

You resume is absurd and how you could recommend this to the low budget novice users of this site is beyond me Have you ever changed tire sizes or brands, or even driven and tuned for more than one track? You have got to be full of shit here.

 

[jakelandry]

I hope this goes a few more posts without getting caught.

 

[bjones18]

The mod discussed is extreeemly simple. Push the UCA pivot-bushes outboard (if you want less camber due to lowering). This can be achieve by very simply cutting the bushing ring off of the UCA attachment bolts. Holding the bolt & ring in a vise and re-weld them together with an offset. Re-assemble them into the UCA and reinstall the UCA back into the car.

As for your question, Yes I have been on more than one track, and been to Bonduraunt with Mustangs. Most fun car on the track was a Lola Sports-2000... a total blast. I don't race, not enough time-or-money with Wife & three kids. Your question on changing tire size? look at my profile pic.. I had a lot of work to fit M3 wheels inside that fender... notice the bricks? No spring. Your question on tuning... Yes...I've tuned take-a-part shocks and evaluated the result on road... valving them with different piston orifices and assembling different washer stacks, and bleed disks.

My turn:
Have you ever been a passenger on the track with one of the top ten (of all time) F1 race car drivers in the world? Ever felt how smooth his transitions are? How he balances the available grip with cornering-accel/braking? Have you ever been to one of his multi-week development-driver trainings? Have you followed that up with a 6-week development driver training with "blind part swaps?" Was there a change made to the vehicle? What part changed? What driving technique did you use to figure out what part was changed? Change made to the front suspension? or rear suspension? or steering? or... NO change AT ALL. Speaking of blind... have you ever sat in a racing seat -blindfolded while a computer rotates the seat back and forth in the yaw-direction while you steer to maintain forward direction; correcting the computer induced yaw-rate, steering the wheel with ONLY your vestibular tubes inside your ear as feedback! Blindfolded NO eyes! I wish I could match a buddies achievement, he has been on several tracks in Multimatics simulator:

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Would you like to discuss which hard-point (XYZ) coordinates to modify in order to reduce throttle off oversteer? How ackerman geometry interacts caster-trail to affect steering return-ability? hub & bearing effects on camber compliance? Suspension elasto-kinematices? How about axle-wind-up & system resonances effects on wheel hop? Or what mistake did Mitsu make when copying BMWs double-ball-joint suspension for our DSMs. Maybe you would rather talk about Abaqus non-linear FEA and whether to evaluate VonMises or Max Principal stresses for A380 Aluminum. Maybe discuss boundary conditions when using CFD to model fuel-injector pressure-pulses and how they interact in a fuel rail, potentially affecting fuel delivery.

Proof positive? You might read my tech article about resolving 4G63 crankwalk. See the thrust bearing in the pic below? You might recognize my thumb in the pic.

Again, What originally started this was getting proper static camber in a 2g front suspension. The UCA has two "ring-bolts" which house a bushing. It is relatively easy to cut the ring off of the bolt... offset the ring and weld it back on... such that when re-assembled it gives desired camber (2x ring bolts per UCA). With your eagle eye, and quick response I am confident you picked out the "static" comment above... and realized this method ALSO allows you to modify the camber gain if desired....

If you run street & track, a second set can be fab-d and swapped at the track for "track camber setting."

This is kinda fun... Jake... you like?

Lucifer... if you drive on the track I fully respect your effort... You have 100X the knowledge of the average person on this forum. The average person on this forum has about 4X the knowledge of guys on some BMW forums I've been on. By the way... your number is not a good one if you are a believer.... If you are not a believer... how can I help?

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Weld arms into the desired camber??? You have got to have zero experience whatsoever setting up a car for anything.

I thought quite a few guys ran cut stock upper arms to get good camber?

 

[EC17PSE]

I thought quite a few guys ran cut stock upper arms to get good camber?

Like these. They are done by few but honestly i would not want to run these myself.

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[bjones18]

I see a couple issues here:
a. No need to cut the integrity of the arm. The pic's above show increased weight to the arm.
b. Racers don't add weight; they remove 0.03 lbs from every part on the car, without compromising integrity.
c. remove the bushing "ring-bolts," from the UCA - push the bushing out. Cut the ring off the bolt. weld ring at new position on bolt.
d. I do not like the adjustable mechanism pictured above. Similar to a cam-bush I tried.... clunk... clunk... clunk.
e. Note the close proximity of the "silver" adjuster to the "black arm." repeat after me... click... scrape... touch.
f. Hard to tell... but looks like fab'er above shortened the arm (Ydir) to make up for offset of adjustable "ring-bolts."
g. make a second set of "fixed" ring bolts for the track/autocross camber if needed.

