The Top DSM Community on the Web

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. Log in to remove most ads.

Please Support ExtremePSI
Please Support ExtremePSI

1G 1,000hp FULL engine build discussion..

This site may earn a commission from merchant
affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

90laserRSfwd

15+ Year Contributor
1,412
84
Mar 5, 2007
Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania
As the title states, looking for insight on building a 1000hp capable complete engine. We all have our opinions and thoughts, and I'd like to hear them. Ideally I'd like to see a hard parts list broken into 2 sections (short block and cylinder head). Along with any notes or specific's why you recommend said parts. While this may turn into a full "dream" build lists by many members, it's nice to see the options out there as far as ideas are concerned. My build is intended for street / track use. I'm not personally looking for a fully filled 2.4 block destroked to 2.1L that'll rev to the moon. While that is an option, it's not a streetable one. I'd like to see what others would HONESTLY use.

Short Block:

6 bolt block (.020 over)
ARP main studs
Kiggly main girdle
stock (uncut) crank
Manley turbo tuff rods (150mm)
Wiseco 1400HD pistons (8.5:1 compression, pump or e85, since this is intended for street and track use)
ACL "hx" series bearings
modified oil pick up tube by Dave Rudy
straight cut oil pump gears (all oem oil pump parts)
BSE
Fluidampr

Head:

1g head (bowl work and gasket matched)
Oil port mod's 1 & 2
Manley springs and titanium retainers
GSC s2's
3g lifters
Kiggly HLA
Felpro Permatorque MLS with ARP L19's
Magnus v5 cast intake manifold
Gates or HKS kevlar timing belt

Overall I do understand that Kiggly springs and retainers would be a better choice. I also could see the cams being a little more aggressive. The thing is, being a street driven capable engine, giving up all the bottom end for peak power isn't ideal. Making 1,000hp isn't set in stone, being able to operate the engine on both the street and at the track is the most important agenda. I also understand other things fuel system, trans, t case, etc. etc. are all other area's that need attention, but were just talking the engine itself, so keep that in mind.
 
The most important thing you can do is to have funds set aside for when things break. You can spend all the money you want on the best parts and things will still break.


So many people get discouraged when they dump a ton of cash into a car and something fails.

At the bare minimum you'll break transmissions and have to change headgaskets.
 
I was under the assumption already that valve springs and bearings would be a year (or over other year) thing based on run time. I know the gear boxes aren't going to last. I wasn't aware of any real hard part failures like pistons or rods going though. Are these engines known for losing head gaskets?
 
Kiggly HLA, Kiggly race beehives, some type of head or block orings to keep everything together. For 1,000whp, a half filled block would be a good idea. Recommend stronger head studs like the L19 or MAP H11 if they still make them.

I understand the spring choice, and the insurance o rings would bring, but assuming I'd run this motor (even it only made say 850whp) on the street with the block being half filled would cause over heating issues wouldn't it?

I'm not saying this a daily driver, but a fun weekend car, or something to take out here and there. I didn't know you could half fill a block and still run coolant threw it.. Filling the block helps the most at the deck (where the head mating surface is), so filling it up half way (bottom half) wouldn't be much of a help. I looked into things like piston coatings etc. as well. I know this motor isn't going to live forever, but I'd like it to be as reliable as can be while taking the abuse..

We all know dry sumps, dog boxes, race car only fuels (M1 methanol) etc etc is NOT a viable option on the street.. (not saying it can't be done, it's just those parts don't live long lives and or require constant attention). I understand I can't make a 1000hp and never pop the hood, but I don't see an issue with needing to spend every other weekend tearing the car 1/4 of the way apart... This is intended to be a higher powered street build with track use, not a race car with a license plate LOL
 
I'm well aware this is a $30,000 plus investment situation with constant money / attention needed to keep operational. I'm also not trying to come off as some cocky kid or someone that doesn't have a clue. I am seeking advice of those in the know (like donniekak and others), that are willing to point me in the right direction. I don't want a shop built car that lives in a trailer and is talked about by others as a "dyno queen" or "jack stand king". I just want a 1000hp CAPABLE car that I can drive when time allows, that will hang with litre bikes and other "fast" street cars. I have a couple friends that have (or have had) 600+whp EVO's and they drive just fine. They don't have ungodly large cams, gt45r turbo's, 5" exhaust out the hood, stripped interior / 10 point cages. They are street cars. I know you need the proper safety equipment to go 9's at the track, that wasn't where I was going with this. I just want a fun street car that will hold it's own in a circle of guys that have 600hp cars and R1's...
 
