Built head.. Built block.. Pte6165 (.63ar), 30-35 psi..

I'm gonna get the head milled, block decked and use a permatorque mls

Do I need l19s and o rings too?

I'm looking to get like 550hp. Or whatever that .63ar will max out at basically...

Lmk what you guys think..

I know o rings and l19s are good to be on the "safe side" but I'm asking if I'm gonna hit that point where I need them..

Thanks.

Search on here and I think you'll find a lot of guys run a composite HG instead of the MLS, they use the reg ARP's, no oring and push 30+ psi through with no issues.

2 years ago I switched out a MLS in my 6-bolt motor and had issues getting it fully sealed. My block was super super flat and my head was only out by about 0.002 but at the time I didn't release that the surface finish was super important too (the RA of the block surface). After reading about the MLS I found most guys run the comp gasket with 30+ psi without issue.

One of the main things with getting the HG sealed is the bolts. You MUST make sure they are seated fully in the block. Chase the threads with a thread chaser or an old head bolt with some "slits" cut in it to make it look like a tap. DO NOT use a tap as it will cut the thread....you just wanna clean the thread not cut into it. After chasing, flip the block over and spray brake cleaner in the holes and blast everything out. You'll be shocked with how much crap comes out.

Once cleaned put the ARP studs and tighten down the stud itself HAND tight only (as per ARP). Once the HG and head are on as well torque up the nuts (with lots of ARP moly lube on both sides of the washer, stud threads and nut threads) on the studs using the proper torque step (30-60-90 or whatever it is I don't remember the exact numbers) and sequence with. Once its all torqued down loosen them all off and re-torque again. The is a post somewhere out there that ARP says to do the torque then loosen 5 times. ARP says that this is necessary to seat the threads of the stud fully in the bottom of the block. It is a PITA but once its done its done and the studs are seated and you can swap heads or HG after as long as you don't pull the studs out.

TL;DR:
MLS are a pain and comp HG's have been proven to hold plenty of boost without issue. Seating the ARP's in cleaned out block threads to the proper torque with lots of lube is super important.

Yeah I've heard a lot of different things it seems everyone backs what they own and run..

Composite guys think mls is a waste of time, and won't seal anyway..
..and mls guys think composite guys are crazy for running simple composite..

..then you have the sce copper guys where half of them swear by them (like MAPerformance, and other ones that install them correctly as they say) and then half of them kick themselves for buying them in the first place..


But okay. I'm also installing a kiggly girdle with brand new main studs, should I clean those threads also the same way? And should I do that before or after they line hone the main bore?

You don't need L19s or a Kiggly girdle for a 550 HP build. I dunno why so many people through money at builds these days. The amount of people building there blocks to make power a stock block can take is crazy.

If your sub 500 whp, and sub 30 psi... you don't need a build.

550, I'd just upgrade the Main and Rod hardware on a 6 bolt, and if it was a 7 bolt, I'd consider some forged rods, ARP main, rod, and head hardware. Composite gasket. I'd also be looking at upgrading the springs and retainers to run a good cam vs a main girdle.

Composite and standard ARP's is all I run. Car trapped 141 last year, and will go faster this year I hope. If you were a 7bolt I could see the l19's due to the 11mm studs.

It's not going to stay at 550... Only reason my goal right now is 550 is because my turbo is a pte bb 6165, basically the older version of the 6266.. But it's only got a .63ar t3 exhaust housing. Im going to eventually get a BW or something, but not sure how much these manley h beam rods can take.. But I'll eventually want 700ish on a larger t4.. Just might as well get what I can get now, and when the time comes if all I have to do is throw a manifold and turbo at it and tune it and be good without having to rip everything out again... That's why I have fic 2150s and a walbro 450 and 8an Teflon feed 6an tef return and kiggly valve springs etc it's all stuff that might be overkill now but I won't have to redo a million things later on..

But if I have to add l19s later on obviously that's no huge deal. I'm shooting for around 35psi on this turbo so whatever it hits at around there..

There's guys out there hitting your end goal on stock bolts and composite gasket. Not many, but is does happen. Run what ya got keep the timing reasonable and run it.

I ran hx40 and 6466 T4 divided 1.15AR on 38psi each on standard arps just fine. Felpro permatorque HG

I like how your doing it,
Overkill is better, if you have the moneh get the L19's and not worry about it ever. I'm switching to L19 myself, even though i didn't have issues with standard.

bastarddsm said:

There's guys out there hitting your end goal on stock bolts and composite gasket. Not many, but is does happen. Run what ya got keep the timing reasonable and run it.

Click to expand...

OSTAR. Wonder what they're up to these days....

Archer Fabrications said:

I ran hx40 and 6466 T4 divided 1.15AR on 38psi each on standard arps just fine. Felpro permatorque HG

I like how your doing it,
Overkill is better, if you have the moneh get the L19's and not worry about it ever. I'm switching to L19 myself, even though i didn't have issues with standard.

Click to expand...

Yeah a lot of people rave about MLS PrmTq HG, and also a lot of people say it's a waste of $$ because their composite holds up fine ... With head gaskets tho I would not wanna mess around and see how light of one I could get away with...

Something to consider, if your begining to tune, the composite gives you a nice warning that you did something wrong. The mls does not, untill you go really wrong, then it either breaks rods, or torches the head.

bastarddsm said:

Something to consider, if your begining to tune, the composite gives you a nice warning that you did something wrong. The mls does not, untill you go really wrong, then it either breaks rods, or torches the head.

Click to expand...

True, I'm paying for a solid tune though. Because of the e85 flex fuel/speed density route I'm going I don't want my first tuning experience To be that hah..

Stock HG and ARPs (or stock bolts if it is a 6 bolt) are fine for your goals.