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2G How-to: CTS-V Big Brake Kit on 13" rotor for less than $600

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Proven Member
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Feb 18, 2016
SJ, Puerto_Rico
So I've been reading around and apparently nobody really has ever responded most of the questions regarding this conversion and what needs to be done throughout some of the threads I tried to use to make this happen. Either they didn't know or weren't kind enough to share once they have achieved it. I have also been getting a few questions regarding my setup so might as well as clarify a few points:

Many question why I decided to grind down the mounting tabs instead of adding a spacer. The 5mm spacer is an option but there are a few reasons I decided against it.
1. It pushes the entire rotor, wheel assembly outboard by 5mm. That would have made my 17x9 35mm offset wheels into a 30mm out font and changed my trackwidth in front only. I already have difficulty with wheel fitment into the wheel well. I didn't want any more.
2. A 5mm spacer is pretty big and usually wheels are setup as a hubcentric item (it centers to the hub outer lip) which relieves the load from the studs. With a spacer behind the rotor hat, that space for the wheel to rest upon would disappear which for somebody who will see occasional track use with this car is not the best scenario. I checked the thickness of the calipers and how they were designed/reinforced and based on my years of design experience I can say that the reduction of 5mm from the face of the calipers will not affect the structural integrity greatly.
3. This method provides more clearance to the wheels. We all know the struggle to fit BBK's on 17" wheels. This install moves the caliper 5mm inboard which helps provide more clearance to the wheel. If I didn't have that clearance I would probably still be fine but some people aren't as lucky.
4. "I ready somewhere/someday that a guy removed 10mm, why 5mm instead of what he did?" There is no need to remove 10mm. That is overkill and reduces the rigidity of the calipers. Reducing 5mm will center the caliper perfectly to the rotor. Measure twice, cut once...
5. Note that this is not a diss to anybody that has done it differently. I have my reasons to do it this way and wanted to keep it as economical as possible without cutting corners. I believe I have achieved this.

Also note that this is for the 2G DSM. It might be the same process for the 1G but I cannot confirm it.


Things you will need:
1. 2 CTS-V 4-pot front brake calipers 2004-07 = $300 approx
2. AC Delco 18K1971X Brake Caliper hardware kit = $20 approx
3. 2001-02 SVT Cobra 13" rotors = $38 each from an auto parts store
4. Brake pads = Here it's really dependent on preference. I chose Akebono's Street Performance, but you can pick whatever you want from either a Caddy or an Evo VIII-IX. $88 for Akebono's
5. Banjo SS Brake lines = Some DSM's have direct threaded lines, others have banjo bolts. If you have banjo you can actually reuse yours. Lines can be found for $60 online (fronts only). I suggest getting Evo VIII or IX lines as these are guaranteed to fit. You can also get Cadillac lines.
6. 67.1mm to 70.1mm hub centering rings (2 only). = $25
7. Brake fluid = $10
8. Qty 4 - M12x1.75 x 25mm bolts and locking washers. = $10
Total = $595. You can get better deals. Just as an example I got everything except for the lines (already had them) for $375 all brand spankin new. Shop around, use coupons whenever possible and you will get deals just like I did.

Part numbers and everything is in the attached images. Those PN's I guarantee will fit this setup. Anything else you're on your own.

Optional parts:
8. 2mm Ti Shims set of 4 = $180
9. Wheels... This should be a given but OEM wheels won't work. You need 17" wheels preferably on the 17x8 to 17x9 range. Wheels that fit, do your research. I can vouch for Kosei K6r's on 17x9 35mm as that is what I currently have.

