1990 TSi, Roll-over ready.

Posted by PotatoFlakeSTi, Nov 27, 2011

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  1. PotatoFlakeSTi

    PotatoFlakeSTi Proven Member

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    Wall, New Jersey
    Car is under new ownership:
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/1990-tsi-roll-over-ready.420537/page-4#post-153481538

    This thread will continue to be updated by the new owner.


    Competitive driving has been a long time coming for me, I just needed to get the right car... Stepping away from the garage queen and getting something that looks better dirty. The car has been logbooked since 1998, and will meet atleast a grandfathering for the cage. It was built WELL beyond the rules at the time, featuring main hoop gussets to the shell, a diagonal roof bar, mainhoop supports, and .120 thickness mild steel. Unfortunately the tubing for the main-hoop is 1.5" OD, but I would not be afraid to roll in this vehicle.

    Let's start out with some pictures from the cars 1998-1999 debut;
    kJG13.jpg
    vr7bH.jpg

    The car was built well enough to last this long, and has been through a whole lot of stage rallies. I bought the car to compete in the Colorado Hill Climbs.

    The car was rolled by the previous owner, the majority of the damage wasn't from the roll-over, but from the front impact that caused the car to slowly roll and slide on its roof.

    The front Subframe was replaced and the front of the vehicle seam-welded. (Guess they forgot the front motor mount though, more on that later)
    IH08h.png


    The day I picked her up;
    ObJbr.jpg

    A few pictures of the cage (sorry they're not great)
    cvZpd.jpg
    VtmIN.jpg

    And a picture of the fuses, & rally computer.
    OzsJw.jpg


    I have done a single Rally-X with the car, and didn't do particularly well, second to last in a pretty competitive Modified AWD class. I would have been up two spots had I not lost 10 seconds on each of my first runs in either direction...
    Suspension was set at full soft, which was probably a big mistake as the course was extremely slow and relatively flat. Also ran over 30PSI in all 4 tires.

    Either way, it was a GREAT learning experience!

    The following week, I took the car out to a "Sprint" course in the same area with a group of people, some new, some very experienced. Most notably Dave Kern Kern Racing ? Rally Racing Team who spent about 3 hours switching from driver to passenger with me. He's very used to AWD Turbos, racing a 600+hp Evo up Pikes Peak and getting on the podium is no small task. We played with the suspension, and found a good middle-ground.

    RA3Ze.jpg
    Jnsj2.jpg

    We experienced a loss of power after a while, car still built boost (~16psi) but it felt like hitting a wall when boost got about 8psi, so I turned the boost to 7-8psi. Still had a little hesitation when the boost hit at 3500ish.
    Mr. Kern took a few video clips, wish we had got footage while she had good power.

    [ame= Talon C.O.R.E. Sprint - YouTube[/ame]
     

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    Last edited: Dec 18, 2014
  2. ilco187

    ilco187 Proven Member

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    what about some engine pics.
     
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  3. PotatoFlakeSTi

    PotatoFlakeSTi Proven Member

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    Joined Oct 2, 2011
    Wall, New Jersey
    DF827.jpg
     
  4. dragonov_elite

    dragonov_elite Proven Member

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    Looks good man. I wouldn't mind trying this someday considering I grew up on gravel most of my life :)
     
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  5. airmail96

    airmail96 Proven Member

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    I love seeing these cars playing in the dirt, rallying looks like it could be fun.
     
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  6. PotatoFlakeSTi

    PotatoFlakeSTi Proven Member

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    Wall, New Jersey
    So I tried to determine why the car was down on power.

    Checking the intercooler I found that it was HARD PACKED with mud and dirt.
    Here is a picture with about 1/2 of it already gone, it fell off during removal.
    O19F3.jpg

    I gave it a quick bath, much better.

    4Ko94.jpg

    I also noticed that the front engine mount and bracket weren't at all installed, so that will be next on the list.

    The UEGO wideband sensor was damaged, along with the factory sized oil-filter from engine movement causing impacts with the subframe undoubtedly caused by the lack of a front motor mount.

