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Resolved 3G ECU with Tephra Mods Evo ROM- No Spark?

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fourgsixthree33

10+ Year Contributor
1,244
45
Oct 25, 2010
Athens, Pennsylvania
I have done tons of searching over the last couple of months. I thought everything was pretty straight forward. I built a 1G shell over the last few months and last week, I was finally ready to fire it up for the first time. I bought a 3G Eclipse ECU and a patch harness that a guy used with his Evo ECU in his 1G.

I read the stock ROM off of the 3G Eclipse ECU and saved it. Then, I flashed the ECU with Tephra Mods 94170715 Evo ROM. The only adjustments I made to the ROM was the injector scaling settings as I was using FIC 1600's. I went to start the car and wasn't getting any spark. So, I unplugged the patch harness and 3G ECU and plugged in my stock 1G ECU, and the car fired up.

Since then, I have been running the car (still not driving) with RC 550's. Really trying to get to the bottom of this 3G ECU and why I am not getting spark. The stock ROM of the 3G ECU says it is a 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse ECU, in ECUflash. I was under the impression that all you had to do was flash the ECU with an Evo ROM and you were good and ready to tune.

I am confused about the whole immobilizer thing. I also assumed that the Tephra Mods Evo ROM already had the appropriate adjustments for the immobilizer, but maybe not?

Maybe there are a couple pins that are different between the 3G ECU and Evo ECU (aside from the boost control stuff)?

Is there a specific ROM that I am to use in Tephra Mods V7?
 
you will need to find out how to disable the immobilizer code entirely. the tephra roms expect you to copy your imob code into the rom before flashing.

its not hard but the exact location i do not remember off hand. consult club3g forums as it is burried in there somewhere. (do not JOIN club3g solely to ask about the imob delete, you will get flamed off the planet.)

the early 3g ECUs are nearly identical to the late 2g ECU's and starting with the evo rom is a good idea. however the no spark is the exact security feature that not having the immobilizer in place will cause.
 
what evo rom are you flashing? An EVO8 rom? If so try tephra v7: 96530706 is a good one. But all tephra's should have the immobilizer disabled. You can open it with ECUFLASH and look to see the immobilizer status. Also you changed the MAF size and scaling? Also for a 1g you might need to change the firing order I believe!
 
no spark at all makes me think immobilizer. if it sparked but ran weird or didnt run i would think firing order.

the IMOB setting MIGHT be a checkbox now, but i have seen a lot of people that kept the IMOB system functional by copying the data from their old stock rom into the tephra roms. if it was set to active and had no data you would get a no spark scenario. (like you have now, if you checked and verified you are getting no spark at all.)
 
Thanks for the replies everyone! I honestly didn't think I would get a single reply. Something about the H8 ECU users that turns everyone else away from posts like this. But, I figured it out. The immobilizer was NOT disabled in the Tephra Mod ROM (94170715).

In ECUflash at the very bottom of the index on the left, you will see a section called "Periphery" at the very bottom. In this tab, select the one labelled "(FAA)" in the name. Select that via the check box. A table will pop up and towards the bottom, you will see "for immobilizer function disable set to 0". Mine was still set at 1. So, I changed it to 0 and flashed the Evo ECU again, and the car fired up.

Which brings me to the question one of you asked about the MAF values. The car ran, I let it run for several minutes as I had to keep my foot on the throttle because it wouldn't idle on it's own. I also tried to see if the 2 Step stuff was working (previously changed the rev limiter and stationary rev limiter to a lower setting) and it did work. But, WOT didn't sound that great as the RPM's climbed to the rev limiter RPM. I had left the default MAF values that came with the Evo ROM download and wasn't expecting the car to run anywhere near right.

Today, I opened the ROM from my 2G tune when I ran the 2G Blackbox H8 ECU with CeddyMods. I transferred all of my MAF values from my 2G tune to this Evo tune for my 1G. MAF Scaling, MAF Size, and a few other things. I did not yet make any changes to the Injector Latency settings, although I would imagine they would be close as I am not using my FIC 1600's yet and I am using my old RC 550's, and I havent touched the Fuel Maps or anything else for that matter.

If the temperature is half decent tomorrow, I may run out and flash the ECU again with the new data to see if it runs any better. I will leave this thread up in hopes to further discuss this stuff, but Admin's, feel free to mark resolved if needed. There isn't a whole lot of information out there involved with the Evo/3G ECU and OUR DSM's, but I am looking to change that. I will be logging all of my progress with this stuff on my website in hopes to change that.
 
Glad it's working out! People here don't like to touch the H8 but it's really not too bad. You just need to take a few extra steps. For MAF scaling I have a 2g so not sure with the difference but attached is what i found to work best. In the early forums with evo8 swapping they said make size 260, but what I posted has worked a lot better. Also you need to change knock multipliers. The values are for : knocksum decay timer, knock multiplier low, mid, high. Your rom might have different titles/values they are all a little different. That's why i like tephra v7: 96530706 is has everything. For tuning do a google search for: merlins ecuflash evo 7-8-9 tuning guide. It's a free pdf that has all the info you'll need for injector tuning and general tuning!
 

