As you can see in the attached log, my fuel trims are all messed up and the car idling in closed loop the a/f ratio ranges from the high 12's to low 16's. I've messed around with my global fuel (currently running low impedance RC 1200cc's, tried using the value of 1200 in injector calculator as well as 1006 (which is what the injectors are supposed to flow at 37 psi fuel pressure)), played with dead time and also the maf comp sliders to get my air flow per rev around .27 (I'm running a 2.3L). My a/f estimate never lines up with what it should in the max octane table (for example the estimate often shows 18:1 but when I track the data in the max octane map it shows it should be 14.7). Any advice as to what could be my problem/ tips would be greatly appreciated (I'm completely lost as to what could be going on here). Below is a little more info on the car/ info on the engine build.

1). No boost, vac, or exhaust leaks.

Boost leak tested to 40 psi with zero leaks, zero exhaust leaks

2). Verify mechanical timing.

Timing marks all lined up properly.

3). Verify base timing

Base timing set to 5 degrees with timing locked in ecmlink

4). Ignition system

New NGK wires, BPR7ES plugs gapped at .025

5). Motor health

168-172 psi each cylinder

6). Basic throttle body adjustments.

TPS adjusted to .63v, biss screw adjusted to read ~30 while logging

7). Compression ratio

8.8:1

8). Wiring and sensors

Wiring completely gone through and is 100% legit

9). No DTC/CEL codes

No codes

10). Electrical system

Seems to be legit

11). Base fuel pressure and injector values

Base fuel pressure set at 37psi with pump activated through ecmlink

12). Properly calibrated and configured wideband sensor

Innovate LM-2 wideband, sensor located in downpipe 18" down from turbo, gauge reads dead on with ecmlink log, near new sensor, setup the old school way (from what I read) programming the wideband with the same settings as a techedge wideband using the Techedge linear setup, switch over point set at 2.86v after reviewing logs

13). Type of fuel

91 octane premium

14). ECMlink how-to videos

I've watched every video I could find on Ecmlink's website and also every video I could find on youtube 5-10 times each. I've also spent hours and hours reading up on tuning ecmlink (although I wouldn't consider myself to be a very good reader)

Attached is a log of my 1992 Galant VR4 after trying to setup idle. The car has never ran correctly since I purchased it (the previous owner tried to tune the car himself and didn't know what he was doing). When I purchased the car it was running speed density but after many hours of reading many people said it was easier to tune/ correctly setup the ve table using a maf (I had a gm 3" maf siting around out of my tsi along with the plug and play cable (I also wired in the iat and omni 4 bar for logging purposes). The maf is located 12" pre turbo (with the intercooler piping setup I have I could not run it blow through).

Below is a quick list of the build:

4G63 Stroker, 2.3L, bored at 85.5 mm
Stock 100 mm crank (4G64)
MAHLE forged pistons 8.8:1 comp. #MIT130366I23
MANLEY H Beam rods, #14021-4
ACL race bearings (Main & Rod)
ARP Hardware (Head, Main and Rods)
Balance shaft delete
FP 2 cams
1200cc rc injectors
Garrett GT35r bb
Tial wastgate/ bov
Tubular top mount manifold
Magmus sheet metal intake manifold
S90 70mm tb
fmic with 2.5" piping
3" mandrel bent turbo back exhaust
Fuelab fpr
Ecmlink V3 full
Walbro 450 in tank pump

Sorry for the long post, if you made it this far though and have any advice I would really appreciate it!

Never EVER under any circumstance try to setup a car on a MAF, that is the biggest lie/ wives tale ever. That is a waste of time and way harder to tune than a simple SD setup. SO throw the MAF in the trash where it belongs, you own a SD system that is the whole point of getting V3. If everything is correct and you throw ANY size injector and scaled the global and deadtime close a car should start regardless of compression, turbo, cam etc.

Start with changing the base MAF type to Speed Density under the maf comp tab, I suspect this to be the biggest issue.

Next get a real front O2 sensor, simulating it sucks.

Wire in a real wideband.

Read this :

http://www.ecmtuning.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52350

ist dwa, thank you for the help. I hate MAF setups as much as the next person, the only reason I decided to try to go this route is I was told by many people it is the easiest way to help create a decent ve table to run sd (but you are making me think I'm going in the wrong direction). I actually have a 2nd Galant vr4, far more built than this one which is also running sd but also needs to be tuned (I had a local guy who claimed to be a "street tuner" tune this car but once a real tuner looked over the tune he told me to straight up ditch the tune and start over asap). I know my cars are able to put down reasonable power as the white one I'm talking about in this post put down 505whp and my other grey vr4 put down 656whp on pump with a little meth but that was before I owned it but have the dyno sheet from that car.

What I don't understand about running SD is how to setup up a proper VE table without being on a dyno. I've read the 2 tuning books which have been recommended by pretty much everyone on these forums (I don't have them in front of me right now and cannot remember their titles) so I am familiar with how sd works, it is just they used a dyno in the books to setup the VE which makes sense but I don't know how to do it on the streets. As for the link you sent me I've read that so many times I cannot count, it is just not clicking in my head how to get this setup properly. I'm literally on the verge right now of giving up on these cars, parting them out and going with a car already fully built/ tuned as I'm having such a hard time finding anyone willing to tune my cars (if I really cannot figure this out).

I think I have a front o2 sitting around here, I'll see if I can find someone with a tig to weld on a 2nd bung so I don't have to simulate the front o2 any longer. As for my current wideband, what is the problem with an Innovate LM2? It is hard wired into the car (not using the exhaust sniffer adapter) and is known for being one of the more accurate "consumer grade" widebands out there without going with an actual professional sensor setup which can cost a small fortune.

Dude, you are trying to hard, the VE table from the factory isn't too far off again regardless of the setup. What does dyno tune vs street tune matter. WOT is WOT.

Let me simplify. THE VE table is just fuel adjustment, if you need more fuel increase the value, if you need to lean it out reduce the number. So lets say the car is idling at cell 9.2 load and 1000rpm on the SD table and the car is running say low 16s AFRs, all you would do is go to that cell and start to increase it until you see the AFRs drop down to the mid 14s AKA stoich.

You don't even need to tune the around town cruising because link will guesstimate for you which is highlighted in that guide how to do so.

As for WOT, it is the same thing, too lean, add values where it is lean and vice versa. I like to see my estimated boost and real boost match pretty much everywhere. If they don't match adjust the global up and down to move the AF curve up and down but just use the SD to smooth the curve itself to a line.

I can't help anymore than this. I agree, if you can't figure this out, these aren't the right cars for you and you should just buy a stock new 5.0.

And there is nothing wrong with your innovative WB.

1) You're in Washington so go to one the best DSM shops in the world and get it dyno-tuned: English Racing

2) Setting up a VE table for an advanced setup (i.e. big cams, turbo, intake mani) is really confusing and outside of my knowledge of tuning. I too have tried to look into this (although not extensively) and have found few answers. Most of the people who do know how, don't want to spend the time teaching a random guy on the web so they'll throw you a 1-2 sentence answer if you can even get a reply to this topic. Once again, you're best bet is to have someone competent tune the car. Contact Kenny Kline on Facebook because he can help you with a remote tune.

Tuning DSM link is like super easy. I just explained it, cams turbo, etc etc don't matter, all they do is improve VE, that just means your numbers will be higher than stock. For the 3rd time now, an OEM SD table is not too much different than a full blown setup table, I'd say all figures on the table are within about 10% of the OEM figures, that isn't much.

I don't know how to make this any easier. Where ever in the log it is lean increase those cells to richen it up, where ever it is rich decrease those cells to lean it out. I mean come on, it is literally the same thing as an AFC except of 7 choices you have 200 based on load. That guides is spot on telling you EXACTLY how to tune, like I said, if you can't understand that then you shouldn't be tuning.

Are you saying a car with GSC S3 cams, gt3582 turbo and JMF intake-mani will roughly have the same VE table as stock? It's not a rhetorical question. I'd like to know.

edit: Also, that link to A. Rupert's guide does not say anything about creating a ve table. It basically assumes you already have an accurate ve table. If you have an accurate ve table then yes, WOT is super easy.

My VE table has already been modified from stock, any clue how to get the stock VE table loaded back on my ecu? On the web page which has the downloadable maps all I see is min/ max octane/ timing tables.

Vegas smith said:

Are you saying a car with GSC S3 cams, gt3582 turbo and JMF intake-mani will roughly have the same VE table as stock? It's not a rhetorical question. I'd like to know.

edit: Also, that link to A. Rupert's guide does not say anything about creating a ve table. It basically assumes you already have an accurate ve table. If you have an accurate ve table then yes, WOT is super easy.

Click to expand...

Yes I am saying that all those parts only create a greater VE at high RPM WOT, but around town and idle it isn't that much different. The reason Dr Turbo's guide doesn't say anything about creating a SD table is because it is already just about correct. DSM link is not a stand alone, it is an OEM system, you don't have to build a table, you just adjust what is there.

The only thing you really have to kinda figure out is WOT above the 25.7 load point as the stock ECU was only maped for it 12ish psi, that is why you see the large difference in the table past that point as they had to themselves (ECM LINK) fabricate the table for boost levels that didn't exist. But if you look at the two you will notice that VE drops off on the stock table vs stays the same all the way to 10K in the built table.

Pictured below is the STOCK SD table compared with a 35r, 280 cam, short runner manifold, 2150cc injectors etc, etc table, not that different.

Also, I have attached a log of a stock SD 1g table, just pull the file up and save it in DSM link if you want to start over.

Thanks for the response. I'll edit my previous statement by saying that the VE table ALONG with new timing and afr tables is really confusing. Trying to do all 3 of those things is where noobs have the least information.

I have to agree that, to me, Speed Density is very easy to tune. I am throwing in my spare 1120's into my DD auto car tomorrow and I am letting my 20 yr old son give it a try to get her to start and to dial in her idle. He has helped and seen me do it so much that it is HIS turn to dabble in it and learn. He knows that if the WB says 16.1, to go to the VE table and add fuel to bring it down or in the case of a "fat" tune, pull fuel. V3 makes it pretty simple if you use the tools built in. Don't throw in the towel, take a bit of a chance and just start "playing", you can't goof it up and can always revert it back to what ever it was before, just take a picture of the table or copy it from a previous log. Easy.
Also, I simulate my NB with my LC2 and have it in 2 different cars with great success.

I agree, ditch the MAF. The stock SD table will point you in the right direction and should allow your dsm to start without any modification. If you're having trouble with idle, a trick I sometimes do is lock the ECU in open-loop and adjusting global fuel until your wideband hits stoich (14.7:1) and you see your o2 cycling properly.

For closed-loop (cruise) tuning, ECMLink essentially has an auto-tune feature already built in, which makes it super easy (sdveadjcomft)

Also, as Dave pointed out in the ecmlink forums - "Try increasing the O2FeedbackAdjRate value on the STFTAndO2Feedback direct access tables." (WBO2 sensor location)