 

[2slow4now]

How would you suggest a garage tinkerer measure (for weld placement) the cut bushing ring to make sure each are moved the same amount? I suppose you could make a holding jig to keep the placement the same on all four.

 

[bjones18]

There are many ways to skin the cat. I was reducing camber due to lowering springs... so needed less static-camber. I cut the ring off... then ground a flat on the bolt (along with a weld chamfer) and welded the ring offset from the center-line of the bolt.

***A couple of Warnings****
A: Generally, I wouldn't recommend welding suspension members unless you are a certified welder. For our suspensions, the loads in the UCA are relatively low due to the huge span between UCA and LCAs; so it's not as likely to fatigue or such.

B: Any time you modify suspension hard-points you are changing more "kinematic parameters" than you think. The mod suggested reduces the camber-gain a bit since the ring is welded a bit higher on the bolt. I wasn't worried since lowering already increases the camber gain due to the UCA angle. Again, the long span works to minimize issues.

C: measure your static camber and calculate how much offset you need (Trigonometry).

D: check your fit, clearances, and camber with tack-welds. Full weld when you are satisfied.

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[Wufei]

Did anyone end up running these? Looking into them myself

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Bump. Anyone out there with a set of these?

 

[GRNDSM]

It has been a year and still no reviews! Personally, I would not keep those washers on the slot. Instead I would make a plate to father distribute the load from each bolt. I would also get higher quality hardware...

Bjones also proposes a good solution. Though, we need a range of offset values that should correlate to resulting camber.

 

[ileagleracing]

The Megan arms have the same issues as the SPC arms below that used to be available. The area circled below is larger than the stock arm and the ball joint is taller: it WILL hit your inner fenders. I've got the dents to prove it.

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Those cut/welded arms ec17pse posted are mine. Still on my STX car. I did get the wrong Ingals camber bolts, those are the +1 to +2 kit, should have ordered the +/-1 kit. But I was able to get 2.5 negative camber, with those arms.

I do plan on going with another concept on my SM car, but until I get the $ for that, Charles (ACM) is letting me borrow his upper arms which are also cut and welded, but have custom offset bushings in place of the Ingalls kit. I think we were running 3 degrees negative camber and the arms held up fine running 285 Hoosier A6's. They held up so well that it was the sleeves in the frame that would fail.

 

[IQ685]

Would you like to discuss which hard-point (XYZ) coordinates to modify in order to reduce throttle off oversteer? How ackerman geometry interacts caster-trail to affect steering return-ability? hub & bearing effects on camber compliance? Suspension elasto-kinematices? How about axle-wind-up & system resonances effects on wheel hop? Or what mistake did Mitsu make when copying BMWs double-ball-joint suspension for our DSMs. Maybe you would rather talk about Abaqus non-linear FEA and whether to evaluate VonMises or Max Principal stresses for A380 Aluminum. Maybe discuss boundary conditions when using CFD to model fuel-injector pressure-pulses and how they interact in a fuel rail, potentially affecting fuel delivery.

I'm not sure about him, but I absolutely love to, or at least learn the subject as I'm somewhat green on suspension physics.

 

[GRNDSM]

The Megan arms have the same issues as the SPC arms below that used to be available. The area circled below is larger than the stock arm and the ball joint is taller: it WILL hit your inner fenders. I've got the dents to prove it.

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I kind of like those arms! Are they still available, by chance? I am not lowering much, any chance they might not hit the inner fender?

 

[ileagleracing]

I kind of like those arms! Are they still available, by chance? I am not lowering much, any chance they might not hit the inner fender?

They may still be available, however even at stock ride height there is still enough suspension travel that they will hit under full compression.
You possibly could trim the circled area to conform to the stock arm contour and still be structurally OK, but I wasn't willing to try it on a "race" car.

 

[EC17PSE]

The SPC arms are not around/cast anymore neither are the balljoints, they ceised making them a while ago. However i think ingals makes an outer balljoint similer as ive seen something recently on a website i came across, so check that out but you have to retain the stock arm though

 

[GRNDSM]

They may still be available, however even at stock ride height there is still enough suspension travel that they will hit under full compression.
You possibly could trim the circled area to conform to the stock arm contour and still be structurally OK, but I wasn't willing to try it on a "race" car.

Is this problem common with all "adjustable ball joints", because they are taller than the regular ball joints and result in higher control arm?