How to mount these up:
1. You will need to grind 5mm from the mounting tabs. You have to grind perpendicular to the bolt hole. If you are unsure on how to do this or do not trust your skills, any competent machine shop can do it for less than $50. I chose the DIY route and using a dremel and lots of patience grounded it down. Measured with a micrometer during the process and got it well within acceptable tolerances. The final result of thickness should range as close to 70mm from opposite sides of the bolting tabs as possible. I got mine 70mm +/-0.130mm and it works perfectly. See attached picture.
2. The Hub centering rings will go before the rotor. Install the centering ring and then the rotor hat. Mark any excess protrusion of the rings and grind down with either a dremel, file or grinder. They should be as flush as possible to the outer face of the rotor hat.
3. Install the rotor and calipers as you would install any other brake assembly. Lube every contact part and bolt and install securely.
4. With a caliper, make sure the rotor outer and inner edge are at 14mm from the centerline of the calipers (where the two halves unite).
5. Bleed out the system.
6. Enjoy the braking power.

Now you will notice I mentioned optional parts. These calipers are made for a 32mm Cadillac rotor and the SVT Cobra rotors are 28mm. Adding 2mm Titanium shims on both sides will get you to the 32mm OEM range in terms of piston to rotor engagement length. The reduced thickness rotors work fine without the shims, but if you want to reduce brake pad kick-back (if you road race, autocross, etc) then this will get you there with the added bonus of more heat dissipation.

You can select other rotors out there and make this swap as cheap or expensive as you want but I am giving out realistic numbers on what to expect on account of cost.

Now let the bashing/commenting begin!
Cheers :thumb:
 

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There are many options for fixed calipers. I chose Nissan 300ZX Aluminum. Calipers (pistons) are sized based on the weight of the vehicle. CTSV is 3850lbs 54% front. Talon is about 700 lbs lighter. Will they work... yes. You are also increasing the rotor effective radius. Both of these facts will reduce your brake pedal effort and reduce your rear braking (unless similar changes made to rear). Will it work... yes. One might check on the m/c volume with zero thickness linings (plates only). I used Willwood 2pc rotors... ended up milling a few mms off a standard Willwood hat-height for correct offset. I'm not a fan of milling the caliper mounts; strength is not the only concern, vibration (stiffness) and fatigue are also responses. Caliper/knuckle interface stiffness is a contributor towards brake-moan. Will it work... yes. I saw a 1969 Corvair driving 80mph down the highway today... my initial response was they are CRAZY! but hey it works... and it passed all GM testing before production... Its just one little thing that nobody thought about that made Ralph Nader a household name. Suspension design elected Bush in 2000. Who ever guessed US politics would be decided due to a poor suspension design.

Anyone considering modifications to their brake system should keep in mind... chassis systems are critical: brakes, tires, suspension, & steering. If your engine fails at 80mph... it ruins your day. If a critical system fails at 80mph it might ruin more than your day.

I made an extra set of adaptors (300ZX) if anyone is interested. You would still need to fab pilot rings & get a set of calipers.
 
Quick correction on the thickness. Thanks to rival for the heads-up.

Also note that thickness could vary from one caliper to another due to the as-cast condition of the opposite face of the mounting surface. Some people might see 23mm prior to removing material and other might see 22mm,etc. The important factor here is to take 5mm of the mounting (machined) surface. Make sure both surfaces are colinear to each other (on the same plane). So if you measure one at 23mm and the other at say 24mm then make sure the first one measures 18mm when finished and the other 19mm. :

"You will need to grind 5mm from the mounting tabs. You have to grind perpendicular to the bolt hole. If you are unsure on how to do this or do not trust your skills, any competent machine shop can do it for less than $50. I chose the DIY route and using a dremel and lots of patience grounded it down. Measured with a micrometer during the process and got it well within acceptable tolerances. The final result of thickness should range as close to 17mm from opposite sides of the bolting tabs as possible. I got mine 17mm +/-0.130mm and it works perfectly. See attached picture."
 
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Status update: After a few months with the setup I couldn't be happier. I do recommend upgrading the rears as well to the Evo two piston setup, as the bias has drastically changed to the front but the stopping power is amazing!
 
Curious as I thought about getting the Strictly. CTSV setup for 800 plus.

I like the idea of saving $$ and also time. This may be worth both. I like the fact that you set yours up for much cheaper. What is different about your settup vs the one sold? I see ebay has alot of CTS calipers on auction. Which does interest me.
 
