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Automatic transmission issue.

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AWDTSITALON89

Probationary Member
8
0
Aug 26, 2013
Horse Cave, Kentucky
Ok I have a 95 Talon, when I bought the car I knew it didn't have overdrive, which at the time was fine by me because I had a 5 speed swap planned. Little did I know how scares an awd 5 speed parts car was and how expensive they would be. So that's kinda out of the question. Right now I just want to get my transmission lined out and I have no idea where to start or what the root cause of my tranny issue is. So that being said, 1.) I have no overdrive. 2.) My car does not want to go into first gear. (the only reason it actually pulls itself from a dead stop is because of the turbo spooling.) 3.) When I shift into reverse it jerks really bad (wether I am pressing on the brakes or when I let off.) I have noticed that once I drive for a while and the tranny warms up it will not jerk in reverse. Any and all help with this issue will be appreciated. If I wasn't on a budget then I would have already replaced a lot of things. Such as the end clutches, front clutches, filter and fluid ( I have read these post over and over trying to come to a conclusion.) but I wanna make sure what I replace actually makes a difference. Now don't get me wrong I'm all about preventive maint. but I want to see progress first. I have had this car for about 4 months now and I haven't got to enjoy it any, except for looking at it in my drive way. Any help would be great.
 
First install a new filter and fluid, then test. End clutches are almost a given. Any other repairs and it is best to have it looked over by a professional. If your car had a 6-bolt, then you could order an RVR turbo transmission form Japan as it is 2g ready and holds gobs of power. If you install one on a 7-bolt, you will bust the tranny almost instantly.

You can also look for a used auto tranny here on the forum, left over from a swap to get it running cheaper than a shop rebuild.
 
I would start by removing & inspecting the OD end clutch assembly... this can be done with the trans in the car & is pretty straight forward. -This unit is most likely responsible for the no OD condition.

As for everything else that's acting up, I'd start with servicing the trans with new filter & fluid... it could be any number of things (like low fluid level, bad pump, internal trans damage, a clogged filter, cooler, and/or valve body). Best bet would be to start with the simple/most cost effective things first.

I've seen burnt friction material debris from a dead end clutch wreck havoc on the rest of the trans before... You might as well plan on rebuilding the end clutch while you have it out for inspection.
 
thomcasey I believe I have the 7 bolt in my car and I was thinking about getting an rvr tranny and swapping it because I can get one shipped for less then $500.00 and by the time I replace the pump, end clutches, fluid and filter, I would obviously have money tied up in my current tranny, and if it is the internals after replacing everything I would have been better off buying a different tranny since it would cost over 1k to rebuild the internals (as the local transmission shop quoted me) so my question is if the rvr tranny is a 7 bolt and so is my car why would it bust the tranny? What kind of impact would it have on the tranny? And would it still have the same effect if the part number from my tranny and the rvr are the same?
 
First lets make sure that your tcu is working, all of those symptoms are what would happen if your tcu quit working.
 
It could be the torque converter causing the hard reverse, do you notice any shuddering in any gear(high or low load)? It could also be something in the valve body, like a sticky exhaust valve, it could also be causing the issue with OD, but I bet they are no good, they are known to be problamatic. If overdrive is shot and it has been driven a lot like that the friction material that gets in the fluid can really clog things up and will require a good cleaning by disassembling everything.

But one step at a time, pull the OD clutches and pull that pack apart I use two screw drivers and some friends to help me assemble/reassemble it. Take some pics then change the filter and fluid. If buying from advance auto make sure you get the expensive one(14 bolt oil pan), the others will not fit. And the Trans fluid is ATF+4.
And PM me I'm ordering a set of OD clutches (raybestos) and they are cheaper the more I get.
 
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Whoa, whoa, whoa! Lets not start a klan rally on this thing until we know the basics first, lets take a step back away from it for a second and slow down and look at things. There might not even be anything wrong with the transmission it could be a blown tcu or even a fuse that feeds the tcu. If this thing is running in limp mode and it sounds like it is then that has nothing to do with the end clutches.
 
OP stated he has never had OD, but has had every other gear till now may be the TCU may not, but we know OD is not there which leads me to believe its internal especially when it doesn't clunk into reverse when warm...I didn't know the TCU needed to warm up to shift the cr into reverse smoothly??
 
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It doesnt but with the tcu not working the transmission WILL have full line pressure which will make it clunk going into reverse.
 
The TCU warming up was a joke, mines at full line pressure and there is no clunks into reverse. OP check for TCU codes and see what you come up with. Also smell the TCU see if it smells funky so we can get that out of the way.
 
No overdrive..Ok well there is a connector that has to be plugged in to get into 4th gear.

Or your end clutches are shot.Which can be done with the trans still in the car. Heres the link IPT End Clutch Kit | Mitsubishi DSM | W4A33
 
My vote is on the end clutches being shot or not installed correctly. If those gaskets aren't on there correctly, it won't shift into OD correctly either. I learned when I replaced mine way back when.
 
I have done the research and I have come to terms with the end clutches being bad. I know they will need to be replaced. When I pull the tranny dip stick it seems to be full but it does have a burnt smell to it. Also I'm well aware that if I decide to go with another tranny then the end clutches will most likely need replaced as well. So my question to that is if I install the end clutches in my current tranny (along with other things such as the valve body if it goes that far.) would I be able to remove them and install them in the new/used tranny or will I need to order another set? How would I go about checking the TCU? Would I just hook a multimeter up to it or what? I'm not against replacing possible issue especially if it means that it would prevent future tranny trouble but I don't want to be wasting money on something twice. And just an FYI I will be doing this work myself the local transmission shop is a joke. I wouldn't take my bicycle there. To be honest the are quite a few mechanical shops around here that I wouldn't trust.

Oh almost forgot to ask, when I do start this road of troubleshooting should I replace the current internals so to speak with performance parts? I am running a stock turbo set up right now but I plan on going to a big 16g after I get everything mechanically sound. And I would hate to have to replace anything I had already replaced if I could keep from it. I know that the parts may be more expensive however I would rather pay a little more for a better product then to have to replace it again. And if I did have to replace anything again I would probably buy the more durable part the second time around. The way I look at it is if there is money saved then that's money that could go into upgrades later on down the road.
 
Since an auto trans is the easiest thing to rebuild,and like i said the end clutches can be done with the tranny still in the car.Replace the fluid and the filter as well and you should be good to go.I posted the link to the stock end clutch kit in m previous post in this thread.Id replace the end clutches in your trans first then go from there.


Now to start with your next question.A 16g or even a 14b is still an upgrade to the POS stock t25.Your internals,pistons rods(block,well start there)..For the block you will not need to worry about dropping 6-800 on forged pistons.In stock form the 4g block is still one tough cookie to crack, unless your doing it wrong..


Turbo builders/rebuilders See signiture.

Now for the dickish part..Do not think about upgrading anything untill this is read and you make a checklist of worn out stock parts that will break sooner than later DSM 4G63 Maintenance Guide - DSMtuners


Once thats understood then you can start thinking about these Tech Guide: 2G 4G63t Upgrades - DSMtuners
 
Thank you guys for all the info I really appreciate it. I have never tried repairing a transmission and I appreciate all the links as well. I didn't plan on throwing a bigger turbo on as soon as I fixed the tranny. I do want to make sure everything is mechanically sound before doing upgrades and I want to do them in order so I don't spend more time fixing my car then driving it. But my question about the upgrades was mainly directed to the tranny, like would the oem replacement parts hold up to the big 16g set up? I mean I don't plan on building it to drag race it, I want my car to remain my daily driver but I do want it to be able to smoke those showboating mustang owners LOL. But that is all in the future, after I make sure every thing is in a good solid state mechanical wise. But yeah I totally understand what every says about maintanice before upgrades so, no I don't think you were being dickish in the least.
 
Ohh a 16g on the stock auto trans is basically your question..I just wanted to make sure u had the maintenence stuff before u throw parts at your car and then break down,down the street or something.


Onto your question..In stock form the dsm auto trans can actually handle about 400 hp give or take. A 16g even with 1000 cc injectora and corn in the tank will most likely not net most of us 400 hp..

im on my phone so i cant link anything..but will you do yourself a favor and look into a shift box..roadsurge is my shift box favorite but i know forced fours shift boxes are hot right now..so take a look at those,and if u have any questions ill be happy to answer a shift box question.:thumb:
 
That's exactly what I wanted to know. Now on to look up this shift box you speak of.

