2G 2g GSX Clutch issues

[PrimerPLus]

I am having issue with my clutch pedal and clutch slippage.
I don't know if my clutch is slipping because the clutch is not adjusted correctly, or
if my clutch pedal feels wrong because my clutch is going bad and slipping.

I have South Bend Clutch Heavy Duty TZ/B-Series Kevlar/Ceramic Clutch
and ACT Streetlite flywheel. This has been resurfaced maybe 2 times in the past 4 or 5 years. It has been at least a year since the last time it was resurfaced.

So Clutch pedal has about 2-3 inches of travel from the top(resting) to where it engages as your press on the clutch.
As you are coming back up it comes up hard to where you first engage it at and then it goes weak and kind of pops back all the to the rest point.

I have tried adjusting the master cylinder adjustment rod under the dash. If I go in towards the firewall it makes the clutch nice and stiff how I would like it to be all the way from top (rest) to the floor and back again BUT I can not press the slave cylinder in by hand if it is like that.
When I adjust the rod back out so that the cylinder is able to be pressed in by hand (though I am not sure it is going all the way it is very difficult to press it) the clutch pedal goes back to like it was, press on clutch from top(rest) and it will engange clutch as about 2 inches down.

I have the short Stainless Steel line that runs from the hard line to slave cylinder, newish (maybe year old or so) slave and master cylinders both OEM from JNZ.
And I also have a speed bleeder on the Slave cylinder. When I bleed the clutch I have a line running from slave cylinder nipple into a glass bottle with Brake fluid in it so no chance of any air going into the system.

So the clutch seems to slip when around 3500 rpms if I am getting on it with load and will raise up in rpms but not speed. But if I am just cruising no slippage and I have never smelt any burning of the clutch or anything like that.

Here are some pictures and a video.
a direct link to them if they don't show up in the thread here.
https://www.amazon.com/photos/share/aadttA8i4yrieI0lBZEzhBsmnZFPu73CPfIeKDiawnV

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[miliman13]

Hey Prime listen I'm not going to pretend that I know a whole lot
but I cannot push my rod in my hand and I like to pretend I'm a little stronger than the average guy.

maybe that could be your culprit, the slave could be leaking and letting air pass. It can do this and not show an actual leak.. Same for master.

I'm going on this since I assume you addressed other concerns at the fly wheel when you last did maintnence

 

[jimsgsx]

Have you bled the crap out of it yet? Those speed bleeders can let in air once the sealant on threads wears away too. Just replaced my slave 3 days ago and tried the speed bleeders. Wasn't impressed at all. If it was me id just buy a new slave for 25 bucks and go from there. Doesn't sound like clutch slippage to me.

 

[spyderdrifter]

This sounds like issues I had a while back and it took a long time to get it resolved. Turned out the bad part was my clutch master cylinder was leaking on the inside of the car. I replaced it with a parts store unit, that looks just like yours, and I could never get it adjusted properly no matter what I did. So in the end, I bought a rebuild for my oem master and it has been mostly fine ever since. Here's a picture of what the oem unit looks like, just compare to yours.

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[dtdeg]

if you cant press the slave by hand, you've adjusted the master to far out and blocking the fluid to go back to the master, this isnt what you want ofcourse. Looking at the slave rest position, not all fluid has been returned to the master, and while drive and operating the clutch, the fork is still pressing against the pp over time, hence why your clutch is slipping. Dont you experience clutch pedal is getting stiffer and stiffer while driving ?

This is just a guess, because i think your fork is sitting way to much pointing to the driver side.

 

[Teezy]

This sounds like issues I had a while back and it took a long time to get it resolved. Turned out the bad part was my clutch master cylinder was leaking on the inside of the car. I replaced it with a parts store unit, that looks just like yours, and I could never get it adjusted properly no matter what I did. So in the end, I bought a rebuild for my oem master and it has been mostly fine ever since. Here's a picture of what the oem unit looks like, just compare to yours.

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That looks my my old autozone one, just saying.

 

[PrimerPLus]

So you guys think I should replace the master cylinder and slave cylinder? I know new parts can be faulty maybe that is my issue I don't know.

Oh wow yah that OEM does look different than mine. I was sure I ordered an OEM but maybe I didn't.

Should I run a stainless steel line from master to slave too or is it not worth it since my hardline is not leaking or broken.

 

[91talonts1]

Oh wow yah that OEM does look different than mine. I was sure I ordered an OEM but maybe I didn't.

I put a new clutch master on back in December, new OEM from ExtremePsi, and it's rod looks just like yours. It says "NABCO JAPAN" on the passenger side of it. Mitsu has probably revised and or had multiple suppliers over the years.

The original was replaced due to leakage on the inside just like spyderdrifter said.

 

[PrimerPLus]

I found my order from JNZ both are OEM the master and slave cylinder.

So maybe there is an issue with adjustment that I need to keep trying to fix.

 

[PrimerPLus]

Looking at this image and comparing it where mine is now I think it is off like you said @dtdeg
I will adjust the rod all the way in towards firewall and start from there and bleed it and make sure no bubbles, and then start adjusting the rod back towards driver seat and see if that makes any difference.

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[red_devil]

Did you shim the pivot ball? It looks to be to far over. Also adjust the rod clockwise until you cannot push the fork by hand then back it of a quater turn and re check.

 

[PrimerPLus]

No I did not shim it. It was a brand new OEM pivot ball, clutch fork, and TOB.

