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Tranny mentor needed....

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Justified Expense

Proven Member
51
23
Jan 18, 2017
Port Dposit, Maryland
So.....I have a trashed tranny and bought another used one...so now I have 2 F5M33s. I cracked the case on the one I bought and it looks solid but I would like to attempt a rebuild...never done it before....I lust to learn. Poured over the past threads on rebuilds and book marked a lot of info. I understand the concepts of preload and how to measure. I have all the tools except for one.......experience. I am going to continue to run this thread in hopes that a mentor will guide me threw the build. Yes I will have a lot of stupid questions but thus is the hallmark of a good student. Any help with this will be greatly appreciated.

I am getting ready to purchase a Quaife LSD and need to order a rebuild kit. My first question is about which kit to buy. The sync gears in the blown tranny look about brand new and I would like to use them in the one I am rebuilding to save a little money....then I would only have to order a bearing and seal kit. Upon inspection there is no evidence that any broken metal affected these gears.....Can I do this???? Please see pics for detail.
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Yes I have the service manual and will be following it....I was hoping for a little online experience to supplement the build
 
I did my first one with just a service manual. If you're mixing and matching years that can sometimes be a problem. Know what you have and double check part numbers in ASA. you'll find supercession notes etc in there. I'd say 99% of what you need is in the fsm if you already know how to use a press. I have an assortment of old bearing races I use as press tools.
 
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OK...we will give it a try. I found a rebuild kit with the sync gears at a reasonable price....ordered them and the Quaife today....we will see how it goes. I will still post so if anyone notices something they can speak up.
 
OK...we will give it a try. I found a rebuild kit with the sync gears at a reasonable price....ordered them and the Quaife today....we will see how it goes. I will still post so if anyone notices something they can speak up.
Are both trans identical? Do not assume that since both are f5m33 that they are. What's the rest of the code?
 
Yes...both tranny codes are identical....I guess maybe I lucked out on that one....I will detail my work with pics....I have a 20 ton press and have rebuilt many motorcycle transmissions in my day but this one is a bit different that it has the sync gears in it and require preload. I just built myself a 2000sf restore garage with about every tool one could need so I believe I have the ability and the tools but it has been over 20 years since I wrenched on bikes. I am hoping the parts will show next week. Having the trashed tranny as a go to guide should be helpful.
 
1) One thing I found out the hard way: The FSM "Reassembly Service Points" >H< Spacers Selection has an error (at least in my 1999 manual). For F5M33 it says "Input Shaft end play" when it should say "Input Shaft preload". FWD has tapered bearings and so needs preload (the AWD has ball bearings and so uses end play). Twicks69 (professional tranny builder) says use .007-.010" preload on the FWD input shaft.

2) Use .062" rosin core solder for preload measurements.

3) Put in 2 gears at once (5th and 1st) to hold gears while tightening/loosening 36mm nuts. DON'T use a rag or penny!

4) Extremely complete rebuild article with pics on every step: http://web.archive.org/web/20100627174759/http://www.twingles.com/ideck/rebuild3/dretranny.htm.
 
1) One thing I found out the hard way: The FSM "Reassembly Service Points" >H< Spacers Selection has an error (at least in my 1999 manual). For F5M33 it says "Input Shaft end play" when it should say "Input Shaft preload". FWD has tapered bearings and so needs preload (the AWD has ball bearings and so uses end play). Twicks69 (professional tranny builder) says use .007-.010" preload on the FWD input shaft.

2) Use .062" rosin core solder for preload measurements.

3) Put in 2 gears at once (5th and 1st) to hold gears while tightening/loosening 36mm nuts. DON'T use a rag or penny!

4) Extremely complete rebuild article with pics on every step: http://web.archive.org/web/20100627174759/http://www.twingles.com/ideck/rebuild3/dretranny.htm.
Ooh I forgot about that preload error. I found it also a long time ago. I want to say there is a tsb on that. I have the manual trans rebuild book and I have handwritten notes that I made in it over the years. Op if you have that kind of facility and knowledge at your disposal and you have done what you described I doubt this transmission give you any problem at all. If you have the ability I took a scrap clutch disc and welded the center part of it onto a socket and use that to tighten the large nuts on the end essentially I made my own special tool. You can buy this part but I chose to make it and I found it the most effective way to tighten those nuts rather than some of the other methods that have been described although the locking into gears is also effective and I agree I wouldn't use the rag or penny method. I will offer this tip also. the manual describes prying off the intermediate gear on the end case. I have chipped gears this way. You'll notice there's a small collar on that gear. I used a small bearing separator to get underneath that collar and then used a 2 jaw puller on the separator to remove the gear
 
Great!!!! Now that is the type of guidance I am talking about. I can't wait for the parts to show and start posting....thank you very much.
 
which copy of the factory manual do you have?
Here is what I have available when I take apart a trans.
Input shaft hold tool (custom made as described above)
Punches
2 and 3 jaw puller
small bearing separator to remove intermediate gear (not always necessary)
Large bearing separator used on the press (optional). Other press tools will work but this has helped get into small spaces
Various misc press tools, old bearing races, pieces of pipe or block etc. If you own a press you already know this stuff. It's not rocket science
Lisle lock ring (not snap ring) pliers- edit 10-28-21....these suck and bend and I have since replaced them with britton tools. Proto is the same.
rubber mallet to knock cases apart
20 or so washers/spacers to bolt bearing plate back on but leave end case off.
Modified small slide hammer to remove blind bearing races.
I like to double check bearing clearances with no spacers in with a dial indicator and you can do this IF you bolt the bearing plate back down.
FWD is a little different. I'm describing an AWD here. You can still bolt stuff down and check the space.
On the bearing races, there are several that are blind meaning there is no easy way to get underneath them to remove them. Not all of the races are press-fit. the ones with spacers underneath them appear to be press-fit but they aren't. If you spin them with your hand and move up or down you can insert or remove them very easily. There are a few others that have reliefs milled into the case so you can get underneath them easily. I don't always try and pull these out by hand but rather use some sort of lever underneath them. Comically some of the levers I use are a pair of door hinge pins out of my house. I had them laying around and found they work well. When you are messing with the races you will figure out quickly which ones are press-fit and which ones aren't. I think the most difficult one to remove is the input shaft at the bellhousing as it's very small, blind, has no relief milled for you to get underneath it. This is the race that I use the slide hammer. I stacked up a series of washers and I ground one of the washers to an edge to be able to get underneath the race. The washers are stacked up like a pyramid to reinforce each other. I'm sure there are other ways to do this but this method has worked for me over the years. If you have another way or find another way please share
 
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OK...got the bearing and sync gear rebuild kit and decided to work on this thing for an hour. I punched threw the 2 lock pins on the forks and removed the fork/rail assembly out....after that the gear clusters and all else came out pretty easy. Cleaned up the case in the parts washer and started inspecting how I was going to pull the bearing races out.. I see the two notches in the case for each race 180 degrees apart to get a pull tool into but am having a little problem figuring out a tool. In the above post you mention a modified slide hammer but just can't envision this tool. Can someone post a pic of the tool they used or will I just have to figure out how to design a tool by altering the pullers I have.
 
I will miliman when I really have something to take a pic of. I was going to start when I began pulling the races....figured no one needed to see how to wash up the case in the parts washer,LOL
 
My puller has a threaded end. I stacked up washers like a pyramid and ground the biggest one to an edge to get underneath a race
 
Unless you welded all the washers together pauleyman I can't vision how you did this. I looked up transmission race pullers and did find some as is pictured below but a set of them that range from 7/8 inch to 2 inch runs $200....I am not paying that. I have a 2 jaw puller that I reversed the jaws and ground them down to a point that they will get under the race in the two points provided but now must figure a way to exert pressure from the inside out to keep them from slipping off the race as I pull....the same thing the thumb screw does in the pic below. I will get it, just have to revive some of those dead brain cells of mine. When I do I will start posting pics.

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After cracking the case I proceeded to pull the fork and rail assembly out. To do this I had to punch threw the 2 lock pins as shown in the pics. I was careful not to punch them all the way out. with a little wiggling the whole assembly came out in one piece.

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After that the gear clusters lifted right out and I was able to lay all the pats out on the bench.

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After washing the case up in the parts washer, I was able to get a good look at the bearing races...which had to be pulled and replaced. Out of the 4 there, 3 had a notch in the case under the race to put a tool and pull. In the pic of the race pulled below you can clearly see the notches 180 degrees from each other.

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My problem was finding the right tool to pull the races. I found one for sale but I was not going to pay the price they wanted....so I modified a 2 claw puller. In the pic below you can see where I had to grind the claw down so it would fit in the notches under the race.

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After that I had to cut a portion of the puller off so that when I set it up I had a good straight up pull.

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Using whatever I could, I made sure I had enough height between my steel bar and the race to pull it completely out of the housing.

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I was able to pull 3 of the races out smoothly without causing any damage to the case. The 4th race however, the one to the differential, only had one notch under the race thus my tool would not work. I flipper the case over, took the seal out, and was able to knock the race out with a punch easily. After a little cleanup I will put in the new races and move on to the gear clusters.

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Some of those races aren't pressed in. They may appear to be but they aren't. It will become apparent which ones are or aren't when you go to place them back in and they slide in easily. If memory serves each shaft one is pressed in in the other side isn't. This makes it easy to try multiple shims as necessary. Although you shouldn't need to measure but once.
 
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