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DSM in a dune buggy - Recommendations?

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MooglyMoog

Probationary Member
17
1
Mar 7, 2017
Madison Heights, Michigan
Hello, I'm new to the DSM scene but I've been lurking for a while.

I'm building a dune buggy and I have a target horse power of 330-350.

The exhaust and turbo setup is likely to be custom due to the nature of the project.

Anyways, My question is what year/ car should I look for my engine from? I'm not looking for the highest performance so the 2g heads, other stuff probably won't be necessary?

I was thinking getting any 1g FWD and building from there. The engine will be over the rear axle so that should make it easier to work with.

I've rebuilt plenty of engines before but this will be my first swap of an engine into a different platform. Is there anything I should look out for? would getting a turbo engine and building it from that be better?
 
depends on how in depth of a rebuild you want to do. if you find a nice GST motor from a 90 through early 92 that ran good. just toss a trubo and custom exhaust on and run it.

i have a spare 7 bolt that i have thought long and hard about building into a LOCOST (lotus 7 clone) and have done lots of napkin and whiteboard designs.

it would be an amazing amount of power for a dune buggy or LOCOST as they are very light weight. and it is not an expensive platform to make good power. im not sure why there is not a ton of these around on this platform already. Just has the 'street racer' vibe, or everyone looks at the less powerful 420a when they look at these cars, i dunno. it is probably just a matter of what you can find the easiest, (4G63 based) to determine where you start though.
 
depends on how in depth of a rebuild you want to do. if you find a nice GST motor from a 90 through early 92 that ran good. just toss a trubo and custom exhaust on and run it.

i have a spare 7 bolt that i have thought long and hard about building into a LOCOST (lotus 7 clone) and have done lots of napkin and whiteboard designs.

it would be an amazing amount of power for a dune buggy or LOCOST as they are very light weight. and it is not an expensive platform to make good power. im not sure why there is not a ton of these around on this platform already. Just has the 'street racer' vibe, or everyone looks at the less powerful 420a when they look at these cars, i dunno. it is probably just a matter of what you can find the easiest, (4G63 based) to determine where you start though.
I'm actually pretty surprised as well that theseems engines aren't more common place.

350hp is plenty for such a small platform like you said. I was thinking of getting a smaller turbo so it will give me a more even power output.

Will a stock turbo car ecu work for my application or will I need a tunable ecu for 350hp?

I will be on the lookout for an engine here in Michigan. Maybe a person here will have one. Michigan has rusty cars. Hopefully I will be able to find a semi rust free one. =)
 
a 14b would probably not get you to exactly 350 but is what i would run. it would spool well and still have a good amount of power. if you wanted a little more with still good spool go to a small 16g. either of these will bolt on to the stock exhaust manifold and do not require much extra work to mount. (if you end up with a 1st gen motor the 14b might even come with it.)

the 350hp range is about the limit of what you can convince the stock ECU untuned to put up with easily. a tuning solution is not required but can make getting to the goal a lot easier. you could wire in a stock 98-99 style ECU and run it stock and then if you decide you do want to tune those ECU's are flashable and fairly easy to tune yourself.

there are some things to watch out for, 95-96 motors have a weird CAS setup, any 7 bolt has a debatabley higher likely hood of crankwalk (use a softer clutch pressure plate, disable clutch to start switch.) theres also differences inn the 1g vs 2g head, and some other miner things. but really find a motor and then make adjustments from there. instead of trying to plan what you want to start with and having a hard time finding the initial purchase.
 
My exact HP goal is 333 so maybe I'll hit that.

Which turbo is more reliable or has better thermal management, 14b or small 16g?

If I had to flash the ECU would I still have OBD support for the sensors and such? a 90 engine would be obd0-obd1 and the later ECU would be OBD2.

Sounds like I'll just get the first good engine I come across and build from there.
I plan to do a full tear-down and rebuild. I haven't decided how "forged" or "built" I will make it as the stock internals seem to take this HP pretty easily. Ill probably get new rings, hone the cylinders, check the bearings for wear (replace with better if worn), replace all the rubber, then stuff necessary for a turbo like head studs, new head gasket, and other stuff.

