Timing on 2.3 stroker

90EclipsePos · Apr 23, 2016

So I've been working on this car for a few years and never could get it running right after rebuilding the engine to a stroker motor. I recently found if I did ignition timing off of the cams it did not match the timing cover. After I adjusted the timing to the cover it ran a lot better. I'm still having issues getting my idle perfect so my big question is there a different timing I should be doing after making it a stroker? Also why can you not time to the cams like the stock motor? Any help would be great.

gofer · Apr 23, 2016

Timing doesn't change, it's possible that the outer ring on your stock crank pulley is starting to separate so it appears that the timing mark is off. That, or your mechanical timing is actually off...

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

90EclipsePos · Apr 23, 2016

Would there be any way to confirm this or is the timing being off the major sign?

OGDSM1989 · Apr 23, 2016

Fill out your profile ... we have no idea what your working with, other than its a stroker 2.3? Since there are a few different ways to achieve a 2.3 it would be nice to have an idea of what you have .... 4g64 / 4g63 etc etc ... what about tunnin ? are you running ECM / AEM / Haltech / Motech etc etc ..any of those could verify timing .....

Really get your profile in order then ask this question, until then ...its like asking a blind man if he could give you directions in your house to the $hitter

90EclipsePos · Apr 23, 2016

Alright think I've got it updated it's been so long since I've been working on this car hopefully I didn't forget to too much. I'm supposing if my timing is still off because of the crank pulley shifting that would be causing my idle to still be off. Hoping this will solve it in the mean time any other suggestions till I can get new parts ordered?

OGDSM1989 · Apr 23, 2016

Have you gone over your mechanical timing, making sure all the larks line up. Its just a 4g63 ( BSE kit ? or No ? ) other then mechanical your going to have to play the waiting game. I know it suck, I was told the motor has ARP head studs ... come to find out, not even close. Now I am playing the waiting game either to find a good deal on a set or just bite the bullet and get a set right now and wait for shipping etc etc

I would suggest that maybe you make the leap to ECM link, you already have a eprom ecu, you could switch to E-85 advance /retard timing ..etc etc tuning at its finest.

90EclipsePos · Apr 23, 2016

Yeah I've checked the mechanical timing numerous time thinking it might be off but every time it checks out. That's the reason I never out the timing cover on and just went off the cams for ignition timing. Easier to double check things till I get it running right. Want till I put it on and checked against the cover that I noticed the difference. I do plan on ECM link just as soon as I get the basics ironed out. What do you mean by BSE KIT?

OGDSM1989 · Apr 23, 2016

Balance shaft eliminator Kit ....

90EclipsePos · Apr 23, 2016

Sorry yes i did remove balance shaft

90EclipsePos · Apr 24, 2016

So my biggest question is if my crank pulley is separating my marks would be off, so doing ignition timing off the cams would be more accurate right? But why would my car run 20 times better setting ignition timing to the cover? It has me really confused. So in a perfect scenario using the adjustable light on my cams should match the cover right?

gofer · Apr 25, 2016

You need to set/verify mechanical timing first, doing so requires you to remove the crank pulley and time it with the crank sprocket. Inspect the crank pulley while it's off and see if the rubber's compromised instead of dancing around the possibility. Once you get all the timing marks lined up @ TDC and have verified the crank pulley's in good condition take a couple of pictures of the cam gears and crank sprocket and post them.

Feel free to take a picture of the backside of the crank pulley if you're unsure of it's condition.

1g Timing Belt Install

90EclipsePos · Apr 30, 2016

Ok so checked my mechanical timing yesterday. It was off. I swear it was right the last time I did it but either way I timed it again. Now my can gears match my cover which is a bonus, but I still for the life of me can not get my idle to set where it needs to be. I'm grounding both plugs and when I do my idle will drop. Then adjusting the idle screw it really doesn't want to raise my rpm. After I disconnect them and run the car it goes up to 1000 - 1200 rpms. I am also being knock up to 8 when I rev it at idle. Any suggestions?

gofer · May 1, 2016

Have you set base timing by rotating the CAS using a timing light? Should be timed to 5* BTDC while it's idling with the timing connector grounded.

90EclipsePos · May 1, 2016

Yep re checked mechanical and ignition timing everything is perfect. But for some reason I can't get my idle to drop. Boost leak is good. Throttle body was just rebuilt. Plus Steve checked all sensors on the throttle body and said they were good.

gofer · May 1, 2016

To properly adjust the BISS on a 1g you also need to ground the timing connector to the ECU as well as the diagnostic pin so the ECU has no control of the ISC and centers it. You can do both easily enough using ECMLink or you can do it manually...

1G BISS Adjustment

pauleyman · May 1, 2016

Have you considered a posible bad isc or bad isc drivers in the ecu? Did you at least check the isc resistance?

