2G Soon to be DD GS not so happy...

Optiskate76 · Feb 12, 2016

So I just picked up a 1995 GS. I guess I learned my lesson, never buy a car at night. I had planned to use it as my DD shortly, but I need to iron its issues out. It was cheap and the kid obviously didn't know what he was doing. He told me it needed an O2 sensor. I took it in to get the codes read to see whether it was the up stream or down stream O2 sensor and the code reader just errored out. So I did the whole key on deal and tried to catch the blinking light as best I could. It was running noticeably rich. It also has a tendency to rev by itself after you push in the clutch while braking at say a stop sign. It revs like I blipped the throttle and it only does it once. It had a rough idle as well and an ever so slight almost imperceptible stutter some times while cruising at a constant speed. Now that said, the first time I checked the trouble codes I got that it needed a new IAT sensor. I just swapped that out, pulled the negative on the battery for a bit, put it back on, and took it for a drive. Now the stutter is much more pronounced, but it doesn't seem to be running rich. The IAT sensor was fouled for sure when I pulled it out and replaced it. It also revs up by itself much more when coming to a stop. The idle smoothed out slightly though. However the check engine light is still on and now I'm getting an issue with the MAP sensor, the EGR, and a couple other things that I cant seem to catch. I know 12 is the beginning of the codes and 55 is the end. I've caught the 14 and the 32. It is still flashing the 23 even though I replaced the IAT. I find it incredibly hard to watch the blinking lights and decipher everything though. One thing is for sure, the more I dig into the car, the more I wonder what other hill bill butch hacks I'll find in the engine bay. The airbox is disconnected, bolts missing, from where it connects on the side of the engine bay. It must have been stuffed in placed when the guy popped the hood. There appears to be some sort of sensor or something capped hanging under the air box, but I don't know what it is. The kid said at 120,000 he replaced the water pump, timing belt, tensioner, ect. I've always loved these cars, so I just want to get this thing in good running shape. Any ideas what in the hell is going on here?

Optiskate76 · Feb 12, 2016

I also appears I'm getting a 15, which from my research says its the VSS.

Optiskate76 · Feb 14, 2016

Just in case any one was interested, problem solved. I took the 2g to my dad's shop, slapped a code reader on it and it worked. No clue what the issue was with the guy at O'reilly's. The codes were MAP sensor, IAT sensor, and a P0171 basically saying that it was running too lean. When I viewed the live data stream it become apparent that the O2 sensor at the manifold was not working. When you viewed the graph, it was completely flat rather than oscillating. The down stream one didn't work right either, but it did have movement dependent on what I was doing with the throttle. So I replaced the Upstream O2. When I pulled it out, it was as fouled as the IAT sensor was. Now, the key on sequence to get the codes told me that there was an EGR issue, but the code reader said nothing about the EGR. I kind of wondered if it was sticky or had an issue still, but after replacing the O2 sensor the CEL went away and didn't come back and the car ran smooth. I'm kind of debating on whether I should delete the ERG, use the resistor trick, run a test pipe, and then simulate the downstream O2 sensor to just eliminate any emissions related failure in the future. Our cars don't have to be inspected here.

Any way, just figured I'd give you guys an update and say that all is good.

sinisa · Feb 14, 2016

my car is also has tendancy to rev up when i hit the clutch. my odometer hit 80mph and fixed there when the car starts to move so i had guessed my problem is with the vss. but i have not any chance to replace the vss. good luck with the issue, i am subscribed.

Optiskate76 · Feb 14, 2016

The funny thing is, the key on way of getting codes gives me the vss and egr errors and on a code reader I didn't get those ones at all. After replacing the O2 sensor all the codes were gone. If they were still issues I'm assuming that they'd have came back up. Thus far my issues seem to be gone. Granted I'm sure the computer still has some adapting and adjusting to do. The lI've data stream showed everything running pretty normal though. However, I'm no mechanic and my whole automotive background has been pretty much in jeeps and wheeling rigs. I didn't own a car until I was about 27. I just had a Jeep. It's a bit of a different world, so I'm still wrapping my head around the tuner stuff. That said, I'm also among those that will start replacing stuff if I think it is or could be an issue. I'd say slap your car on a code reader and see if it's really the vss. If there is still doubt, then replace it just for the hell of it.

Optiskate76 · Feb 16, 2016

I started driving my car to work, which is an hour each way. I noticed at higher speeds on the freeway it hesitates and such. Guess my issues aren't over. Everything I've pulled out thus far has been really fouled. Bet my plugs look the same way.

1990TSIAWDTALON · Feb 16, 2016

It's always a good idea to at the minimum to replace wires and plugs and check timing. Also check all fluids, belts and hoses as these cars have usually not been maintained during their life span. :thumb:

Optiskate76 · Feb 16, 2016

1990TSIAWDTALON said:
It's always a good idea to at the minimum to replace wires and plugs and check timing. Also check all fluids, belts and hoses as these cars have usually not been maintained during their life span.

Thanks for the advise. I've found that to be fairly true thus far. Actually, the more I think about it, it looks as though it may have had performance parts at one point in time and has since been returned to stock. Nuts and bolts are missing every where, things are unpluged, ect.

1990TSIAWDTALON · Feb 16, 2016

Oh that is nothing new to me. When I got this little car of mine, IF there were a nut, bolt or screw anywhere under the hood, I found out I had better get a wrench on it because ALL of them were loose or missing just to give you the idea that you are not alone my friend! Best of luck, we are here to help if possible. I have some issues that I am going to have to post up and see if someone can help me too. You're not alone! Hang in there!!!

Optiskate76 · Feb 16, 2016

1990TSIAWDTALON said:
Oh that is nothing new to me. When I got this little car of mine, IF there were a nut, bolt or screw anywhere under the hood, I found out I had better get a wrench on it because ALL of them were loose or missing just to give you the idea that you are not alone my friend! Best of luck, we are here to help if possible. I have some issues that I am going to have to post up and see if someone can help me too. You're not alone! Hang in there!!!

Sounds like we're both in the same boat. Hopefully we both get our cars running good. The community for these cars seems pretty large, which is nice. Lots of good info out there. LOL

Now if I could only get the right spark plugs, then I'd be good to go. LOL

I grabbed the wrong ones as I was in a hurry. Urgh, guess I'll be making another stop after work tomorrow. At least I got the fuel injector cleaner and plug wires right. LOL

luv2rallye · Feb 17, 2016

Optiskate76 said:
I know 12 is the beginning of the codes...

No. Code 12 is "Power to PCM was disconnected within last 50 key on cycles". Example: You would get this after disconnecting the battery.

Optiskate76 · Feb 18, 2016

Replaced the plugs last night. It's still stumbles and hesitates on on the freeway a little bit. I'm going to clean the egr and replace the map here shortly.

luv2rallye · Feb 18, 2016

You also might want to check for air leaks between the MAF, throttle body, and intake manifold. Check if hose clamps are tight. You can spray soapy water on hoses, connections, and other areas to see if idle changes or you get bubbles.

Optiskate76 · Feb 18, 2016

luv2rallye said:
You also might want to check for air leaks between the MAF, throttle body, and intake manifold. Check if hose clamps are tight. You can spray soapy water on hoses, connections, and other areas to see if idle changes or you get bubbles.

Thanks man. I'll give that a shot. Hopefully it's something simple like that. The sooner it runs at 100%, the sooner I can do fun stuff and make it pretty again

Optiskate76 · Feb 19, 2016

luv2rallye said:
You also might want to check for air leaks between the MAF, throttle body, and intake manifold. Check if hose clamps are tight. You can spray soapy water on hoses, connections, and other areas to see if idle changes or you get bubbles.

So, while cleaning my egr (which was totally filled full of junk) I noticed a vacuum line was lpose on the throttle body. It was definitely leaking. I fixed it, bur I haven't done enough driving to be able to tell if it fixed my hesitation/stumbling issue. Hopefully it did. That's the last motor issue that I'm aware of. Then it's on to cosmetic stuff.

Julio Mendoza · Feb 20, 2016

Check out your Crank Shaft Sensor

Optiskate76 · Feb 20, 2016

Julio Mendoza said:
Check out your Crank Shaft Sensor

I'll have to snag a multimeter at my dad's shop when I have time and check it. I don't think it's my provlem, but checking it doesn't hurt and it's a little extra peace of mind. I still haven't driven the car on the freeway or at higher speeds yet where it would typically stumble and hesitate, but I'm going to have lunch with a fellow tin bender in an hour, so the car will hit the freeway cold, which is when the problem rears it ugly head the most. We shall see what happens. On a side note, my CAI is here. Fun times. Thanks for the advice, next time I'm at the shop I'll give crank shafts sensor a look.

OGDSM1989 · Feb 20, 2016

Just my opinion, I would not add any mods until you get it running right, especially if it was running lean ..... thats just my two cents. If you replaced the O2 sensors you may want to see why they fouled out, leaking injector rings could cause a lean / rich problem as un metered air like bad TB gasket ...also TP sensor could be out of adjustment or leaking air. Would not be a bad idea to get a few gaskets ( Throttle body, intake manifold, maybe Injector o-rings) and give the car a good maintence overhaul oil change, radiator fill, plugs wires gaskets ... check for any air leaks in turbo to intercooler to TB etc. Better to be safe then sorry. I usually go through this procedure on all the DSM cars i have owned.

Optiskate76 · Feb 20, 2016

OGDSM1989 said:
Just my opinion, I would not add any mods until you get it running right, especially if it was running lean ..... thats just my two cents. If you replaced the O2 sensors you may want to see why they fouled out, leaking injector rings could cause a lean / rich problem as un metered air like bad TB gasket ...also TP sensor could be out of adjustment or leaking air. Would not be a bad idea to get a few gaskets ( Throttle body, intake manifold, maybe Injector o-rings) and give the car a good maintence overhaul oil change, radiator fill, plugs wires gaskets ... check for any air leaks in turbo to intercooler to TB etc. Better to be safe then sorry. I usually go through this procedure on all the DSM cars i have owned.

That is a good amount of stuff to check. I just snagged an OBDII reader for myself. I did find a huge vacuum leak and I did fix it. I'll go through and start checking what you suggested and in all reality, doing the gaskets is probably a great idea. The kid who had it before replaced the head gasket recently, which makes me wonder if that is why the o2 sensor was fouled, but the IAT sensor was also fouled badly. That's why I looked at the EGR. I cleaned that and did the shake test that I read about, but personally don't trust. I didn't really have anot her way of testing it sort of taking it to my dad's shop. The oil is fresh, I just did the plug wires myself, the upstream O2 and IAT sensors are new, new plugs, new egr gaskets, and like I said I found and fixed a bad vacuum leak. I really do appreciate all the suggestions as it will really help me not only get to know the car, but get it to a much better place. It's going to be a daily driver and I don't plan on boosting it any time soon. I just want it to run good, look nice, and sound good for the time being. Thanks man!

Optiskate76 · Feb 20, 2016

All that said, my OBDII reader says my vacuum is sitting at 13-14psi at idle. I'm right around sea level or there abouts. I've read that this could be a tad bit low. What do you guys think?

Optiskate76 · Feb 21, 2016

So aside from the above suggestions made by OGDSM1989, I've been coming up with a laundry list of things to do and/or fix. I'm up in the air on what route to go to fix all the exterior cosmetic issues. The front bumper looks like it has met many curbs. It's got to go and I'm either swapping 2gb bumpers, side skirts, and lower door caps on or going with something like a B-2/Zen body kit. I really like the 2gb stuff, but finding it is hard. The B-2/Zen kits are the only kits that are really classy that I like. Most of the rest of them are meh. Another thing on the list is to fix my cracked exhaust manifold. Lots of interior things to fix as well. The shifter is a tad bit weird. When you shift into first or second gear the shifter will eventually pop to the right a little, not out of gear or anything, but over to the position where the gear should be. You can pull the shifter too far to the left. Both driver and passenger interior door pannels need work. The door lock and window buttons are pushed down into the door pannel on the passenger side. The drivers side door pannel has been screwed down with wood screws. The rear trunk pannel works but isn't pretty. The tinting is coming off the windows. The drives seat is tan while the rest of the interior is grey. The head liner has cigarette burns in it. Im missing the inner fender part that covers the emissions stuff and under the front of the motor. All this stuff that one of the previous owners has done makes me face palm. It's not hard to fix stuff and do things right.

OGDSM1989 · Feb 22, 2016

I am not sure if you mentioned the cracked Exhaust manifold, but that is a huge issue on why O2 sensors etc are fouled. The leak is giving false readings to your O2 and will make the computer either richen or lean the fuel mixture besides it may vary timming a tad bit .... wondering where the lost measured air has went ........ I would grab a new FP manifold they can be had cheap and fix that ASAP ...... 13-14 psi at idle i dont think is to bad all things considered , all I can think is maybe the EGR is really bad, maybe a PCV issue ..... but untill the other issues are fixed I would fix one issue at a time like fix exhaust manifold then move forward .....

Optiskate76 · Feb 23, 2016

OGDSM1989 said:
I am not sure if you mentioned the cracked Exhaust manifold, but that is a huge issue on why O2 sensors etc are fouled. The leak is giving false readings to your O2 and will make the computer either richen or lean the fuel mixture besides it may vary timming a tad bit .... wondering where the lost measured air has went ........ I would grab a new FP manifold they can be had cheap and fix that ASAP ...... 13-14 psi at idle i dont think is to bad all things considered , all I can think is maybe the EGR is really bad, maybe a PCV issue ..... but untill the other issues are fixed I would fix one issue at a time like fix exhaust manifold then move forward .....

That being the case, I'll be getting a Megan Racing manifold much sooner than planned. I looked up the FP manifold and unfortunately my car is N/A and not boosted. In the big scheme of things I may mildly boost it in the future. Right now she'll stay N/A with some mild mods and be a daily driver. Just to give you some kind of idea on how much I drive for work, I spend more time in my car than I do awake at home with my my family. It sucks, but such is life. It needs to run well and be reliable because of that fact.

I'll get on the exhaust manifold as soon as I can afford to. I could weld it, but my experience with welding Jeep manifolds isn't all that great. I'd rather just buy once and cry once, except the Megan Racing stuff is pretty reasonable for the quality. I cleaned the EGR, but I didn't have a way of texting it short of taking it to my dad's shop. I did the shake test that I read about and some times you could hear a little rattling. Barely though and I'd say 75% of the time you couldn't hear anything. I have an EGR delete sitting right here on my desk. I can fix that pesky EGR. LOL

I'm going to go through the rest of the motor and start leak testing things and checking some of the other stuff that you had mentioned.

It seems every time I turn around I find something new to fix on this car. LOL

I've said it before, but it feels as though the car was once heavily modified and then returned to stock, but the more I drive it and find the more I also think it was driven my some high school kid and run into the ground as well. Probably not the guy I bought it from, but an owner previous to him. Luckily I like project. Cars are much like guns to me, once you build them, rehab them, fix them, work on them, or get to know them, then they sort of grow on me and much to my wife's dismay, I cant let them go and spend ungodly amounts of money doing what she considers to be stupid. LOL

Optiskate76 · Feb 25, 2016

All mechanical issues aside, on the cosmetic end, what do you guys think about plasti dipping? I found a source for reasonably priced front and rear bumpers. I just need to source out the side skirts. However, plasti dipping is relatively cheap and I can do some cool stuff with it. It's just not as long term of a deal as paint. What are your guys experience with it.

OGDSM1989 · Feb 26, 2016

I have never used it personally ... I did see a guy that did his rims, but they messed up when they mounted the tire's on the rims. That is the extent of my experience ...

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