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FP 68HTA dyno results

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I have not bolted my Hta 68 on yet. But i have been following turbo labs on You tube. I think he is working on making a ball bearing set up for the 16gs. I may send him my HTA 68 and have him custom build it ball bearing. After that i imagine it would spool much faster and provide good top end. But he is in the trial stages and it may require a new center cartridge. If it becomes available im going to try it out.
 
A very long time coming, glad to see you finally got it out there. Can't believe Sam let you off the dyno without taking her to 30psi. LOL
Honestly Corey, Sam and I have no idea how your car made that much power on a HTA68 LOL (SMIM?). I was telling Sam I was trying to beat your hp numbers but we soon realize that it wasn't happening. As for the 30psi, 28 was all she had in her. It could be the fact that I'm still on a internal wastegate but I refuse to go external. Sleeper FTW

On a side note, I have in my possession a 2nd generation HTA68 (6SL2 turbine wheel, 8cm housing, Internally gated) which I will be doing a head to head with my 1st generation HTA68. Nothing is going to be changed on my setup except the turbo. This will be sometime down the road as I want to break into the 11s first with my current setup. Stay tuned
 
Honestly Corey, Sam and I have no idea how your car made that much power on a HTA68 LOL (SMIM?). I was telling Sam I was trying to beat your hp numbers but we soon realize that it wasn't happening.
More the likely it was probably a combination of a few things, the SMIM and the externally gated and dumped o2 housing probably helped too.

Looks like I'll be needing to get my car back onto a dynapack before the end of the year and get some new numbers for my slightly modified v1 HTA68, seeing how it stacks up against your v2 once you get around to dynoing it.

The secret to good numbers at RRE is to have Honda stand their and talk shit about your setup while Frank's standing their drinking a Michelob tall boy, it puts Sam in the zone. LOL
 
I was gonna ask a simliar question, at STMs dyno day/open house I ran into some DSM guys and we all had a pretty lengthy discussion about street turbos and choices and the general consensus was the MHI version 68, and one of them told me since I had an EvoIII 16g and the new style 68hta, I could actually pull the compressor cover off the 16g and bolt it right onto the 68hta and then I'd have an old style and it'd basically be a compromise, gain a lot of spool (Daniels dyno chart supports this compared to what I've seen out of my own car on link) and get to keep the top end. I can tear cars apart all day long but turbo's are relatively new territory for me, anyone have any thoughts on it? I don't see why it wouldn't work, but I'm way out of my comfort zone blindly tearing into two good working turbos.

And Dsmkauai, I am not sure about swapping the parts around, but I can tell you that when I took my car to watkins glenn for opening day I was kind of disappointed in the responsiveness in the turbo, it was great on the straightaways but watkins glenn is a road course and all the tight corners I was really have trouble rowing the gears trying to keep it in boost, but my car isn't really fond of dropping into 2nd at 45mph because I'm lagging in 3rd.
 
I was gonna say for those that want to daily drive the new hta68 have a 7cm machined out to fit it. Note: with the new hta68 I think the turbine is too larger to fit in an evo 3 7cm(less material) so you may need to find a b16g 7cm housing.

19gsx you wouldn't gain much spool bolting a 16g compressor onto the new hta68 I think you mean to put the hta68 compressor/compressor cover onto your e316g. That way you would have something close to the v1 hta68(7cm hta68 ). The newer 68 has a larger turbine with less blades and a 8cm housing, that's where the lag comes from and the great top end.
 
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Gotcha, I think final solution to the whole thing is going to be to send the 68 out to justin to make sure everythings good then just sell/trade it for a v1. Brett
(GST with PSI) requested I make some back to back logs, v2 68hta against the evo3 so people would have something comparable since there haven't been a whole lot of people running this at higher boost levels, I was running 20-22psi in the 68 and will be running the same pressure in the 16g with an almost identical tune (no other changes) so hopefully that will provide some good information for someone considering upgrading.
 
The secret to good numbers at RRE is to have Honda stand their and talk sh** about your setup while Frank's standing their drinking a Michelob tall boy, it puts Sam in the zone. LOL

Oh believe me, Honda was there talking plenty of sh** haha but then again it was after the tune so maybe thats why i didnt make as much as you.

As for v1 vs v2, I totally agree with what everyone is saying. In my opinion I rather have a quicker spool up (I make full boost around 3700) than a little bit more top end. This is why I went with the v1 first because I wanted to see exactly what people are trading off by going with the newer version.
 
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Sorry my bad, if you mounted your hta68 compressor wheel and cover onto an e316g you would have the v1 hta 68 (tdo5h turbine 7cm turbine housing). I don't know that forced performance used an evo 3 turbine wheel in the v1. The e3 turbine is lighter than a standard tdo5h turbine which would help with spool a little. I would try the 68 compressor wheel on your evo 316g before you go thru the headache of buying and selling turbo's, and down the road you could always swap to the v2 and run the 8cm housing.

Some say if you change compressor wheel you need to have the turbo balanced.... but the turbine and compressor wheels are balanced individually, if you swap compressor wheels I wouldn't think you would have any problems.
 
The e3 turbine is lighter than a standard tdo5h turbine which would help with spool a little.

What is this lighter TD05H turbine wheel you speak of? I've never heard this or seen this.
 
As for v1 vs v2, I totally agree with what everyone is saying. In my opinion I rather have a quicker spool up (I make full boost around 3700) than a little bit more top end. This is why I went with the v1 first because I wanted to
see exactly what people are trading off by going with the newer version.
Damn, 28psi by 3.7k. My v1 hta68 I'm hitting 30psi ~4.3k on my setup even when I had the Evo IM installed.
 
As for v1 vs v2, I totally agree with what everyone is saying. In my opinion I rather have a quicker spool up (I make full boost around 3700) than a little bit more top end. This is why I went with the v1 first because I wanted to see exactly what people are trading off by going with the newer version.

That's crazy fast. Do you have the log from the dyno runs? My bastard 20G didn't even spool that fast on E85.
 
The evo 3 turbine is slightly different than the standard tdo5h. That's why people suggest the e316g over a b16g.

b16g est. 40lb/min e316g 42lb/min. tdo5h turbine inducer 1.893 exducer 2.68. evo3 turbine inducer 1.903 exducer 2.68. The blades on the e316g turbine are also thinner than a standard tdo5. I have an evo3 turbine(got a toasted e316g for parts and the turbine housing) and a b16g. E3 turbine=better and will spool slightly faster. If I had more time, wasn't about to move and had all my turbos in 1 place I would take pictures and put the turbines on my scale.

2lb/min isn't much but that's 20hp
 
The evo 3 turbine is slightly different than the standard tdo5h. That's why people suggest the e316g over a b16g.

b16g est. 40lb/min e316g 42lb/min. tdo5h turbine inducer 1.893 exducer 2.68. evo3 turbine inducer 1.903 exducer 2.68. The blades on the e316g turbine are also thinner than a standard tdo5. I have an evo3 turbine(got a toasted e316g for parts and the turbine housing) and a b16g. E3 turbine=better and will spool slightly faster. If I had more time, wasn't about to move and had all my turbos in 1 place I would take pictures and put the turbines on my scale.

2lb/min isn't much but that's 20hp

I have no idea what you just said...

Every TD05H turbine (including the one from the Evo III) I've ever seen was the same, except for the Chinese knockoff versions you find in Ebay 16G turbos. Those turbines are built heavier, which is why you can't use MHI parts to rebuild an Ebay 16G.

People recommend the Evo 3 over the B16G because of a slight size increase on the inducer of the compressor wheel, which is the reason you're getting a small bump in flow. The turbines are identical. Compare any 2 MHI TD05H turbines and I assure you they'll be the same. If you're seeing a measurable weight difference, I'd guess you probably have one of the heavier Chinese versions.

For reference:
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The evo 3 turbine is slightly different than the standard tdo5h. That's why people suggest the e316g over a b16g.

b16g est. 40lb/min e316g 42lb/min. tdo5h turbine inducer 1.893 exducer 2.68. evo3 turbine inducer 1.903 exducer 2.68. The blades on the e316g turbine are also thinner than a standard tdo5. I have an evo3 turbine(got a toasted e316g for parts and the turbine housing) and a b16g. E3 turbine=better and will spool slightly faster. If I had more time, wasn't about to move and had all my turbos in 1 place I would take pictures and put the turbines on my scale.

2lb/min isn't much but that's 20hp
The Evo3 version has a different compressor. The turbine wheel is the same as any other td05h wheel.

I believe you are confusing the compressor, and turbine of the turbo. The compressor draws in air and compresses it. The turbine is driven by exhaust gasses from the engine.
 
Damn, 28psi by 3.7k. My v1 hta68 I'm hitting 30psi ~4.3k on my setup even when I had the Evo IM installed.
Thats what Sam and I were noticing when we compared our dyno graphs to each other. Your whole power curve was shifted to the right on both HP and QT vs mine. We were thinking it was your SMIM and other parts doing that.

That's crazy fast. Do you have the log from the dyno runs? My bastard 20G didn't even spool that fast on E85.
Everything in my car is port matched, ported, and polished where it can be. As for the logs, I believe my tuner has them. I'll see if i can get them from him, however he like to take his sweet time with everything LOL.
 
I remembered reading about the evo 3 being different, the turbine housing is for sure lighter its a different casting than a standard tdo5h 6or7cm housing. I knew one of the wheels on the e316g was slightly different than a standard b16g from research I did years ago. Guess my memory is fading I thought it was the turbine. Sorry for the incorrect info and thanks for the chart above.
 