Ok I just looked up the sift boxes and the roadsurge is the cheaper of the two so I'll ###### go with it. I'm going to add that to my Christmas list LOL. I gotta have one. But I do have a couple questions. 1.) Do you lose boost when shifting as you would in a 5 speed? And 2.) in order to put it in reverse you just flip the switch as you would to drive normally and just move the shifter to reverse right?
 
also, while you rebuild, consider having the torque converter checked out. just to be safe. on my old nt talon, I have stripped the splines (teeth) inside the torque converter before. this happened about the same time that i burnt the end clutches
 
That's exactly what I wanted to know. Now on to look up this shift box you speak of.

Ok I just looked up the sift boxes and the roadsurge is the cheaper of the two so I'll ###### go with it. I'm going to add that to my Christmas list LOL. I gotta have one. But I do have a couple questions. 1.) Do you lose boost when shifting as you would in a 5 speed? And 2.) in order to put it in reverse you just flip the switch as you would to drive normally and just move the shifter to reverse right?

You looked it up nice to hear..Its a simple wiring job to hok it up.If you have done stereos your probably golden.

For forward gears you put the shifter in drive with od on.And use the buttons to up and downshift.You will not loose boost pressure shifting there is no clutch remember.

For reverse it just as simple as putting the shifter in reverse..The button on the roadsurge box it to shut it off and let the trans computer control shifting like you never had a shift box at all.Yes youll loose full line pressure, but if your mom,dad,gf,bf cousin need to drive your car.They can.


One thing the shift boxes dont mention tho.Is to not ever downshift into first while moving..Thats alot of drivetrain shock,trust me i chirpped the tires on accident thinking it would be fine going into first from 2nd..I was dead wrong, that was a horrible idea.
 
Alright. Thanks for the info. One more question, what's the difference between a shift box and starting in low then shifting to second then drive? I had a friend to do that in his little ford focus and within the week he was replacing the transmission.
 
Well the difference between a shift box and going manually through the gears is going to come down to line pressure..The stock trans shifts smooth right.The shift box shifts to the next gear in super fast mode.

Just adding a shift box at the track for a weekend warrior dealy would net you faster ets than the computer would shift the trans normally.Its right now your in the next gear ETC.

And since the computer isnt trying to make it soft, the temp should should actually come down.As far as trans temp.
 
Good deal. I'll update once I order my end clutches. Should I replace anything else besides the fluid and filter while I'm at it? I'm just trying to get a list together before she goes under the wrench LOL.
 
My vote is on the end clutches being shot or not installed correctly. If those gaskets aren't on there correctly, it won't shift into OD correctly either. I learned when I replaced mine way back when.
Looks like you might be able to help me out. You had mentioned you had rebuilt the end clutch wrong redid it and got OD back. I believe I might have done the same but I don't Know where exactly. I think I might have got the orientation wrong on the outer o ring of the piston. This is where I'm at so far. I had ordered a end clutch repair kit from Ipt transmissions. Also I followed his you tube video and rebuilt it each step as he did. Now when I was re-installing the piston. The video showed him wiggling it back in. I feel like a dumbass because of the answer I know I'm gonna get, but I could not get mine to wiggle in. I used a hammer to get it in place. Now for the funness! This weekend I'm taking the end clutch out and gonna redo the oring on the piston. The or ring looked like an L shape. How I have it in car now is the thicker part is in the piston channel with the thin little lip out, could this be my issue. That I might have gotten the oring flipped? I mean seriously , the video showed dude wiggling piston back in and I know I should've stopped when mine didn't but I was sure it would have worked. If the oring gasket for piston are installed correctly would it wiggle in no problem and not need force. I'm scared I screwed up the inner but if not Ipt did send an extra kit. Thanks everyone that can help. This forum is where I heard about an end clutch
 
I don't remember too much about the install, but I do remember I had to flip one of the o rings around and it worked. couldn't tell you if it looked different, but it made a difference. Wouldn't shift into overdrive after rebuild until I swapped the o ring around and it worked fine after that.
 
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