What is different about your setup vs the one sold?

The kit sold is a pretty good kit and there's nothing wrong with it. If you don't like sourcing parts nor the idea of machining the 5mm of the mounting points I'd say buy it. I just didn't like the price when those calipers are $150 a piece nor the spacer moving my wheel outboard looking mexi-flush.

There are couple of small differences:
1. The one sold uses a 5mm hub spacer to align the rotor. This one grinds 5mm from the caliper mounting points to achieve the same thing. I personally do not like the hub spacer as it moves the entire wheel outboard by 5mm and eliminates the oem hub centric ring from the equation when mounting wheels (they become lug centric = not great). For us who take our cars to the track, I don't like lug centric applications, it puts too much stress on the lugs during high load corners at the front wheels. It's ok for street use though as long as those nuts are always properly torqued.

This also helps if you use 17x9 wheels keeping the original offset. We all know they are a tight fit on these cars and 5mm is quite a difference.

2. The kit when I thought about getting it I noticed that for the $800+ you'd be buying Pro-stop rotors (or equivalents) and Posi-Quiet pads for that amount and would have to shed more $ for higher quality rotors (high carbon Centrics) and high performance brake pads (HPS or equivalent). They work fine and all but they're basically lower quality and performing parts for quite a bit more than what I spent. I used Autoparts high carbon rotors and Akebono Street Performance (HPS equivalents) pads and it still cost me $200 less. If you wanted to match the price you could get some Powerslot cryoed slotted rotors and HP+ pads and match the kits price.

3. I was able to source everything myself and as such now posses all the part numbers possible for the kit. Calipers are extremely cheap as well as everything else and if you coupon like I did you'll get everything cheaper (I couponed my setup down to $375 minus the brake lines). I don't have to worry about a company going out of business nor anything to recreate the parts. This was originally a homebrewed bbk but nobody gave the details and all kept it to themselves (shame on them :notgood: ) . I'm just easing the pain of those who searched and never got a definitive answer on how-to fit these, where to get the parts and how much it cost.
 
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1) Hub-centric rotor spacer to center the rotor on your DSM hub
So it appears that the kit at least hub centers the rotor. There may or may not be any of the hub left to center the wheel... So your point stands.
In the picture, it appears not much of any of the wheel centering ability is left over.

2) Looking at a picture of the ctsv caliper... wouldn't it be easier to machine 5mm off of the mounting? It looks as if the mounting tab expands about 1.5-2mm so theres only ~3mm to shave down (red outlined portion). That caliper tab looks to be thicker than the DSM knuckle mounts.
**Disclaimer: I took no measurements, so I could be completely WRONG on this, it is just speculation. Also the picture is overhead of an LS1/gm car swap, and not a DSM knuckle. I couldn't find such a picture in 1 minute of googling**

If this is that case, wouldn't it be much easier/desireable to machine the caliper that way if you ever return to stock, you have OEM knuckled to locate an OEM or otherwise bolt-on caliper?
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1) Hub-centric rotor spacer to center the rotor on your DSM hub
So it appears that the kit at least hub centers the rotor. There may or may not be any of the hub left to center the wheel... So your point stands.
In the picture, it appears not much of any of the wheel centering ability is left over.

1. Rotor centering isn't an issue. That's what the spacer centering ring is for. That's mitigated in both methods. Hub centering the wheel is what is lost. That tiny poke on the ring does nothing as that's where the chamfer of the wheel hub bore (or centering ring if you need one) lies. So you are depending on centering your wheel with the rotor and lug nuts and absorbing all the load without the help of the hub centering ring.