Alright guys.. I finally got the 16g running and not blowing a coupler anymore so here is a back to back log between the two, the only mechanical change on this setup was the turbo.. I'm posting this to show anyone who may be interested in FPs latest version of the 68hta that it may not perform as you expect if you plan on keeping the boost low. At my current boost level the 16g feels almost as strong in the top end but spools almost 1000rpm quicker and part throttle driving is much more responsive and fun.

I am in no way saying that it is a bad turbo or a bad choice but it also worlds different in its characteristics then the evo3 16g. It is the equivalent to me of going from a tack hammer to a 4lb engineers hammer.. there will be some differences, quite an adjustment period, and you may not be happy with what you end up with, especially if you have any plans on keeping the boost low (20psi..ish) as I did.. Again I am not trying to cause an argument, Just share some information and my findings.
 

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It's a good effort 91gsx91 but your log comparison has some skewed info that isn't a fair comparison between the turbos, besides that getting an idea of spool times next to impossible without a logged MAP sensor showing boost vs RPM. Just because something isn't mechanically any different the tune is just as important and your timing advance is nowhere near the same.

When you go WOT makes a difference, i.e., your HTA68 log you go from 0% to 80% throttle @ 1.5k then 100% @ 2k but in your 16g log you go from 0% to 100% @ 1.7k. It's also important that it's at least done on the same stretch of tarmac if you're trying to compare logs because road elevation changes (uphill or downhill) affect spool times as well.

With the 16g you're using a modified 1g timing table, peak tq your at 14* and advancing it to 18* by redline.

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With the HTA68 you're using the 2004 Evo VIII GSR Ralliart timing table, peak tq your at 9* and advancing it to 15* by redline.

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I understand you've got good intentions but it's hardly a apple to apples comparison man, mechanically the same with the exception of the turbo change is only half of it. Besides that, if you look at your logs both the 16g and HTA68 are making peak tq at the exact same RPM which is typically full boost. If you ran an aggressive timing table, similar to the modified 1g table you have in your 16g log, on the HTA68 it would spool faster because of timing advance under the curve and flow more up top too with the additional 3* advance. And from what I can tell in the log both the HTA68 and 16g are hitting whatever boost you're running (no MAP sensor) at 4k (peak tq).
 
I won't dispute that, I have a log of the 16g running the same map I believe but I'll have to check my laptop when I get home. All WOT pulls are done on the same stretch, I'm sure you've got a favorite spot to do them as well. I went through every map I could find on the 68tha all with very little change to the characteristics of the spoolup itself, always kind of lagged right until 4k.


I have several logs of both but was trying to provide the cleanest ones as I was also fighting a TPS issue at the same time and didn't want it to turn into a conversation about my tune..
 
I understand, you've got good intentions providing useful information but because there are so many factors that affect spool-up it's tough. Getting a logged MAP sensor so we can see actual boost would probably be the most useful piece to those logs, besides the tune differences for comparison.

It's not for me though, I appreciate the insight to the different turbo's. Hell, I tried doing the same when I first made the switch too...

FP HTA68, FP2's, & E85
 
I appreciate it, I think it's just different wants/needs from our cars. I can't stress to you guys enough that this is my summer daily driver.. not my nice weather car, not my show car. I drive this car EVERY day, and until I finish my LSX swap into my Camaro the only other thing I have to drive is a pathfinder that can't get out of it's own way. I had an expectation going in with the 68hta and I was let down a bit but I've never owned anything or driven anything that didn't have a stock frame turbo, so I never had really have a good point of reference.
 
After receiving my v2 68hta in October and waiting to get the car back together, I just now find this thread. And I went from excited to......well not. I was not aware that the 8cm housing created that much difference in the spool up time/rpm. Especially since my goal was an aggressive street car, more than actually drag racing it. I'm coming from an evo3 16g, and not too sure I actually want to run the 68hta now.

I partially blame FP with their laziness of not keeping the website updated, and their reluctance to really give any info, even after I got them on the phone. It seems there's a difference between what FP told me the spool up difference would be (300-400 rpm higher), to what real world results seem to be (900-1000 rpm higher). Even though the car will be tuned almost immediately after installing the new turbo, I'm not sure the results of 20psi on the 68hta is what I'm looking for (based on the experiences of what I'm seeing on here). :toobad:
 
I'm not sure the results of 20psi on the 68hta is

If your end goal is 20 pounds of boost, you should have just stayed with the 16g. You'll literally be downgrading by running the new 68HTA on low boost.

People need to realize the new 68HTA is a completely different animal than any TD05H variant. Unless you're shooting for 30+ psi, this turbo is not for you.
 
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