20g td06 HP record?

[JusMX141]

So if we are brainstorming on how to max out a 20g compressor, what do you guys think the best combo would be?

Max torque = TD05H turbine
Max horsepower = TD06H turbine

A TD05H turbine is a little on the small side for max power output on a 20G due to the backpressure but it's great for torque because of the quick response and how the power comes on hard before 5252rpms where torque and HP plots on the graph cross.

For max horsepower with the TD06H turbine, the turbine housing choice doesn't really matter. Consider the fact that the older FP Red made big airflow numbers with a clipped TD06H turbine in a 7cm turbine housing, so obviously a TD06H turbine should handle everything that a 20G compressor can throw at it. In fact, a ported 6cm housing machined to accept a TD06H turbine could be the hot ticket for a 20G compressor concerning both spool and airflow if you're lucky enough to find one that isn't all cracked to shit.

Some interesting info pertaining to this topic which was exchanged via PM between Kevin Jewer and myself around a year ago while discussing max power extraction from certain turbos:

I have to admit the TD06H 20g was one of my all time favorite turbos. It is a great turbo for a street strip car. With the 6H wheel I would run 25 psi all day long on pump gas, and then at the track I'd crank up the boost (or pull the vac line off the WGA, ) and get 48 lb/min across the whole run on race gas. Those were the days...

So there's some hard evidence that a 20G compressor on a TD06H turbine can be pushed beyond the published compressor map, which is the key to making big HP numbers.


However, keep in mind that the TD06H 20G may not reach full boost until 4000-4200 rpms, and in this day and age we're fortunate enough to have bolt-on turbos that can outflow a 20G compressor while spooling in the same rpm range or perhaps even quicker. The above discussion pertains to maxing out the 20G compressor without regard to spool.

 

[lil corb]

Max torque = TD05H turbine
Max horsepower = TD06H turbine

A TD05H turbine is a little on the small side for max power output on a 20G due to the backpressure but it's great for torque because of the quick response and how the power comes on hard before 5252rpms where torque and HP plots on the graph cross.

For max horsepower with the TD06H turbine, the turbine housing choice doesn't really matter. Consider the fact that the older FP Red made big airflow numbers with a clipped TD06H turbine in a 7cm turbine housing, so obviously a TD06H turbine should handle everything that a 20G compressor can throw at it. In fact, a ported 6cm housing machined to accept a TD06H turbine could be the hot ticket for a 20G compressor concerning both spool and airflow if you're lucky enough to find one that isn't all cracked to shit.

Some interesting info pertaining to this topic which was exchanged via PM between Kevin Jewer and myself around a year ago while discussing max power extraction from certain turbos:

So there's some hard evidence that a 20G compressor on a TD06H turbine can be pushed beyond the published compressor map, which is the key to making big HP numbers.


However, keep in mind that the TD06H 20G may not reach full boost until 4000-4200 rpms, and in this day and age we're fortunate enough to have bolt-on turbos that can outflow a 20G compressor while spooling in the same rpm range or perhaps even quicker. The above discussion pertains to maxing out the 20G compressor without regard to spool.

Justin to clarify for me, when you mean Turbine housings. That is the option of a turbine housing of a 6cm, 7cm or 8cm correct? I guess I am a little confused as I know that td05h, td06 and td06h are turbine wheels but I have always thought that they is a such thing as a 20g td05h (td05h turbine housing) and a 20g td06h with a td06h housing. Or am I confused?

 

[JusMX141]

Maybe I'm not sure what you mean, but a TD06H 20G is a TD06H turbine and a 20G compressor no matter what compressor cover the turbo has on it.

 

[lil corb]

Maybe I'm not sure what you mean, but a TD06H 20G is a TD06H turbine and a 20G compressor no matter what compressor cover the turbo has on it.

I think i figured it out.

Found a post you made on a past threads explaining the different 20gs

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/184197-doesnt-td06-20g-say-td06-housing.html

"There are more variations of a 20G than any other turbo platform; it's not limited to just the turbine size:

"Sleeper 16G" / "Bastard 20G" = 20G compressor wheel in a TD05H compressor cover, mated to a TD05H turbine wheel.

Standard TD05H 20G = 20G compressor wheel in a TD06 cover, 2-1/4" compressor inlet, mated to a TD05H turbine. This is the most popular type of 20G for our cars. The Buschur 20G is derived from this version, with a 20* clipped TD05H turbine.

Standard TD06 20G = 20G compressor wheel in a TD06 cover, 2-1/4" compressor inlet, mated to a TD06 turbine.

TD06-SL2 20G = 20G compressor wheel in a TD06 cover, 2-1/4" compressor inlet, mated to a TD06-SL2 turbine.

Standard TD06H 20G = 20G compressor wheel in a TD06 cover, 2-1/4" compressor inlet, mated to a TD06H turbine.

Frank Level 1 20G = 46-trim Garrett compressor wheel in a TD06 17C or 20G compressor cover, 2-1/4" compressor inlet, mated to a TD05H turbine.

Frank Level 2 20G = 46-trim Garrett compressor wheel in a TD06 17C or 20G compressor cover, 2-1/4" compressor inlet, mated to a TD06 turbine.

Frank Level 3 20G = 54-trim Garrett compressor wheel in a TD06 17C (2-1/4" inlet) or upgraded 20G (3" inlet) compressor cover, mated to a TD06 turbine.

Frank Level 4 20G = 60-trim Garrett compressor wheel in an upgraded TD06 20G compressor cover, 3" inlet, mated to a TD06 turbine.

Frank Level 5 20G = 60-trim Garrett compressor wheel in an upgraded TD06 20G compressor cover, 3" inlet, mated to a TD06H turbine.

FP Green = 50-trim Garrett compressor wheel in an upgraded TD06 20G compressor cover, 3" inlet, mated to a TD06H turbine.

FP Red = 60-1 Garrett compressor wheel in an upgraded TD06 20G compressor cover, 3" inlet, mated to a clipped TD06H turbine."

Taken from the thread.

God I love learning from this site

 

[fede]

I made 430 whp on my 20g 2 weeks ago. Had a bad boost leak and the car was breaking up.... i know there is a little more on this turbo. Hopefully i can get the most out of it with a intake manifold and a ported exhaust manifold for next dyno section.

 

[gprix1]

I'm waiting for someone to try one of these.

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I have one of the Kanugawa billet 20g wheels in a TD06 housing. I am using an MHI center section and 7cm turbine housing w/ TD06SL2 turbine wheel. They don't list the billet 20g wheel on their site yet but I emailed them and got mine for $250 shipped direct from Taiwan. Was stuck in customs for a week...
This will be run on pump gas (91 octane) in my 2.4L with FP1 cams. My car is about a month away from being back on the road and another month or so before it sees a dyno.

 

[jb2zero0six5]

Any updates? I have a 20G-TD05H-7CM, looking for decent numbers on E85.

 

[xxNocturnalxx]

Max torque = TD05H turbine
Max horsepower = TD06H turbine

However, keep in mind that the TD06H 20G may not reach full boost until 4000-4200 rpms, and in this day and age we're fortunate enough to have bolt-on turbos that can outflow a 20G compressor while spooling in the same rpm range or perhaps even quicker. The above discussion pertains to maxing out the 20G compressor without regard to spool.

I'm running a Td06H 20g, I wish it spooled (18psi.) before 5k.

 

[agentorange313]

I'm running a Td06H 20g, I wish it spooled (18psi.) before 5k.

I think you might have some kind of exhaust leak, wastegate issue, or boost leak. Although the td06h will spool later than the td05 wheel, I don't think it should be around 5k for 18 psi. That seems like 700 rpms too slow.

 

[pneumo]

458AWHP and 412 AWTQ on a Mustang dyno. Pics coming soon!

 

[Jaxness]

458AWHP and 412 AWTQ on a Mustang dyno. Pics coming soon!

What type of fuel and how much boost?

 

[pneumo]

I had a fun day on the dyno! Weather was a little warm. Most pulls showed IAT (post intercooler) around 95 to 100*F. My goal was to get over 460 but it just wouldn't do it. I went up and down with the boost, up and down with AF ratio, and plenty of timing sweeps while trying to get a few more HP out of it. The only thing I didn't try was adjusting the cam gears, and I didn't want to shoot the timing again since the cams are already set aggressively and it doesn't idle too steady.

458 AWHP and 412 AWTQ on a Mustang dyno!
I still have to update my profile so the mods aren't up to date yet.

Sorry for the poor pic, the printer was low on ink.

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What type of fuel and how much boost?

Pump E85, summer blend.
Boost peaked at 34psi at 4800 rpm and drops to 25psi at 8k rpm. This turbo has an internal wastegate with a 21psi actuator.
The turbo is a standard 20G compressor wheel in a TD06 comp housing, TD06 turbine wheel in a MHI 7cm exh housing.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Awesome! What is the Cam/Head/Intake combo? And I assume your running this through a stick trans?

 

[pneumo]

Awesome! What is the Cam/Head/Intake combo? And I assume your running this through a stick trans?

Hi Nate!
Yep, I'm still using the 5 speed. It's still a street car so I'm 'sticking' with it!

I'm using a self ported 2G head, Kelford 272's, and the new FFtec SMIM. I ran the same combo on the 16G and had great results. The car feels like a Beast! There's a little lag but the torque hits hard! My car is light and the tires are a little old so it was breaking loose in second gear anytime I hit it.

 

[JusMX141]

So awesome to see that, after all these years, the 20G is still alive and well as one of the absolute best choices for an OEM turbo upgrade. It's now in it's third decade! (1990's, 2000's, 2010's)

 

[Nate Crisman]

Hi Nate!
Yep, I'm still using the 5 speed. It's still a street car so I'm 'sticking' with it!

I'm using a self ported 2G head, Kelford 272's, and the new FFtec SMIM. I ran the same combo on the 16G and had great results. The car feels like a Beast! There's a little lag but the torque hits hard! My car is light and the tires are a little old so it was breaking loose in second gear anytime I hit it.

Are you still running Jackal SD or Link? Which exhaust wheel/housing? What's your expected trap speed with this power level? Do you have a similar dyno chart from the E3 16g to draw comparison? Or even just your thoughts on the 20g vs 16g,

Sorry for so many questions, Im trying to glean as much information that I can compare to my own 20g setup (although spool/power/trap comparisons are muddied due to the stick/auto)

Congrats....

 

[pneumo]

Wow so many questions! OK I'm at lunch right now so I can't dig up all that info, but I posted my 16G times and dyno numbers in your '16G drag race discussion' thread. Basically with the exact same mods and an EVO3 16G turbo I ran 10.48@ 130.1. I ran this 20G last Fall for only two passes without changing the tune from the 16G tune and it ran 10.5@130, so it was probably making the same power as the 16G on that tune. I noticed the 20G holds power better at high rpm, which it should since it's a bigger turbo. Now that I have it tuned it should be capable of low 10's at 132mph.

The exhaust side is MHI 7cm housing with a TD06 wheel. No 'H'.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Heh, there is no such thing as "too much information"

 

[blue blaze]

Those numbers and times are out of sight for a 20g. i have an fp green on my driver, built 2.1 same 272 aem and I am struggling to make that same power through a dynojet.

 

[pneumo]

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that I'm running native speed/density code in the ecu. It doesn't have a name since I've re-written almost everything in the EPROM code to make it drive nice and put the power down better. All I can say is that I'm using TunerPro RT to change the tune and still writing code in raw hex.

I really like these mid size turbos. The spool is quick enough for spirited street driving, yet it can still put down huge power with the right mods and tune.

 

[94awdcoupe]

pneumo, how much does car weigh? 10.48 at 130.1 is monster impressive for 16g.
would like to see the list of mods.
and why the heck not just use ecmlink????

 

[pneumo]

pneumo, how much does car weigh? 10.48 at 130.1 is monster impressive for 16g.
would like to see the list of mods.
and why the heck not just use ecmlink????

Thanks! It was a fun project, a nice way to stretch my skills.

The car weighs 2770 with me in it. I'd like to strip it and make it lighter, but like I said it's driven on the street so I'm keeping the dash, heater, lights, door beams, rear floor, etc., plus I like a nice seat with good padding since I have to drive nearly 3 hours to get to the track.

OK basic mods list;
2.0 engine with Wiseco 9.0:1 comp pistons, Eagle rods.
2G head with FFtec SMIM, Kelford 272 cams, Kiggly beehive springs, S90 70mm TB, big FMIC,
Fuel; FIC 1450 injectors, stock hardline, E85, twin Walbro's 255HP in tank with ECU controlling the second pump, Old HKS AFPR.

Fully build 5 speed trans with EVO3 gears, 4 spider center diff, Quaife front diff, PTT twin disc clutch.

Koni/coilovers with custom spring rates. Aluminum upper and lower rear control arms. Custom alignment.

I do all my own work on the car; engine, trans, suspension, tuning, and coding the ecu. I don't do paint and body work, and it shows.

I know ECM link is nice, but it didn't always offer all the features of the current version. I saw the value of having complete control over the entire fuel and timing map way back when burning EPROM chips was the only way to go. I got good at it and my code skills progressed over the years. I just kept going with it. I can't justify spending several hundred dollars for a tuning system that will remove as many options as it adds. Besides, I can get a nice deal on full standalone setup from AEM for nearly the same price as ECMlink. So the real question is 'why the heck don't I just use AEM?"

 

[94awdcoupe]

well that explains it. 2600ish is a stripped puppy. but impressive just the same.

 

[pneumo]

I keep saying my next mod is going to be a tow vehicle and a trailer. Then I can really strip it and compete on a higher level. Who know's how much faster my car would be if it was 200-300 pounds lighter? But then I'd be driving a truck everywhere.
Meh, either way the car still makes great power.

 

[Nate Crisman]

I keep saying my next mod is going to be a tow vehicle and a trailer. Then I can really strip it and compete on a higher level. Who know's how much faster my car would be if it was 200-300 pounds lighter? But then I'd be driving a truck everywhere.
Meh, either way the car still makes great power.

I hear that! I'm loving my "lightened" street car vs my trailered track car. It's mucho fun to tune and experiment on the street again. Even if it means staying .300 slower due to street equip weight.