90EclipsePos · May 1, 2016

I do ground both plugs before I adjust the BISS screw when I do the idle drops to around 600-700 RPMS SO then I try to adjust the idle to 850 which is what my chip is programmed for. As soon as I disconnect the plugs and restart the car the idle is back up to around 1100-1200 RPMS. It's taking a lot of turning of the BISS screw to notice any RPM change. As far as the isc I've checked it and also just had my throttle body rebuilt at which time Steve checked the sensors also. Everything checks out fine. The ECU was also rebuilt by Motoguys and has less then 200 miles on it I have opened it recently and looked and don't notice any leaking.
Thanks again for the help guys I'm sure it's something small I'm missing but I just can't figure it out.

gofer · May 1, 2016

Have you checked the tension on the throttle cable since you've installed the rebuilt throttle body? Loosen those bolts that secure it to the IM and make sure the throttle plate's closing completely.

90EclipsePos · May 1, 2016

Yeah I did do that after the throttle body was rebuilt. Later today I will try to take some pics and videos and post if you can think of things that pics or videos would help let me know and I'll take some and post them.

gofer · May 1, 2016

Pasted from ECMLink's Wiki:

Test for proper operation of the ISC: Turn off the ignition and reset the ECU by removing battery backup power for at least 10 seconds, then restoring battery backup. Then, with the ISC unbolted from the throttle body but plugged in to the wiring harness, turn on the ignition and observe the movement of the ISC. The ISC should fully extend, then retract slightly. If the ISC just quivers a bit but doesn't really move, suspect a problem with the ISC, the driver circuits in the ECU, or the wiring. If the ISC fully retracts instead of fully extending, there is a wiring problem, perhaps a mismatch between '90 and '91+ engine harness and ISC. Using a '90 harness with a '91+ ISC, or vice versa, will cause the ISC to operate backwards.

Strange behavior can result from a bad Fast-Idle Air Valve. This is a coolant-temperature controlled air valve that provides some of the additional air needed for fast idle during engine warm-up. This valve is integral to the throttle body, so test by substitution or by blocking the FIAV passage with a block-off plate.

Other considerations
In order for the ECU to attempt to control idle speed at all requires that the ECU know that the throttle is closed. The ECU knows this by the state of the idle switch, so make sure that the idle switch is working by logging IdleSw in DSMLink/ECMLink or use DSMLink/ECMLink to simulate the operation of the idle switch. Idle surge results from the ECU being forced to limit idle speed by shutting off the injectors until the engine speed drops low enough. When the ECU re-enables the injectors, the engine speed jumps back up.

Ignition timing also has some effect on idle speed. In fact, the ECU normally varies ignition timing at idle to provide fine control over the idle speed. Make sure that base ignition timing is set properly.

If you are running a configured idle speed that's higher than stock, it's possible to observe a slight oscillation in idle speed even when everything else is working properly. This is because, by default, the timing tables in the ECU significantly advance ignition timing as the engine speed rises above 750 rpm, and engine speed tends to increase as ignition timing is advanced. You'll want to reduce this positive feedback by retarding the ignition timing at idle and slightly above idle. It also helps by giving the ECU's fine idle control mechanism more authority.

90EclipsePos · May 1, 2016

Let me do some checking the next couple of days on everything you posted. The pins on the ecu might be a possibility. I did have a 91 edu in it till I got the 90 ordered but I thought I put the pins back when I switched. But I could have screwed up and not do it. Thanks again for your help gofer. I still still get some pics and videos uploaded.

90EclipsePos · May 3, 2016

So today I tried the test with the isc I used one I had lying around from another car but it didn't extend or retract. I could feel a small click from it but that was it. I figured this would be a good test to see if my wiring was still for the 91 ecu. Next I am going to remove my isc I'm using and try it. A quick question I have is wiring colors for the isc. At one time I was going to swap to a 91 throttle body so I cut the plug wires and extended it but didn't pay attention first and realize that there is 2 red wires. I thought some one told me that it didn't matter which red went with which red. Can you confirm this or point me to the answer.

90EclipsePos · May 5, 2016

So pulled my isc today and seems to work perfect it ohms out good and also extends and retracts slightly when turning car on. Double checked my ignition timing again and all is good but the car still won't hold the idle I set it at. What else could I be missing. Is there a way to check to see if the sensor is showing closed with mmcd? I don't have ecmlink yet but plan to after I get my idle and a few other things taken care of. My TPS is set to 9.7% on the logger. So that should be right.

90EclipsePos · May 8, 2016

So I'm debating on putting in a isc from a 91 I had. One of the coils shows 63.8 ohms. I know I've read that higher ohms is okay but this is more then what I've seen others post it extends and retracts good. Any ideas if it would be alright. My stock isc still ohms out okay and extends and retracts good but just want to eliminate the possibility.

pauleyman · May 8, 2016

Are you sure you didnt test two coils at the same time?

The Top DSM Community on the Web

Timing on 2.3 stroker

90EclipsePos

gofer

90EclipsePos

OGDSM1989

90EclipsePos

OGDSM1989

90EclipsePos

OGDSM1989

90EclipsePos

90EclipsePos

gofer

90EclipsePos

gofer

90EclipsePos

gofer

pauleyman

90EclipsePos

gofer

90EclipsePos

gofer

90EclipsePos

90EclipsePos

90EclipsePos

90EclipsePos

pauleyman

Similar threads

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds