86' Colt Vista AWD Clutch problems

VistaAWD · Dec 5, 2016

Hello DSM Tuners! Hopefully someone on here could help out with a problem were having.

We just picked up an 86' Colt Vista AWD and it's turning out to be quite a project. The guy we bought it from said that he put an 57,000 motor and trans from a donor. Said that there was some problems with 3rd gear but it came with another trans. Well after the transmission finally went out we paid a mechanic $500.00 to install it and $150 to open it up and make sure the transmission was good. Then he finished and said there's something wrong with the slave cylinder and that it won't shift.

We replaced the slave cylinder, bled the lines, adjusted the pedal adjuster, and it still wouldn't shift. We were able to tell that the slave cylinder was working as the clutch rod would move passed center (one thing i'm now wondering is if it had too much action on the clutch rod?)

Anyways we decided it had to be the clutch/throughout bearing so we ordered a new set and pulled the transmission.

After inspecting the transmission I noticed an excessive amount of oil or grimy grease in the bell housing. I imagine this would be caused by a leaking seal? I have a new input shaft seal but would the trans have to be broke open to replace it?

We also noticed that the clutch PP had grinded a grove into the bell housing case (On BOTH transmissions!)
Could this be due to the wrong clutch for the transmission as it is a Frankenstein?

Also the new clutch we ordered didn't fit. The clutch disk was just over 7 inches and the one installed was like 8.5''?
The parts store looked up an 87' dodge colt vista and found the larger clutch set for $20 bucks more but I'm hesitate to put it in if theres not enough room in the bell housing.

I'll also be getting the flywheel resurfaced this time around to eliminate that being a possible problem.
But how would I figure out the proper step height for that specific flywheel?
It sounds like .610 is standard for OEM flywheels but as I understand if its an evo flywheel it would be perfectly flat?
(Looks pretty damn flat to me - nothing to measure it now...but I'm sure the machine shop will tell me.)

These are some of the specs I know about this car...

86' Colt Vista AWD body
I was under the assumption that the previous owner dropped a turbo in it but I really don't even know.
The block is stamped G63B and has no vin that I'm able to find.
Transmission is stamped 8 20A. Would this be a km119 or km132?
Flywheel has 106 teeth.
Clutch disk is 8 7/16''

So I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on this...
Could it be the wrong clutch/flywheel combo?
Could I have extra shaved off the flywheel to allow room in the bellhousing?
Or Was the bellhousing just ground down due to there being too much action on the clutch rod?
I've read about shimming the pivot ball but it seems like that would have the opposite effect than wanted on this?

Thanks in advance for the help. Really looking forward to getting this car on the ground.

Vegas Smith · Dec 5, 2016

A common issue I see is improper flywheel step-height. You would never be able to tell by the naked eye alone. Send it to a reputable machine shop and have them measure. I don't know what specific flywheel you are using but what you said about the OEM is correct, I believe. Shimming only appears to work when you don't have enough movement in your cylinder rod but you can try that.

VistaAWD · Dec 6, 2016

Another thought hit me last night after I got a few drinks in me....

Before I pulled the transmission, I was able to shift through all the gears with the motor off. But when the motor was running I couldn't shift at all.

This makes me wonder if this could somehow be RPM related. Bad sycros or input shaft bearing?

How can I check the play on input shaft before I put the new clutch in?

Vegas Smith · Dec 6, 2016

I highly doubt it's either of those. If the synchros were bad you would most likely get grinding while attempting to go into to gear and even then you would eventually be able to shift. I would still guess it's flywheel warping.

VistaAWD · Dec 6, 2016

Brought the flywheel into a machine shop today. Apparently it has no step at all. Its completly flat.
From what I understand this is an evo flywheel which has no step.

Does this mean I need an evo clutch to match?

VistaAWD · Dec 7, 2016

So after cleaning up the bellhousing to put the new release bearing in before installation I notice some additional wear.

In addition to the groove that the pressure plate made on the bellhousing...there is an indentation on the shaft that the pilot bearing slides on.

My first thought was the pilot bearing/bushing must be bad effecting the clutch allignment.
But after looking into the pilot bearing it appears there isn't one on this car.
Not that its missing but that it never came with one.
Is this true?

What could cause the wear on the shaft that the release bearing slides on?

Should I be concerned about it?
Or should I just slap this clutch set in and hope for the best?

Vegas Smith · Dec 8, 2016

Pictures would be best. I'm not aware of any other bearing in that area besides the release bearing. The shaft could have been damaged on install, removal etc. I have no idea about the flywheel. All I can comment about is general 4g63/ 1G/2GDSM parts. A 1g/2g dsm has a stepped flywheel so you may have some weird parts in there then.

seattle smitty · Feb 21, 2017

I have a Colt Vista built in Aug, '86 but sold as an early '87 ('87 was the year they went to EFI, but my car had a "smart" (computer-controlled) Hitachi carburetor (which I replaced with a much better and simpler Weber 32/36 DGEV). These Gen 1 Colt Vistas were 4WD (two or four wheel drive through a driver-shifted transfer case) and not AWD (full-time all wheel drive) like the Gen 2 Vistas (from '89 on, I think). It has been several years since I overhauled all systems on my Vista, but I believe that this "5-speed" 4WD manual trans is called a KM163, and is a modification of the earlier "Twin Stick" Colt (pre-Vista) front-drive tranny. This was a 4-speed manual trans with a Low/High two-speed selector operated with the second shifter stick. If you happened to want to for some reason, you could split shifts all the way from FirstGear/LowRange up to 4thGear/HighRange, in other words, eight speeds forward!! Nobody bothered to do that; instead you just set the second stick for power (Low range) or economy (High range).