2) Looking at a picture of the ctsv caliper... wouldn't it be easier to machine 5mm off of the mounting? It looks as if the mounting tab expands about 1.5-2mm so theres only ~3mm to shave down (red outlined portion). That caliper tab looks to be thicker than the DSM knuckle mounts.
**Disclaimer: I took no measurements, so I could be completely WRONG on this, it is just speculation. Also the picture is overhead of an LS1/gm car swap, and not a DSM knuckle. I couldn't find such a picture in 1 minute of googling**

If this is that case, wouldn't it be much easier/desireable to machine the caliper that way if you ever return to stock, you have OEM knuckled to locate an OEM or otherwise bolt-on caliper?

I am a little confused by your statement. I think you should read the step by step instructions and see the pictures in the OP. The material removed is from the mounting tabs of the CTS-V Brombo caliper, not the knuckle mounting tabs. This is completely reversible to oem specs. There's not even a need of tapping any hole like the Evo brackets require you to. Ever need to change the caliper, just get a new one and machine the same 5mm and install. Easy as pie. The material removed is very little and doesn't touch the strengthening ribs on the back of the caliper like the Evo caliper mount system requires you to.

Hope this clears things up a bit.
 
No problem. I was worried that I might have mis-represented the instructions. Hopefully we will see more people with brakes that match their power. I always see lots of high horsepower cars with stock brakes and makes me cringe just thinking that their braking distance is a freight train length.
 
Got a couple of good questions from wasabi37 asked through private message.

1. Where to get the 2mm shims since most are only 1mm (0.5mm on each side). The place I found them is hardbrakes.com

This is the location:
https://hardbrakes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_7_23_35&products_id=30

2. Why does it state a 70.1mm hub bore for the rotor but I put a 70.5mm hub adapter in the parts list.

This is due to tolerances. The difference is very small and my experience with rotors is that they tend to vary on the larger side on ther inner hub bore diameter from their original nominal size (70.1mm). I prefer a tighter fit to mitigate any issues with concentricity and if needed you can remove a little of the material with some sand paper and elbow grease to match.

Hope this clears some doubts.

Cheers!
 
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Adding 2mm Titanium shims on both sides will get you to the 32mm OEM range in terms of piston to rotor engagement length. The reduced thickness rotors work fine without the shims, but if you want to reduce brake pad kick-back (if you road race, autocross, etc) then this will get you there with the added bonus of more heat dissipation.

Could you elaborate on the "both sides" part? Sorry, my imagination is not following. (back sides of pads somewhere?)
 
Could you elaborate on the "both sides" part? Sorry, my imagination is not following. (back sides of pads somewhere?)

Yeah, sure thing. Both sides means to the back of each brake pad on the contact surface with the pistons. Two shims per caliper for a total of 4mm spacing (2mm on each side).

Rotor thickness 28mm + 2mm (inner brake pad shim) + 2mm (outer brake pad shim) = 32mm which would simulate having a 32mm rotor in there instead of the Ford's 28mm. This puts the pad to rotor contact distance more in line with what was originally intended.

Hope this helps.
 
The only part about this i don't like. Is not being able to run the smaller wheel.

I was looking at 16x7-8 Motegi Tracklites. From your post info this wouldn't be an option.

Definitely, 16" wheels are not an option with 4 piston Brembos. They won't fit due to the caliper size. Minimum size is 17" and not all wheels fit. It all depends on offset, spoke design and barrel internal diameter. Rule of thumb is that if they don't fit in an Evo caliper conversion, they won't fit here either as the body is practically the same.
 
Definitely, 16" wheels are not an option with 4 piston Brembos. They won't fit due to the caliper size. Minimum size is 17" and not all wheels fit. It all depends on offset, spoke design and barrel internal diameter. Rule of thumb is that if they don't fit in an Evo caliper conversion, they won't fit here either as the body is practically the same.

Okay so what are evo owners doing when they run slicks? That's the point I'm getting to. Eventually I want to have a Drag tire setup. But I want this brake conversion more,as I would be doing more street driving.
So just figuring out what wheel and tire size I fall in is my challenge.
 
They do either of two things. Casual drag racers run on 17" slicks on wide wheels on all four corners, and those that are dedicated drag cars get wilwood or equivalent smaller brake setups to run smaller wheels.
 
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