Wisecos are garbage. I would never put a set in one of my own engines. I still to this day don't know why people are so I'm the band wagon about them. I have had plenty of quality pistons in my hand side by side. Wiseco would not even be my top three.

Arias (custom in my case (no more expensive than off the shelf))
.230" all the way to .300" tool steel wrist pins
We have a motor making big power with turbo tuff rods. While fine I chose the Pauter rods for my own steel rod engine and they were perfect for over three years of abuse at 800hp.

If you choose aluminum solid beam GRP rods hands down.

We run regular old clevite or itm bearings with custom oil clearances. No need for some fancy bandwagon bearing that is not superior in any way. If you have bearing problems no matter who's name is on the box is not going to make a difference.

Don't be afraid of a machined crank. We machine every single one we use and have them ground specifically for each builds goals.

Stock mains or arp's. Either is fine. Kevin Jewer seems to have opened everyone's eyes as to what stock main bolts can take.

Head work, I am biased. Springs and retainers and run it. Of course there is potential there to be had. As much as we have to get into engines and as much as seriously racing your cars like we do cause them to break it is just not worth the time and the money for what I feel are minimal gains in port work.

This is not some ancient v8. As tightly wound as most aftermarket springs are you should honestly never have to replace them. I know I never have in 18 years. Kiggly is the preferred spring.

I prefer gsc stage 3's for an off the shelf cam. Worked great for me. Custom, sky is the limit.

Lifters, your call. I have run all three revisions of none work any better than the other. If you have piling issues you have other problems.

Kiggly hla- I will get stoned here. I honestly believe it is voodoo magic. Again, if you have oil issues, you have other problems. We run a modified oil pan and 8qts of oil in our engine. And have for 6 years. No piling issues at all up to 10,000rpm yet. When we bring out car out it is balls to the wall. High horsepower, rev limit hanging fwd car.

Any quality multi layer head gasket will meet your goals. We still run the regular old Mitsubishi evo 3 gasket.

Any cast intake gets my vote. All the short summer intakes do is change the shape of the curve. Cast intakes will give you trouble free service. Seen far more than I could count of failure a of sheet metal intakes.

Any timing belt will work. We have run the cheapest to the most expensive. If you have a timing belt fail, you either had a freak accident as to why it came apart or have other issues relating to its failure. Recently on the dyno someone had a repaired cam that had a cam gear bolt that had stripped out. the bolt backed out at 9000rpm while I was in the middle of a pull and the cam gear almost came all the way off. The motor jumped time and the belt only sustained minor damage. It did not come apart or tear. Just a few knicks and gouges.

We don't run any sort of orings and run wet blocks to 1000hp and do not have issues. Other probably do, we again keep things simple and know what limits we should and should not push.

My thought process for years has been keep it simple. These engine are like legos and are a very simple design. In all reality it does not take much to keep them together. The drivetrain however will always be a major problem for the Mitsubishi guys. The biggest thing is if you beat on it it is going to break. That much horsepower per cubic inch it is only a matter of time. We are selective what we use our car for and not showing off just to be cool saves a lot I heartache. A four digit 4g63 should not be taken out just because. It really is not as fun as it sounds.

I am extremely biased and hate the whole street car thing. Run where it is safe and you have a chance to survive. This street car bullshit scene and people wanting some kind of street cred is dumb. Take a four digit 4g63 anywhere where there is money and watch it be left in the dust. Build what you have and enjoy it. Just don't be ignorant as to what it is and what it isnt.
 
Last edited:
Stephen (iirc correctly that's your name, biglady112). I was hoping you'd chime in (and a few others I haven't heard from yet). First off, thank you for the reply. I will trying to give you some feed back based on your response.

I understand Wiseco (and they're quality issue, that is supposidly "fixed" with the new 2816 alloy), and I understand the pauter rod choice. I'm not a believer in an aluminum rod street engine.

Bearings and oil clearances: I also have a very (and I mean very) limited amount of knowledge with. Your not the first person who has said about using "standard" bearings (ITM, OEM, Clevite aluma glide, etc.) As far as clearances go my short block was spec'd out by a (I won't say their name here) shop employee who's had there hand in an EVO at one point was "the quickest EVO 8 in the USA". None the less, I'll share my setup. My main oil bearing clearance is .0034 to .0035" and my rod bearing oil clearances are also .0033 to .0035" I understand this is very lose. I think the FSM recommends .002" and .004 is the service limit. However, after speaking to some high HP builders, they all say stay 1/2 to 1 thousandths (.0005" to .001") lose. I respect their opinion. My piston to wall is .0045" (4 1/2 thousandths). Balancing was done on a CWT 3 plane balancer with a finishing measurement of less then .25 ounce inch

My cylinder head is pretty much as you stated. Bowl blending and gasket matched. Stock valves (5 angle valve job, balanced 47cc chambers, cleaned and mag'd, decked with a CBN cutter to a 12 R.A. finish. Nothing fancy. Springs and retainers are Manley #22125-16, off the shelf single spring with a titanium retainer. Nothing fancy with the head build.

I've seen way to many welds crack (F&F danger to manifold scene comes to mind here LOL) on SMIM's to run one of those. While I'm sure the stock intake will make 8xxwhp, it's not ideal or something I'm willing to skimp on. The magnus v5 is a very nice piece.

I completely agree about the safety / street thing. Like I said, I'm looking for a higher powered street car, not a race car with a license plate. I intend to enjoy the car as my time allows. I have a lot of friends that attend "street grudge nights" at local drag strips. Some call them no prep nights, others "run what you brung" nights. Call it whatever you will. I just don't wanna be the guy that oiled down the track or brought the knife to a gun fight...

Again thank you for posting, please feel free to correct any issues you see with my setup. As I am no pro, only looking for advice from those that have gone where I'm trying to get. I don't NEED a 1,000hp car. I want something that will be CAPABLE of 1000 and will live up to some abuse. Why do you say a 1,000 4g63 isn't as fun as it sounds? Just curious..

Also, you mentioned an 8 quart oil pan, what is your opinion on the moroso pan? If you've ever used it or have an opinion on it..
 
I have pushed a stock intake to over 800hp on three cars now. Of course the curves took a shit on the big end but, it made plenty of power.

I am setting up a heavy turbo tuff steel rod road race motor now. His clearances will be .0025" mains and .003" rods. The last motor I did was a high (10,000+) revving aluminum drag motor. His mains were a touch over .003" and rods were just under .0035". Just run the right oil and you won't have any issues running loose like that.

Our FWD land speed car had had single Manley for six years up to 10,pop and have not had issues with them.

Our thought process on building a 1,xxxhp car takes the fun out of it. Think all race car. Stiff, solid and as durable as possible. Not easy or fun to drive at all.

Moroso is a pain because of the shape. 2g's are really a pain with them. And still not enough capacity. Modifying a stocker allows the creativity to flow in shape and size.
 
Thank you.

The person that spec'd the engine recommend 15w50 oil (brad penn grade 1, ams oil dominator, or VR1 from Valvoline).

It's good to hear that the stock intake can flow enough to touch 8xx hp.

If your willing to share (publicly or privately) I'd love to see and hear about the oil pan mods. I'm still running a transverse setup (stock motor location) AWD 1g.. Space is tight with a 4" downpipe..
 
Nothing really to show. We run a fwd car so we extended the sump towards the area the transfer case would be on an awd car 3-4". Then just added some simple baffling and walls around the sump to try and keep the oil near the pickup. We run out exhaust out of the good so no limitations really.

For an awd car we just extended the sump down about 2" and added the same type of baffles and walls around the sump. His exhaust goes out the driver side so no limitations there really.
 
I choose manley turbo tuff 6bolt rods with 22mm wrist pins, and 625+rod bolts, still undecided for piston but what ever one i choose should have HD pins,but was leaning toward ross or wiseco 1400 HD. Just a good ol 2.0 for me lookin for some 9500 constant shifts so i dont think itll be a problem with the kiggley girdle and 625+ bolts. For the head, beehive springs (they are lighter) big cams, stock valve and adjustable cam gears for me. Keep it simple In for others opinions in this thread. I'm shooting for a bulletproof motor good for 1000, but realistically would be happy as a clam at 850 with the 6466 on e85

Tuning is everything

Ive had great luck with valvoline 20w50 vr1 conventional. I change it pretty often (750-1000miles) so synthetic hasnt really been on my mind.

In my opinion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with over building. This will be my first actual assembily also.

Oh also, make sure to habe the head ported, it's not cheap but 4 piston does some killer CNC port work for the evo head (probably similar ports here) and one of our dsmtuners vendors, @OstarMotorsport is a vendor for 4piston.

Hope my 2 cents helps a little
 
Last edited:
Ross, diamond, arias and venolia pistons I've heard and read good things about. As far as actual use, i went with CP on my last v8 build, and have been considering manley, ross and arias.

Rods, id go either manley TT's, pauter or carillo for steel rods. GRP for ally rods. HD wrist pins for sure.

Bearing clearances are really going to depend on your intended use and oil choice.

Mostly just be clean and double check everything on install. get a whiteboard, make a checklist and stick to it as you go.
 
22mm wrist pins is another band wagon fad. Buy the correct wrist pin and don't fool yourself into thinking that extra millimeter is going to solve your problems. By enlarging the pin you decrease the amount of material around the pin bosses on the pistons and small and of the rod. You would be surprised to learn the manufacturers don't do much to offset the missing material. At least not that I could tell holding them side by side. .230"-.300" high quality, high density steel pins are the answet. Not going to 22 or 23mm pins.

This is what I have and would run in my own engine in this order.

1. Arias
2. CP
3. JE

All custom. I am willing to change things and wait for the most robust and durable piston I can buy. Off the shelf does not interest me. Waiting 6-8 weeks for my own special blend is worth the wait.

Wiseco just found a little niche and it took off for them. Lighter is not always better when you are trying to make 7-12hp per cubic inch. They have thin skirts, short skirts, narrow skirts , minimal material under the crown of the piston, minimal material around the wrist pin bosses.

My last set of of pistons Arias made for me weighed 60g more than their off the shelf pistons. And were a mere 9.1:1 piston crown. And that weight does not include the king dingaling wrist pin I was using. Those pistons took an ass whooping like no other piston I have ever used and didn't even balk it it one bit. Rod bearings had a short shelf life with the heavy Pauter rods but, hea, when it takes less than an hour to have the engine on the stand it is not really an issue to have to hear into it.

850hp with the tiny 6466 is a big reach and likely not going to happen. Good luck though. And I have turned three cars all the way up with that turbo and didn't even come close on the dyno. All with the shitty 4g63. Maybe a Honda or a supra that actually flow worth a shit and are efficient.
 
I agree on the over building statement. When your talking about spending $5,000+ on a built motor, there isn't a logical reason to use parts that will merely survive at the level you intend to be at. I was always told by many engine builders: "The bottom end holds the power, the top end makes it". I would sleep better at night knowing my car is making 700whp but could easily make more without adding more parts. Like others have said, and known for years, the driveline is the problem, not the engine!
 
Ok, so I got the short block back from the machine shop. Starting to feel excited! LOL. I ended up with the following parts / specs for the short block:

Stock 6 bolt block (keeping oil squirters) and (uncut) crank
Manley Turbo Tuff I Beam rods
Wiseco 1400HD pistons (8.5:1)
Kiggly Main Girdle
ARP Main Studs
Fluidampr
ACL Bearings (hx series)
OEM BSE with spacer (replaces BS pulley)


PTW: .0045"
Bearing Clearances: .0033" to .0035" (on both rod and mains)
Piston Ring Gaps: .020" top / .023" 2nd
Mains are torqured to 60 lbs / ft with ARP moly lube
(Head studs are ARP L19's, torqued to 105 lbs / ft with ARP moly lube)

Oil filter housing is a 90 unit, ported. Oil is AMSOIL Dominator 15w-50, 6 quarts total

stock oil pan, straight cut oil pump gears, OEM front cover, all new dowels, gaskets, etc.

Feel free to chime in if you see any issues...
 
Pay strict attention to the oil squirter clearances. Non stock parts means not stock clearances. I would remove them as they are doing you no good. I do everything I can not to install them in any engine. I would rather have oil on my main bearings where it belongs than half ass squirting at the back of my pistons .
 
I dislike wiseco HD's mini skirt.

Oh also, make sure to habe the head ported, it's not cheap but 4 piston does some killer CNC port work for the evo head (probably similar ports here)

Hope my 2 cents helps a little

having cut a head apart to see what's inside, I'd never waist money on a port job. There's not enough material to shape the ports better without getting into the spring seat. The entrance angle sucks, and the spring seat is in the way of fixing it.
 
High horsepower awd is very fun on the street. Almost nothing can touch it. There is a 1000hp Evo on 1320 videos on YouTube that keep up with 1300hp vett. That said something about these 4g63's especially 6bolts heads that consistently in deep 7's on track. If your tune is on point with the right parts to handle it, I don't see why your motor can't last and have good bit of fun. One thing to make sure head gasket survives is to watch the cylinder loads. Cylinder loads is what kills your head gasket. Take it from JETT Racing who has been in 7's and 6's with their 4g63 season after season of track abuse. Secret to keeping the head gasket alive is here:
You must be logged in to view this image or video.
 
Pay strict attention to the oil squirter clearances. Non stock parts means not stock clearances. I would remove them as they are doing you no good. I do everything I can not to install them in any engine. I would rather have oil on my main bearings where it belongs than half ass squirting at the back of my pistons .

So I'd be better off blocking them off? I have EVO 8 squirters.. please enlighten me!
 
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Fuel Injector Clinic Innovation Products Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications MyMitsubishiStore.com RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing STM Tuned

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds

Back
Top