When the Colt Vista came along, the transfer case was added, and the Twin Stick was eliminated, replaced by a so-called fifth (overdrive) gear, which was really a vacuum shift canister that moved the 2-speed from Low to High automatically (via an electric solenoid activated when you shifted the stick into the 5th gear position. The transfer case was similarly shifted between 2WD and 4WD with a second vacuum shifter and solenoid. The vacuum shifters worked fine for a hundred thousand miles or so, but then often got leaky from crud and corrosion. Since these cars were used more by soccer moms than mechanically-skilled car guys, a failed vacuum shifter was seen by the owner as a "transmission problem," which meant selling the car, which was usually scrapped. But with care the vacuum cannisters and the solenoids that operate them can be cleaned out and re-sealed (if the diaphragms are intact and not rotten) and work just fine (a good thing because they are NLA). You could even convert your Vista to operate the Low/High 2-speed with a cable, like the old Twin Stick, and eliminate the vacuum shift, if you wanted to.

I don't know about two different size clutches, and am passing along what I know about this stuff in case it might help you identify whether you have the original factory tranny with your '86 Vista, or something else. The two vacuum shift cannisters are mounted on brackets above the bellhousing on the passenger side . . . . Apologies if you already know all this.

seattle smitty · Feb 22, 2017

Oops, remembered the wrong model number for this trans. Now I have the 1987 factory service manual (Volume One of three for this model year) in front of me:

The 5-speed manual trans WITH the 2WD/4WD transfer case (Not AWD) is called the KM182, the transfer case having come from the KM160 series.

The 5-speed manual front-wheel-drive-only (Not AWD) trans WITHOUT a transfer case is called the KM206.

The 3-speed automatic front-wheel-drive-0nly (Not AWD) trans surely has a model number, but I don't see it in this manual.

seattle smitty · Feb 22, 2017

(I would like to have posted this where more people would see it, but as a new member here, I'm not yet allowed)

For all Dodge and Plymouth Colt Vista owners: For a few years we had a website dedicated to our little "Swiss Army Knife of Cars," www.coltvista.com. Another member here, "mitsubishikid" and I laid down a lot of pages of tech info there, and the site was going pretty good. Unfortunately, the site host and originator, a good guy who liked Vistas but had not got one himself, ran into some really unlucky financial and job troubles, and bailed out of the website . . . without warning, and it all disappeared. There have been a few other sites dedicated to Mopars or Mitsus which gave Vista owners some space, but none were nearly as helpful as our specialist site.

If any Vista owner has the computer skills (I definitely do not) and interest and time, we might re-start the site. I made paper printouts of the tech articles I wrote for the old site, and could type them into a new one. I'm sure Mitsubishikid would add his very helpful knowledge of engine model parts-swapping and hot-rodding. Of course there are fewer and fewer Colt Vistas on the roads, especially the Gen Ones like mine, and the junkyards don't keep them long before crushing them because they don't sell many parts. To build and maintain an orphan car like a Vista, a neat machine that nevertheless has no collector value, takes an owner with mechanical savvy and the ability to do some creative substitution, fabrication, and minor re-engineering. Guys like that don't mind the challenge, especially to drive a car that nobody else has, one that will be unique among the rows of the usual Cameros and Stangs at the local car shows. Mitsubishikid is working on a Gen Two Vista that will have four wheel disk brakes and a nearly 200hp turbo motor!! For my Gen One Vista, I plan to weld up a unique resonance-tunable exhaust header for a little more power and fuel efficiency. Some fun!!

So if any Vista enthusiast has the time and interest and ability to start a new dedicated site (and he should expect a small-but-required annual contribution from members to cover direct expences), let's talk about whether it's worth doing.

I had thought of asking about the possibility of having a dedicated Colt Vista sub-section on this site, but have found that at least half of our cars (the Gen Ones) do not qualify as "DSMs" . . .

Farmersteve92 · Aug 29, 2023

seattle smitty said:
(I would like to have posted this where more people would see it, but as a new member here, I'm not yet allowed)

For all Dodge and Plymouth Colt Vista owners: For a few years we had a website dedicated to our little "Swiss Army Knife of Cars," www.coltvista.com. Another member here, "mitsubishikid" and I laid down a lot of pages of tech info there, and the site was going pretty good. Unfortunately, the site host and originator, a good guy who liked Vistas but had not got one himself, ran into some really unlucky financial and job troubles, and bailed out of the website . . . without warning, and it all disappeared. There have been a few other sites dedicated to Mopars or Mitsus which gave Vista owners some space, but none were nearly as helpful as our specialist site.

If any Vista owner has the computer skills (I definitely do not) and interest and time, we might re-start the site. I made paper printouts of the tech articles I wrote for the old site, and could type them into a new one. I'm sure Mitsubishikid would add his very helpful knowledge of engine model parts-swapping and hot-rodding. Of course there are fewer and fewer Colt Vistas on the roads, especially the Gen Ones like mine, and the junkyards don't keep them long before crushing them because they don't sell many parts. To build and maintain an orphan car like a Vista, a neat machine that nevertheless has no collector value, takes an owner with mechanical savvy and the ability to do some creative substitution, fabrication, and minor re-engineering. Guys like that don't mind the challenge, especially to drive a car that nobody else has, one that will be unique among the rows of the usual Cameros and Stangs at the local car shows. Mitsubishikid is working on a Gen Two Vista that will have four wheel disk brakes and a nearly 200hp turbo motor!! For my Gen One Vista, I plan to weld up a unique resonance-tunable exhaust header for a little more power and fuel efficiency. Some fun!!

So if any Vista enthusiast has the time and interest and ability to start a new dedicated site (and he should expect a small-but-required annual contribution from members to cover direct expences), let's talk about whether it's worth doing.

I had thought of asking about the possibility of having a dedicated Colt Vista sub-section on this site, but have found that at least half of our cars (the Gen Ones) do not qualify as "DSMs" . . .

I have a lot of questions as I am a new owner to a 86’ Colt Vista 4x4. Any pages here to recommend about finding out how to add power? I love this car but am defeated by how slow it is and worry to strain the motor in hills in my area in every direction

Farmersteve92 · Nov 22, 2023

seattle smitty said:
I have a Colt Vista built in Aug, '86 but sold as an early '87 ('87 was the year they went to EFI, but my car had a "smart" (computer-controlled) Hitachi carburetor (which I replaced with a much better and simpler Weber 32/36 DGEV). These Gen 1 Colt Vistas were 4WD (two or four wheel drive through a driver-shifted transfer case) and not AWD (full-time all wheel drive) like the Gen 2 Vistas (from '89 on, I think). It has been several years since I overhauled all systems on my Vista, but I believe that this "5-speed" 4WD manual trans is called a KM163, and is a modification of the earlier "Twin Stick" Colt (pre-Vista) front-drive tranny. This was a 4-speed manual trans with a Low/High two-speed selector operated with the second shifter stick. If you happened to want to for some reason, you could split shifts all the way from FirstGear/LowRange up to 4thGear/HighRange, in other words, eight speeds forward!! Nobody bothered to do that; instead you just set the second stick for power (Low range) or economy (High range).

When the Colt Vista came along, the transfer case was added, and the Twin Stick was eliminated, replaced by a so-called fifth (overdrive) gear, which was really a vacuum shift canister that moved the 2-speed from Low to High automatically (via an electric solenoid activated when you shifted the stick into the 5th gear position. The transfer case was similarly shifted between 2WD and 4WD with a second vacuum shifter and solenoid. The vacuum shifters worked fine for a hundred thousand miles or so, but then often got leaky from crud and corrosion. Since these cars were used more by soccer moms than mechanically-skilled car guys, a failed vacuum shifter was seen by the owner as a "transmission problem," which meant selling the car, which was usually scrapped. But with care the vacuum cannisters and the solenoids that operate them can be cleaned out and re-sealed (if the diaphragms are intact and not rotten) and work just fine (a good thing because they are NLA). You could even convert your Vista to operate the Low/High 2-speed with a cable, like the old Twin Stick, and eliminate the vacuum shift, if you wanted to.

I don't know about two different size clutches, and am passing along what I know about this stuff in case it might help you identify whether you have the original factory tranny with your '86 Vista, or something else. The two vacuum shift cannisters are mounted on brackets above the bellhousing on the passenger side . . . . Apologies if you already know all this.

I have this problem with my 86’ Dodge Colt Vista , 4 x 4
It won’t shift into fifth gear, my diaphragm is intact and was cleaned and reattached. It leaked again I suppose.. I also broke my odometer cable I will be replacing soon hopefully if the part fits from Napa auto parts. I am at a loss and really want to fix my car after I replaced the transmission only two months ago for 3200$

petrosian · Nov 30, 2023

Not sure this will help, but the Wayback Machine has archives of a TON of old websites that we used to use that are no longer around. In this case, for coltvista.com, it can be found here:

Coltvista.com Wayback Snapshot

I found a LOT of DSM info from old sites that I thought were gone to the ether using Wayback, like the DSM ECU Primer, etc.

The Top DSM Community on the Web

86' Colt Vista AWD Clutch problems

VistaAWD

Vegas Smith

VistaAWD

Vegas Smith

VistaAWD

VistaAWD

Vegas Smith

seattle smitty

seattle smitty

seattle smitty

Farmersteve92

Farmersteve92

petrosian

Similar threads

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds