ECMlink Speed Density and E85 Tuning

Stew Pidaso · May 6, 2016

Boosted, when you say its getting higher than what you want it to, are you talking about the VE adjustments you are making? Had OP posted another log and the WB was matching with target, where would you go from there?

BoostedBeaver · May 7, 2016

Yes, I was referring to the VE values. If those values made the AFRs line up, I would have globally scaled the VE table to make the highest cell 100% and adjusted the global fuel accordingly. This would have made the table visually pleasing.

Type1DSMr · May 7, 2016

I will post another log when I get the car back together, made some small changes. However, I noticed when in 1st gear around 4500rpm I hit a brick wall and my afrs go to 16.5 went my target is 12.5. The car does not like it, but I don't get any knock. I believe I have a log of it happening and will post, if I find it.

Lester B · May 8, 2016

Great thread. I've been dialing in my table and learning good stuff here. Thanks guys.

gofer · May 8, 2016

Type1DSMr said:
I will post another log when I get the car back together, made some small changes. However, I noticed when in 1st gear around 4500rpm I hit a brick wall and my afrs go to 16.5 went my target is 12.5. The car does not like it, but I don't get any knock. I believe I have a log of it happening and will post, if I find it.

Curious to see a log of this happening if you've got one.

Type1DSMr · May 8, 2016

Well apparently I was streaming not capturing, so I'll make another log in a few days and post it. It happened both times I've taken 1st gear into the upper rpms so won't be hard to recreate.

Type1DSMr · May 20, 2016

Here's a 3rd pull with cruise log attach (forget to stop capture LOL

). For some reason it doesn't hold 100% throttle as it starts to taper down. Also during cruising the afrs don't line up as the estafrs keep jumping to 16. I try to recreate the 1st gear pull but this time it did not stall like it did before. One last thing the boost was too high jumping to 36psi. I guess it got turned pull, my little boy likes to turn the purple knob when he gets a chance.

Type1DSMr · Sep 4, 2016

Decided to start over and use gas for a little bit with maf, but now I'm back to sd and e85. I just made an idle log a few minutes ago to be looked at.

Stew Pidaso · Sep 20, 2016

To me and to my understanding of this thread the idle log doesnt look too bad. If you start doing some cruising and wot then I think you're on the very safe side as far as timing and WB target. When you start doing wot tuning, pay attention to the VE table as I feel those values and be altered a bit to bring your target and actual AFR closer. If my experience treats me right, I'm expecting your Actual AFR to be a little bit leaner than your target by the lower VE table values but I will leave that to another log to prove me wrong or another more experienced tuner. I'm looking for more knowledge as well for when I can actually get to this process with my car.

Type1DSMr · Sep 20, 2016

Stew Pidaso said:
To me and to my understanding of this thread the idle log doesnt look too bad. If you start doing some cruising and wot then I think you're on the very safe side as far as timing and WB target. When you start doing wot tuning, pay attention to the VE table as I feel those values and be altered a bit to bring your target and actual AFR closer. If my experience treats me right, I'm expecting your Actual AFR to be a little bit leaner than your target by the lower VE table values but I will leave that to another log to prove me wrong or another more experienced tuner. I'm looking for more knowledge as well for when I can actually get to this process with my car.

Here's a log from yesterday, and I started over a couple of weeks ago. I have a different thread with all the changes. You will notice the airflow is off because of the boostest and actual boost don't match, so there is a formula that has to be done to get actual airflow.

Stew Pidaso · Sep 20, 2016

I would try a BLT first to make sure that is the reason they are not matching up.

Type1DSMr · Sep 20, 2016

Stew Pidaso said:
I would try a BLT first to make sure that is the reason they are not matching up.

No, blt has been done along with compression test. Usually that indicates injectors not lining up but since the afrest and actual afr do along with good combine fts. I'm not worried about it. I'm also using the flex fuel sensor so that may have something to do with it since it has the injectors set at 900cc or so on e85 and not smaller like it is without the sensor in.

Stew Pidaso · Sep 21, 2016

Type1DSMr said:
No, blt has been done along with compression test. Usually that indicates injectors not lining up but since the afrest and actual afr do along with good combine fts. I'm not worried about it. I'm also using the flex fuel sensor so that may have something to do with it since it has the injectors set at 900cc or so on e85 and not smaller like it is without the sensor in.