    There is no noticeable amount of oil in the charge piping, so I think I can rule out piston rings as a problem.
    I also tightened down a lot of the piping, the T-clamps all took about 1 full turn before feeling tight enough for my liking.
    So the problem could have to do with a boost leak causing the turbo to overboost I suppose.
     
  7. Lofty

    Lofty Moderator

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    Waukesha, Wisconsin
    I love this thread.

    *see avatar*


    More!

    Please tell me what wheels those are?
     
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  8. PotatoFlakeSTi

    PotatoFlakeSTi Proven Member

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    Wall, New Jersey
    They're Compomotive TH2 "Gravel Motorsport"
    I have 3 full sets.
     
  9. Lofty

    Lofty Moderator

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    Thank you very much!
     
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  10. PotatoFlakeSTi

    PotatoFlakeSTi Proven Member

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    A fun example of sidewall strength of gravel tires versus all-weather tires;

    i5J5H.jpg

    1XdN3.jpg
     
  11. jtmcinder

    jtmcinder DSM Wiseman

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    Very nice. I assume that you'll be getting a front-mount at some point, so you don't need to unpack the mud again, yes?
     
  12. PotatoFlakeSTi

    PotatoFlakeSTi Proven Member

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    Wall, New Jersey
    I got one laying around, but it'll be a predicament in a few areas.

    1. The coolant needs to stay cool for ~10+ miles of uphill dirt driving.

    2. The car has a skidplate starting from the very edge of the bumper to the rear axles. To achieve this a set of reinforced bars has been welded between the subframe and bumper beam which will make fitment difficult.

    3. Jumps turned nose-dive could ruin my day with a FMIC. Cutting a corner too close could take the whole front off... Ideally I would want it V mounted in some fashion but there's no room for that.

    I'll get pictures of stuff like the skidplate mounting later this week.
     
  13. jtmcinder

    jtmcinder DSM Wiseman

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    Iowa City, Iowa
    I have a skidplate and a front-mount on the Evo. No problems. The solution, IMO, is allowing some air to go straight to the radiator, instead of all of it going through the IC, and having a good oil-cooler, as well. The other key is a well-designed skidplate that breathes, especially at the exit. TRF in Michigan is the best for this, but I doubt he has a design for 1Gs. The only other option I see is a well-designed inner fender liner with downward-angled slots so that the mud can't get through it and yet it still breathes. Must have a guard underneath, as well; nothing heavy; just something to keep the crap off the cooler. In any event, good luck. 1Gs and Scooby SVXs are my favorite coupe-style rally cars.

    As to nose-dives on jumps ... don't be a (Ken) Blockhead ... don't lift and you'll be fine.
     
  14. Lofty

    Lofty Moderator

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    As for the intercooler issue. Why not go with a topmount. They have been done on 1gs.

    I can't really realistically see a vmount work for a rally car 1g.



    393809252_bbbb389de6.png

    Consider an RVR topmount?

    Everyone is going to bring up the heat soaking issue but rally cars are always moving, I'm almost sure with the proper scoop it will be just fine, given you get the fluid dynamics of the air above the hood and below it correct.
     
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  15. jtmcinder

    jtmcinder DSM Wiseman

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    The first thing that the STi folks do is switch to a front-mount.

    Rally cars are always moving, but not always going straight ahead. Need a big mouth on the intake to the IC, not some scoop in a low-pressure area.
     
  16. Lofty

    Lofty Moderator

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    I guess V mount would be the best option then, but a lot of engineering work into it.



    Hey, What do you know!


    Oh yeah *shifty eyes*


    Good call Toby.
     
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  17. PotatoFlakeSTi

    PotatoFlakeSTi Proven Member

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    Wall, New Jersey
    I don't much like the topmount idea.
    I'm going to try and mock up the Front Mount... IF it will fit between the skidplate support beams, I guess it'll be protected from impact behind them.

    I'll snap up some pictures tonight of the supports, IC, RX8 oil-filter, banged up o2, missing motormount later tonight.

    Oiii.. Have to pick up a new airfilter as well, old K&N was laying on the BOV and rubbed a 1/16" hole open... Don't want too much sand going through the turbo.
     
  18. jtmcinder

    jtmcinder DSM Wiseman

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    One of the reasons that rally cars have relatively large and flat noses (see almost any Scooby or Evo) is because they need a lot of clear air for cooling. With a 1G DSM (or my other fave, the Scooby SVX), you have a lot less to work with. Besides doing things like switching to E85 so less IC is needed, you've got to use every bit of the air that's available. So an oil-cooler definitely goes in one front corner (with correctly-designed louvers in the wheel-well). The question is whether you stay with a side-mount in the other corner or switch to a front-mount. Me, I'd go with a FMIC and make sure that the fins were a bit less dense than usual so that some of the coolness still reaches the radiator. It's a balancing act. You need the car to stay cooled, but you don't want to "waste" any additional cooling on the engine that could be used for the IC.

    Preventing damage to the IC should be low on the list of priorities. As long as it's behind or on top of the lower front beam, it won't be damaged unless or until you have an off that will end the day anyway. Some people even think of the IC as part of the impact-absorbing system. Better to be alive with no IC than dead with a car that your relatives have to part out.
     
  19. PotatoFlakeSTi

    PotatoFlakeSTi Proven Member

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    Wall, New Jersey
    Got some pictures, albeit not great ones as I was trying to rush. Storage unit changed security codes on me, so I'll have to contact them tomorrow so I can get the FMIC and piping.

    First up is a few pictures of the "subframe extension" for the skidplate;
    hhDUI.jpg
    kdeAn.jpg

    Not enough room to get a front shot, but that should give a pretty good indicator.

    Next up is the completely missing front motor mount and damaged UEGO o2 sensor;
    AHwcd.jpg
    6YFGM.jpg

    Vented fender liner; Installing a panel or plate underneath as suggested will be done, there is a tract for directing air to the IC, along with a misting sprayer hooked from the rear sprayer & reservoir.
    3mGrr.jpg

    RX-8 Oil filter helps a whole lot with clearance, and ease of replacement. The factory sized filter was impacting the subframe, and was very hard to re-install. The custom downpipe didn't make things much easier. (Lets not be brand whores, oil-pressure is more stable since this filter was installed)
    1Yol4.jpg
    lwygH.jpg

    Also on the list of -need to do- is this fuel line.
    k2B0s.jpg
     
  20. jtmcinder

    jtmcinder DSM Wiseman

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    No skid-plate or did you remove it for the pics?
     
  21. PotatoFlakeSTi

    PotatoFlakeSTi Proven Member

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    Wall, New Jersey
    1st and 2nd picture have the skidplate laying on the floor. The part seen covers til about the passenger compartment, it's 1/8" aluminum, with 2 additional 3/16" plates directly under the engine.

    From there a 1/8" plate runs to the rear axles, with 5 rows of 3 holes for venting.

    Covering the rear axles and rear driveline components are 1/8" polyurethane sheets.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
  22. jtmcinder

    jtmcinder DSM Wiseman

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    Why did I even ask.... I'm an idiot sometimes. Thanks.

    I went with 3/16 aluminum for my plate. It seemed a good balance between weight and strength.
     
  23. Dhan

    Dhan Supporting Member

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    It's looking good man!

    Give me a shout if you need an extra hand :thumb:
     
    My DSM:
    1990 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo (sold)

    14b   manual
    1991 Eagle Talon TSi

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  24. Piranhaman33

    Piranhaman33 Supporting VIP

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    Palmdale, California
    Nice car man!! I'd love to rally a 1g, specially through the Mojave Desert. I'm also loving the vid.
     
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  25. PotatoFlakeSTi

    PotatoFlakeSTi Proven Member

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    Joined Oct 2, 2011
    Wall, New Jersey
    Good thing I bought the prothane motor-mount inserts;
    Drivers side mount;
    pr2GQ.jpg
    LjGGF.jpg

    Passenger side mount;
    VDEUv.jpg
    O2787.jpg

    Prothane polyurethane inserts installed;
    hSTHu.jpg
    M16RV.jpg


    Also for funsies, car jacked up... wheels are still touching the ground;
    NzjkS.jpg


    Oh and here's my "front motor mount".

    I'll assume the PO did this;
    CJNpa.jpg
     

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