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1G Twin scroll manifold for twin scroll 18/20g

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I think it was all the talk about single scroll 16g/20g and dsm flanges, somehow becoming twin scroll magically by using a divided manifold without using a twin scroll housing..
The flange confusion came from the turbo side, not the head side. At least, it did on my part.. because I was also wondering how the hell the exhaust ports would align LOL
So.. back to evox turbo with evox tubular manifold modified for a head-side dsm flange..

could work if it sits the turbo far enough from the motor.
 
Hey guys, sorry for the massive delay in update but I finally did get a chance to talk to Emery over at STM and he said if there was a group buy it would definitely be something he would be willing to do.. but he pointed out his manifolds aren't cheap and everything he makes is custom made, normally about 24 hours per manifold. That being said he could probably do them if enough people (I'm guessing 10+?) were in, the cost would be $1100-1400 per manifold, and that's basically paying the labor and R+D.

So In short.. yes it is possible, but not cost effective. He's not opposed to the idea of it at all, but he knows what all of us that have posted here already know.. the DSM community just isn't willing to spend that kind of money on a manifold when your paying less for the turbo.
 
Evo 8-9 turbo would be just as good or better with plenty of upgrade options. I could have this mani remade for 2gs and for a 1g it would just require a o2 housing redesign since the cross member is in a different position. Probably 1k per manifold.
 

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Evo 8-9 turbo would be just as good or better with plenty of upgrade options. I could have this mani remade for 2gs and for a 1g it would just require a o2 housing redesign since the cross member is in a different position. Probably 1k per manifold.

It would take more than an o2 housing change to fit a 1G. The front engine mount is on the block on a 1G as opposed to the trans on a 2G, so it would require a custom mount relocation to clear the compressor housing and actuator. The EVO X uses a standard rotation turbo and larger turbine housing, I'd much rather use that on a DSM, especially a 1G.
 
The problem with the evo8/9 turbo is its rotation. Parts to rebuild are more expensive, and the "best" way would be a top mount manifold, but no one wants to pay for one, because the turbo is so limited and if you were going that far, why not just do a t3/t4 ts, have your cake AND eat it?

The evo x mani I posted earlier with the flange swapped for a dsm is prolly the most "cost effective" way to do it, but it's not perfectly tuned. I guess if u want a perfectly tuned, you'd have to pay for it.

Edit: also, the evo8/9 manifold will bolt to the block, but the turbos compressor housing won't clear. I had to make a 2" spacer to clear the BS hump when I was making my setup. Then you'd have to figure out an intake setup.
 
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I did forget about the engine mount but its still doable and has been done before. Also the evo 8/9 can use a 9.8 10.5 or 11.5 turbine housing. I don't think the evo x turbine housing is as large as the 11.5.
 
The problem with the evo8/9 turbo is its rotation. Parts to rebuild are more expensive, and the "best" way would be a top mount manifold, but no one wants to pay for one, because the turbo is so limited and if you were going that far, why not just do a t3/t4 ts, have your cake AND eat it?

The evo x mani I posted earlier with the flange swapped for a dsm is prolly the most "cost effective" way to do it, but it's not perfectly tuned. I guess if u want a perfectly tuned, you'd have to pay for it.

Edit: also, the evo8/9 manifold will bolt to the block, but the turbos compressor housing won't clear. I had to make a 2" spacer to clear the BS hump when I was making my setup. Then you'd have to figure out an intake setup.
Intake setup is really easy. Also as you can see in my pictures I didn't use a spacer. And for first couple days after install i used the factory intake. Being reverse rotation doesn't make it more exspensive to rebuild as internally its the same as any tdo5 turbo. Currently there are alot of upgrades for it as well. Whether the external size of aftermarket cold side ade larger or not idk yet.
Either way if its bottom mount, top mount, forward facing doesn't matter, fitting either one will require custom tubular manifold as did mine. Good builder with a teat should be able to make one fit in stock spacing.
 
so your looking for an evo X twin scroll turbo flange to work with a 1g? Get me the turbo and I'll make it happen.

I'd be more than happy to donate a complete X turbo for other ppls benefit. As of right now I don't have a strong desire for a TS stock frame turbo, but in the future I might. If you get enough ppl that want one, lemme know and I'll ship the parts for r&d.

Intake setup is really easy. Also as you can see in my pictures I didn't use a spacer. And for first couple days after install i used the factory intake. Being reverse rotation doesn't make it more exspensive to rebuild as internally its the same as any tdo5 turbo. Currently there are alot of upgrades for it as well. Whether the external size of aftermarket cold side ade larger or not idk yet.
Either way if its bottom mount, top mount, forward facing doesn't matter, fitting either one will require custom tubular manifold as did mine. Good builder with a teat should be able to make one fit in stock spacing.

True, I remember u chimed in on my original 8/9 thread. Your manifold does look really good. I'm referring to keeping the turbo in its stock orientation (obviously one can do whatever works, as you've done) so a top mount could keep it "looking" correct, but would still be spendy.

As for parts, most of the td05hr turbines/compressors are about 50% more than standard td05h parts. As far as rebuild kits, the cost difference is negligible. We're I to build one, id be getting a 9 blade turbine and ext. tip billet 20g wheel with the "11.5 cm^2" turbine housing, so that parts list goes up quick. Even a stock 8/9 could do very well, as has been proven, I just see the X turbo being a better overall option for most ppl. Build a bastard/down firing 20g dsm chra, then slap an X turbine housing on, and wth the right manifold,all the dsm lines/fittings should bolt right up.
Mjcanada, I do like you're setup alot :thumb:
 
I'd be more than happy to donate a complete X turbo for other ppls benefit. As of right now I don't have a strong desire for a TS stock frame turbo, but in the future I might. If you get enough ppl that want one, lemme know and I'll ship the parts for r&d.

From my conversation with Emery he said that the cost of building the manifold to bolt to a TS stock frame Evo X wasn't worth it because even the Evo X version of the FP red is only good for 400-450whp on his Dyno (Mustang) I explained to him that the guys interested in this aren't looking to build drag cars or dyno queens, the goal was a solid STREETABLE quick spooling setup that's still 400ish WHP, but that conversation quickly went back to most "street car" guys not wanting to spend upwards of 2k on a twin scroll setup.

He's not wrong, and nobody that has posted so far has been. I just wanted to update you guys on what one of our vendors said on the matter.

Urbansmoker, If we can get you a turbo can you give us a solid estimate of what it might cost to build?
 
I did forget about the engine mount but its still doable and has been done before. Also the evo 8/9 can use a 9.8 10.5 or 11.5 turbine housing. I don't think the evo x turbine housing is as large as the 11.5.

The X housing is 12cm. There is no 11.5 cm OEM housing, it's just what they call the chinese knock-off housings. From what I've seen they're no bigger than the 10.5 cm.
 
So, strictly speaking horsepower vs spool wise, you guys are looking for a turbo that will make boost sub 3,500rpm and make 400whp?

I don't know if I'm missing something, or it was just never brought up but.. Couldn't this be done as simply as building a 9:1 2.3 stroker with a 68hta? Or am I missing the point totally?

A 2.3L will easily put a 68hta into boost by 3500rpm. A 68hta will easily make 400whp. All the parts are "off the shelf parts" more or less, so there would be no R&D. It's as simple as building a 2.3 with a small cam and putting a 68hta on it...


It sounds like you guys are over complicating things. Seriously. a 400hp setup that spools good on the street has been around for years.. If you really want it to spool fast, simply have a 68hta compressor wheel put on a real EVO III 16g (td05h turbine).
 
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fp red size turbo spools 600rpm faster in twin scroll form. mat not be worth it to you. but you get a hail yes from me.

You know we've been expectantly waiting for you post on this LOL If I could replicate your setup fairly easily or just over the winter (I don't like downtime in the summer) I'd be all over it.

I forget what your horsepower is with the red, but do you feel like it's maxed out? Emery implied for higher (500+whp) you'd have to leave stock frame evox turbos as well.
 
Good to know... Yeah that'd be more then enough for my setup and my goals, I'll have to do some digging and see if I can't make it happen, It's just a manifold, and the o2 setup that has to be made correct? or can you buy an o2 to fit and modify a downpipe?
 
Would you want 1.25 primaries or the standard 1.5"? Cost is varient but it won't be a ton less then emerys quote. Shit takes time and it's all custom. Porting is an extra thing and so is coating if thats wanted. Also the volume of people that want this is to be considered as well, it has to have a jig made, a collector and runners designed and has to fit in a stock setup.. So it really depends on what is actually wanted, what the goals are, and how much each person is willing to spend. There is always the one off option but usually requires car and turbo, and a larger budget.
 
I would think 1.25" primaries for this application, as most ppl are wanting that lightning spool and not worried about high hp #'s. But with the small price difference maybe ppl will want the 1.5"? I think ud see a 3-500 rpm spool difference max maybe?

Also, as for fitment I'd think most would want it positioned as close to a stock 1g/1g setup to use existing oil and water lines (at least I would). Otherwise seems like cost would skyrocket past that 1k mark quickly, as well as development needs and time.
 
The flanges are flipped on the evo IX vs the evo x turbo. If the manifold I have was remade all that would be needed to use the Evo x turbo (from I can tell) would be to use the flange for the X turbo instead of the IX turbo flange. Well for 2g owners anyways. But same concept would work for a 1G if you could find someone with a 1g using a custom manifold to run an VIII or IX turbo. I think there was someone on here that was that sold it someone else on here. Going that route would make it easier as a jig could simply made to fit an already made manifold instead of all the R&D on a test car.
 
I would think 1.25" primaries for this application, as most ppl are wanting that lightning spool and not worried about high hp #'s. But with the small price difference maybe ppl will want the 1.5"? I think ud see a 3-500 rpm spool difference max maybe?

Also, as for fitment I'd think most would want it positioned as close to a stock 1g/1g setup to use existing oil and water lines (at least I would). Otherwise seems like cost would skyrocket past that 1k mark quickly, as well as development needs and time.
I would think the spool difference would be less than 300.
 
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