Thanks for the tips. I look forward to the build. Ill definitely have a thread for it when I get around to it.
 
Hello, I'm new to the DSM scene but I've been lurking for a while.

Welcome to the forums! I've seen a few 4g63 sandrails online over the years. At least two I've seen on here and I'm pretty sure one of them was from Michigan. You could probably get away with a pretty stock setup that has the quick spooling 14b turbo (or the T-25 turbo which came on the 2g cars). The turbo motor makes about 200hp and similar torque which would be a great starting point for a 1,500 sand rail.

Regardless, it's gonna be an awesome ride once it's complete. What material are you using to construct the frame?

EDIT: Here are the two I was thinking of....

BoostforBreakfast's orange sand rail and dave99gst's yellow sand rail.
 
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Welcome to the forums! I've seen a few 4g63 sandrails online over the years. At least two I've seen on here and I'm pretty sure one of them was from Michigan. You could probably get away with a pretty stock setup that has the quick spooling 14b turbo (or the T-25 turbo which came on the 2g cars). The turbo motor makes about 200hp and similar torque which would be a great starting point for a 1,500 sand rail.

Regardless, it's gonna be an awesome ride once it's complete. What material are you using to construct the frame?

EDIT: Here are the two I was thinking of....

BoostforBreakfast's orange sand rail and dave99gst's yellow sand rail.

I know 200HP would be plenty but part of this project will be for the tune experience and building an engine away from its stock form.

I will be using ~1-2" chromoly tube as the person who trained me to weld, one of the finest welders I've ever known, swears by it and uses it for most everything.

Thank you for the links. I will definitely look into them.
Hopefully my dune buggy will be speedy and classy. =)
 
Keep us updated! Ever since I saw Mel Gibson in Road Warrior back in the 90s, I loved the idea of sand rails and dune buggies. Good luck with the build!
 
Will I need to find a specific gearbox or will the stock be able to do fine with the power? Also, is there anything with the differential I should be thinking about?
 
Will I need to find a specific gearbox or will the stock be able to do fine with the power? Also, is there anything with the differential I should be thinking about?

its cool to see a another post on a 4G63 dune buggy build. I'm about to finish up my buggy motor swap as well. You might want to rethink your choice of trans. I've seen FWD to RWD buggy conversions. they are very heavy, no gear ratio changes available, limited wheel travel etc. I'm running a VW 091 Bus tranny with a Kennedy adaptor plate and clutch.
 
Hm. The stock transmission would be able to take the torque though right? Like reliably?
 
if budget is a big concern then yes a stock FWD tranny would be fine. i would have some custom axles assembled by one of those sand rail shops though.

you can maintain OBD2 compliance very easily even if you need to reflash and you are using a 98-99 ECU. you can even use the 98-99 ECU on the earlier engines if that is what you come up with. think of these as LEGOs for the most part, nearly all pieces can be assembled in some fashion to get to the goal you want.

the small 16g should do 333hp and have some extra room. a 14b would be at the top of its range and if you start modding the 14b with new housings and porting you are going to end up nearly cloning a small 16g anyways. Still, don't set your heart on something, see what is available easily and work out from there.
 
if budget is a big concern then yes a stock FWD tranny would be fine. i would have some custom axles assembled by one of those sand rail shops though.

you can maintain OBD2 compliance very easily even if you need to reflash and you are using a 98-99 ECU. you can even use the 98-99 ECU on the earlier engines if that is what you come up with. think of these as LEGOs for the most part, nearly all pieces can be assembled in some fashion to get to the goal you want.

the small 16g should do 333hp and have some extra room. a 14b would be at the top of its range and if you start modding the 14b with new housings and porting you are going to end up nearly cloning a small 16g anyways. Still, don't set your heart on something, see what is available easily and work out from there.

I am planning to do custom axles.

My budget has enough room for a different trans if it is a necessary component.

Thanks for the recommendations. I used to work on hondas so the whole lego thing make a lot of sense =). If i used a 98/99 ECU, would i need a similar year harness for all the sensors or is there not a big difference?

I'm still looking for something that's not super rusty haha. I don't want to be replacing all the hardware on this engine when I tear it down.
 
.... If i used a 98/99 ECU, would i need a similar year harness for all the sensors or is there not a big difference?

I'm still looking for something that's not super rusty haha. I don't want to be replacing all the hardware on this engine when I tear it down.

it would be easier to start with a 98-99 harness but not really necessary. honestly with the amount of stuff you will be removing from the harness i think ii would find just the pigtails that plug into the ECU and wire up just what i needed. there are TONS of diagrams and pin-outs on this forum so a weekend and a case of beer is all you would need to build your harness out.

as for the rust, these shells are known for being rust collectors and you only need the drive stuff so do not let a rusty shell put you off. besides i would hate to see you junk a good condition DSM just to pull out stuff for a sand rail. this platform is getting harder and harder to find parts for.
 
it would be easier to start with a 98-99 harness but not really necessary. honestly with the amount of stuff you will be removing from the harness i think ii would find just the pigtails that plug into the ECU and wire up just what i needed. there are TONS of diagrams and pin-outs on this forum so a weekend and a case of beer is all you would need to build your harness out.

as for the rust, these shells are known for being rust collectors and you only need the drive stuff so do not let a rusty shell put you off. besides i would hate to see you junk a good condition DSM just to pull out stuff for a sand rail. this platform is getting harder and harder to find parts for.

That's a good point. If I do find a nice car I would probably give the shell to someone here in Michigan who wants it.
 
Hm. The stock transmission would be able to take the torque though right? Like reliably?

Nope the tranny can handle quite a bit. It's the wheel travel that you will be limited to only about 4 or 5 inches and I don't think the axels would be the problem it's the CV's. We all use Porsche 930 or 934 CV's that are heat treated etc but I'm sure areuch bigger than the DSM stuff.
 
I am planning to do custom axles.

My budget has enough room for a different trans if it is a necessary component.

Thanks for the recommendations. I used to work on hondas so the whole lego thing make a lot of sense =). If i used a 98/99 ECU, would i need a similar year harness for all the sensors or is there not a big difference?

I'm still looking for something that's not super rusty haha. I don't want to be replacing all the hardware on this engine when I tear it down.

As I said earlier if you have the budget for a transaxle I would suggest it. This will make for a better handling and riding car. Aprx. Cost for tranny and axles could run $1500 to 6K plus depending on hp ratings. The adaptor plate and clutch is about $500
 
Would be fun to stick a 4g63 motor in a dune buggy I think you should use 6 bolt doe, but if your looking for only 350 hp I think 7 bolt would be save to use
 
If ya need any help from me hit me up on facebook !
https://www.facebook.com/Dave99gst

here is I think the best build thread of mine.

http://projectzerog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1227&sid=23e6e6933f6e977c1812060827b05de4

If you think you want to run a VW bus trans let me know.. I have a already machined flywheel for a 6bolt that im pretty sure thats what it goes to I should sell ya.

I got more SMILES per Gallon in the sandrail then anything ive ever drove.
Nice! Just added you. Is that yellow car your dune buggy or a locost?

If ya need any help from me hit me up on facebook !
https://www.facebook.com/Dave99gst

here is I think the best build thread of mine.

http://projectzerog.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1227&sid=23e6e6933f6e977c1812060827b05de4

If you think you want to run a VW bus trans let me know.. I have a already machined flywheel for a 6bolt that im pretty sure thats what it goes to I should sell ya.

I got more SMILES per Gallon in the sandrail then anything ive ever drove.
Just read the build page! Dude. That's incredible work. I'm hoping mine will look half as good.

Just read the build page! Dude. That's incredible work. I'm hoping mine will look half as good.
Also, how much for that vw trans? :)
 
Just read the build page! Dude. That's incredible work. I'm hoping mine will look half as good.
Ty :) that isn't quite how it all ended up but for the most part it is.
As for the flywheel ? Idk $50 bucks ? I'd want you to research it to make sure it's what you want first tho !
 
Yeah. I think I'm going to have mine mounted the same as in the car but in the back. =)
 
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