 

[twicks69]

the speed bleeder is a major issue with getting air into the system, and you are over adjusted causing the over-disengagement of the clutch and the clutch is likely preloading from over adjustment and air in the system. This clutch is designed to disengage 0-2" from max pedal depression. As well, how much has been machined off the flywheel all these times?

 

[PrimerPLus]

Ok well I just recently put that speedbleeder on it. Just a couple of days ago when my friend got tired of sitting in the seat and pumping the clutch. So i put that on to pump it myself. But I will put the original back on.
I looked through my records and the machinest did not specify how much was taken off to do a resurface of it, all I know is that I asked if he knew that it requires a certain step height and he said yes that he knew.
So to fix the over adjusted problem I should screw it all the way to firewall and then start backing it out? or Screw it all the way out towards driver seat and start going in towards firewall?

 

[dtdeg]

In a bad situation the other problem could be the machinist work. If you did not specify the tolarance which should be .610 - .612 inch, the bed of the pp is to deep and to less pressure is applied on the disc.

 

[PrimerPLus]

I will try to adjust it tomorrow. If no luck then I guess I will need to pull tranny.
If the flywheel is bad will I need to replace that and the clutch or just flywheel?

 

[twicks69]

If your disengagement range is near the top of the pedal, then the clutch master cylinder adjustment rod should be threaded INTO the pedal assembly to shorten the throw. I had an issue with speed bleeders causing pedal pump up (air in cylinder, so the disengagement range was never consistent and was high in the pedal range), get rid of the speed bleeder. Use them for brakes, not the clutch.

As for the flywheel, well, it could go one of two ways; measure step height, if it's between 0.608"-0.612" and the friction surface should be the same flatness the entire way across the friction plane. It should NOT be 0.608" on the outside and 0.612" on the inside if you get what I mean. Inspect the clutch for damage or uneven wear. Inspect the pressure plate diaphragm spring contact zone where the TOB engages, check the backside of the fingers for contact on the clutch disk, check the clutch disk hub for wear / damage / loose springs / bent hub or damaged rivets. Check the friction surfaces for uneven wear, such as burnt friction along the outside or inside of the friction material, etc.

 

[PrimerPLus]

I turned the adjustment rod towards firewall until I could not move the slave cylinder by hand at all. Then I bled the system with the original bleeder on it. Little bit of air came out got that all out and then backed the Master cylinder rod out enough so I could push on the slave cylinder by hand. Bled it again, no air came out.

Now The clutch is just how it was in my first video where it goes down about 2 -3 inches before it engages. The problem is it feels like it has 2 steps I just want 1 smooth clutch push down and up.

The only way to get that feeling is to adjust the master rod in towards firewall but if I do that I can not move the slave cylinder by hand at all.

With it out where I can move it, it is still difficult to press it but If I go any further with the adjustment rod towards the seat the pedal just gets lower and lower and wont return on its own.
And no matter where the master rod is at the clutch fork is still always staying in that position closest to the block (driver side).

I guess there must be an issue with something in the clutch or flywheel. I don't know.

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[twicks69]

if you are pushing it down and it is disengaging mid-way on the pedal, then feels harder as you push it down further you are OVER DISENGAGING YOUR CLUTCH. You will damage it.

 

[gofer]

if you are pushing it down and it is disengaging mid-way on the pedal, then feels harder as you push it down further you are OVER DISENGAGING YOUR CLUTCH. You will damage it.

So the fix is adjusting out the clutch switch (on the bottom of the pedal assy) or installing a clutch pedal stop to keep the throw of the pedal from over disengaging the PP, right Tim?

 

[PrimerPLus]

SO I am not sure what to do then because if I bring the rod towards driver seat the pedal gets weak and doesn't want to come back up from floor on its own.
If I go towards firewall it gets stiff and then I can't press the slave in by hand.

I have not adjusted any switches only the rod itself.

Looking at the pedal I think I see 2 switches one close to driver side that is a 14mm nut and 1 on the far back side of the pedal that switch goes in as you press the clutch down.

Also here is a video of the clutch slipping.

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[PrimerPLus]

Update:
I have it to where it will engage about 1.5" from pedal all the way at rest to pressing on it.
I backed the switch out so that it sits flush and no threads sittings out.
I think its the cruise control switch?


It feels nice but it still slips like in video.

 

[twicks69]

So the fix is adjusting out the clutch switch (on the bottom of the pedal assy) or installing a clutch pedal stop to keep the throw of the pedal from over disengaging the PP, right Tim?

There is something definitely going on with his clutch adjustment / hydraulics if the clutch is not worn out. If you look closely at the slave cylinder / clutch fork placement though, it is sitting pretty far towards the driver-side with a nearly fully compressed slave cylinder from the looks of it. This could also suggest that he has worn out the clutch disk, and that the pressure plate diaphragm spring fingers are pointing more outwards from a worn out disk. Especially if he has confirmed the adjustment, but again, since he has not pulled the transmission and actually inspected the clutch we cannot determine the condition of the clutch being ruled out, which if it was, would then confirm it's an adjustment / hydraulic issue.

Considering that from looking at my invoice history his K536SSTZ/B was 04/05/2012 purchase, and we have no idea the mileage or the usage history on the clutch, or why the flywheel has been resurfaced several times over the time span of the clutch (which could result in less than full contact of the flywheel side friction surface of the disk and reduced torque capacity), or what the actual flywheel step height is currently machined down to (which will also affect clamp range and clamp load).