I'm subscribed to see how this turns out for you

Dhan · Sep 21, 2016

I have been watching this thread as well. Great info for E85 and SD :applause:

Subscribed!

Type1DSMr · Sep 21, 2016

Stew Pidaso said:
I'm subscribed to see how this turns out for you

Dhan said:
I have been watching this thread as well. Great info for E85 and SD Subscribed!

You both may wanna check out the new thread I made that includes the changes.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/fp68-hta-sd-and-e85.506235/#post-153608780
It has some good info on how to calculate the airflow when boost est don't match up. I will also update it with the how to adjust VE cells. I figured this thread went dead as it only had a couple people helping, but they did a great job because I learned how to do my own changes for SD and E85. The last few logs were done all by myself with the knowledge I received from this thread.

If you have any certain logs or ideas you would like to see just let me know.

99bluegst · Jan 25, 2019

Can someone explain how he get -54 global fuel,

I’m setting up my car with e85
And my number are way off
Currently have 850cc but according to Everyone 850*.670=569 global

But then I see this post make no sense

I have the flex fuel sensor installed reading 48.4%

So my question is why his global at -0.54

Thanks you in advance

Type1DSMr said:
Ok thanks! Yes, I used the gm flex sensor and the adjusted values it gave. I was at -37 global and the flex fuel adjust value was 39.8 so after following the math from ecmtuning website I ended up at -54.

I have no problem restarting everything going from low boost and up.

can

gofer · Jan 27, 2019

99bluegst said:
I’m setting up my car with e85
And my number are way off
Currently have 850cc but according to Everyone 850*.670=569 global

So my question is why his global at -0.54

Finding injector globals on pump gas (E10)

E0 is what your 850cc injectors are rated against with fuel pressure at 43.5psi. Pump gas is actually E10 though so you'd divide the two stoich values of the fuels first. E0 stoich is the 14.7:1, 14.1:1 is E10 stoich.

14.7 / 14.1 = 1.04

Then divide your injector size by this calculation...

850 / 1.04 = 817cc @ 43psi
That being said, the flow rate of stock injectors is calculated on E0 as well, so 450's are actually 433cc on E10.

To find injector globals for 817cc injectors on E10 pump gasoline the equation is...

433 / 817 - 1 = -0.52 or -52%

Finding injectors globals on E85

First divide the two fuels stoich values, E0 (since your injectors are 850cc on E0) and E85.

14.7 / 9.85 = 1.49

Then divide between injector size on E0 and the quotient of the two fuels (E0 and E85) stoich values. This is what your injectors will flow on E85...

850 / 1.49 = 570cc

Then find injector globals for 570cc injectors like you would if you were running E10 since this is what your 850cc injectors will flow running E85.

450 / 570 - 1 = -0.21 or -21%

So if you've got E85 in your tank then a good place to start tuning is setting your injector globals to -21%.

99bluegst said:
I have the flex fuel sensor installed reading 48.4%

If the FlexEthMix value being logged is 48.4% then that's the ethanol content in the fuel, so you're NOT running E85 you're running E48.4.

With all the above being said, I'm guessing that you're trying to setup your ethanol sensor settings in ECMLink? If so, your global fuel settings in the Fuel tab should be global fuel with E0 gasoline on 850cc injectors.

450 / 850 - 1 = -0.47 or -47%

Your AuxMaps settings should be something like this...

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The "Use MaxOct at & above" setting is the ethanol content (FlexEthMix value) at which the ECU will only use your MaxOct DA fuel/timing tables, so if you want to run your MaxOct DA tables at E70 then that's what you set that to. That would mean that any ethanol content value between E10 and E70 the ECU will interpolate/weight your Max/MinOct tables together to achieve a fuel and timing calculation based on ethanol content.

99bluegst · Jan 27, 2019

gofer said:
Finding injector globals on pump gas (E10)
E0 is what your 850cc injectors are rated against with fuel pressure at 43.5psi. Pump gas is actually E10 though so you'd divide the two stoich values of the fuels first. E0 stoich is the 14.7:1, 14.1:1 is E10 stoich.
14.7 / 14.1 = 1.04
Then divide your injector size by this calculation...
850 / 1.04 = 817cc @ 43psi
That being said, the flow rate of stock injectors is calculated on E0 as well, so 450's are actually 433cc on E10.
To find injector globals for 817cc injectors on E10 pump gasoline the equation is...
433 / 817 - 1 = -0.52 or -52%

Finding injectors globals on E85
First divide the two fuels stoich values, E0 (since your injectors are 850cc on E0) and E85.
14.7 / 9.85 = 1.49
Then divide between injector size on E0 and the quotient of the two fuels (E0 and E85) stoich values. This is what your injectors will flow on E85...
850 / 1.49 = 570cc
Then find injector globals for 570cc injectors like you would if you were running E10 since this is what your 850cc injectors will flow running E85.
450 / 570 - 1 = -0.21 or -21%

So if you've got E85 in your tank then a good place to start tuning is setting your injector globals to -21%.

If the FlexEthMix value being logged is 48.4% then that's the ethanol content in the fuel, so you're NOT running E85 you're running E48.4.

With all the above being said, I'm guessing that you're trying to setup your ethanol sensor settings in ECMLink? If so, your global fuel settings in the Fuel tab should be global fuel with E0 gasoline on 850cc injectors.
450 / 850 - 1 = -0.47 or -47%

Your AuxMaps settings should be something like this...
You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The "Use MaxOct at & above" setting is the ethanol content (FlexEthMix value) at which the ECU will only use your MaxOct DA fuel/timing tables, so if you want to run your MaxOct DA tables at E70 then that's what you set that to. That would mean that any ethanol content value between E10 and E70 the ECU will interpolate/weight your Max/MinOct tables together to achieve a fuel and timing calculation based on ethanol content.

thank you gofer this makes so much more sense, im trying to set up my fic 850 for e85 and I was just confused about the global tab but thank people like you for explaining all clear.

on my previous post I mention my sensor reading 48.4 I was wrong I meant to say my flexfueladj is reading at 41.4 and flexethmix @66% so what confuses me is the flexfueladj 41.4% reading, do I need to adjust my global fuel tab or? if you just please take a moment to look at my log and tell me if my setup is good?

gofer · Jan 27, 2019

When you add the flex fuel sensor there are four available parameters to log - FlexFreq, FlexEthMix, FlexOctWeight, and FlexFuelAdj. In the log you attached here's what each value of the aforementioned is logging and an explanation of each...

FlexFreq - 117.2hz

The E85 sensor reports ethanol content as a frequency from 50hz to 150hz sensor, 50hz is E0 and 150hz is E100, to the ECU. This value just shows the frequency that the sensor is outputting.

FlexEthMix - 67.2%

Exactly what you'd think it is, the % of ethanol content in your fuel. So you're running E67.2. Like I mentioned in my previous post, 91 oct reads as E10.

FlexOctWeight - 100%

Shows the "weight" that the ECU is giving to the MaxOct DA tables based on the ethanol content. 100% means the MaxOct DA tables, both fuel and timing, are being used exclusively. If it were reading 50% then the ECU would be taking an equal average between the MinOct and MaxOct DA tables.

FlexFuelAdj - 43%

Displays the amount of correction based on ethanol content to the ECU's injector settings. 0% shows no enrichment, so 43% shows a 43% enrichment is being applied to your injector pulsewidth. E10 is around 6% and E85 is around 55%, your fuel increase setting at E100 is 63%. So the 43% enrichment seems about right with your ethanol content being at 67.2%.

With all that being said, your injector global settings in your fuel tab should be what your injector globals would be if you were running E0, which I calculated in my previous post at -47%. Your Speed Density table is not tuned properly either, just to point out a few issues I'm also seeing in your log.

99bluegst · Jan 28, 2019

thank you again gofer im new to the e85 as im reading a lot of posts about e85 so I can learn more about it,
is ok to keep posting here or should I start a new post ? thank you
my injector are set as 570 with -21.9% global and I dont know if is normal but I had to go negative -150 death time just idle my airflowperref @.25 .26

gofer · Jan 28, 2019

Probably best to start a new thread if its regarding tunung.

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