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Oh thank God, another reply.

My MAF scaling and compensation values match yours exactly. I got mine from Knochgoon24 in a thread he replied too. I tried PMing him to get one-on-one I'm put from him as he has made posts on several of the threads I have been finding while searching.

I flashed the ECU with these MAF values and didn't notice a change. It won't idle on its own and I have to keep my foot on the throttle to keep it running. Around 2k RPM, it will run smooth. If I take my foot off the gas a little and allow the RPMs to ride a little lower, the idle raises and lowers, similar to idle surge.

When I try to rev the engine, it is very choppy and sounds like an IC pipe isn't connected.

I'd also like to add that with my stock 1G ECU in, the car idles great and sounds great.

Maybe I will try the ROM you suggested. I have only tried this 94170715 ROM. Maybe I'll have better luck with the other one with the changed MAF values.

I really appreciate your reply and hope to hear from you again soon! It's so hard to find concrete information on this. Everything is outdated and/or doesn't specifically deal with a DSM.
 
UPDATE: Tried disabling the Immobilizer (changing the value from 1 to 0 in the FAA ECU Periphery tab) and the value won't change from 1 to 0 with the 94170706 ROM. It remains at 1.

EDIT: Fixed that too. You can only change the value using the [ and ] buttons. I was doing it by using the = button, then changing the value manually to 0.
 
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No, doesn't idle smooth still. Runs like shit. With the immobilizer enabled, the car wont run at all because it kills spark.

Anyone know what all I need transferred onto the Evo ROM from the DSM ROM? Obviously the MAF scaling and compensation. What about timing maps? Fuel maps? I was thinking maybe we have to transfer everything from a CeddyMods ROM to the Evo ROM.

StanleyDSM, I WILL get to the bottom of this. I will be posting every last helpful detail on my website and on here as I go to help everyone else that decides to try the Evo 8 ECU in their DSM.
 
No, doesn't idle smooth still. Runs like sh**. With the immobilizer enabled, the car wont run at all because it kills spark.

Anyone know what all I need transferred onto the Evo ROM from the DSM ROM? Obviously the MAF scaling and compensation. What about timing maps? Fuel maps? I was thinking maybe we have to transfer everything from a CeddyMods ROM to the Evo ROM.

StanleyDSM, I WILL get to the bottom of this. I will be posting every last helpful detail on my website and on here as I go to help everyone else that decides to try the Evo 8 ECU in their DSM.
I hope you do man, because it's a good tuning device. Just gotta figure out the bugs for our dsms. Hey I'm gonna pm you about something if thats okay?
 
attached is a rom i'm using maybe try that. Make sure you change the injector size and scaling!! Let me know how it works! It's for 91octane so real conservative. If that roms giving you issues it might be something with your injectors size/scaling

*EGR is disabled it'll give a check engine for that
 

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I hope you do man, because it's a good tuning device. Just gotta figure out the bugs for our dsms. Hey I'm gonna pm you about something if thats okay?

Yeah man, that's fine.

attached is a rom i'm using maybe try that. Make sure you change the injector size and scaling!! Let me know how it works! It's for 91octane so real conservative. If that roms giving you issues it might be something with your injectors size/scaling

*EGR is disabled it'll give a check engine for that

Alright sweet, I just opened this up in ECUflash and I will take a look at it once I make this reply.

EGR isn't a concern, I don't use any of that sh!t. No emissions, EGR, FIAV, IAC, PS, AC, heater core, heck I don't even use windshield wiper's in this thing. This was a full build (can be seen in my build log on here).

I crashed into a couple of tree's at 130+MPH with my 2G. Should have lost my life, I don't remember a single thing. Last thing I remember is taking sleeping medication and laying down in bed. Snapped both bones in my leg, broke a rib, had my spleen removed, and spent the next 3 weeks in the hospital. Before I left the hospital, I made plans to pick up a 1G AWD shell.

I then built the 1G from the ground up on crutches. Wire tuck, Evo ECU, battery relocation, fuse box relocation, the whole 9 yards. It kept me sane while I was in my recovery. I am finally coming around on the end of the recovery now. The 6 bolt in my 2G somehow survived and that engine is now in my 1G. First start up was about a week and a half ago.

I am going to figure out all of this Evo 8 ECU crap. It's just going to take time. There is not a whole lot of info out their on the beginning stages of using an Evo ECU in DSM's. Nothing that applies to the Tephra Mods v7 anyway, the information that is available is spotty. With guys like yourself, I will get there. I will try your ROM and post back! Thanks a ton man. Really appreciate your reply.
 
UPDATE: I tried your ROM, BostonGST. Not really any change. It may have ran a tad bit smoother, but no much different. Still sounds like an IC pipe is disconnected when I rev it up. Still have to keep my foot on the throttle.

Is there any physical changes I need to make? Obviously my firing order is fine, it runs. I would imagine if the firing order needed to be reverse, the car wouldn't start at all. What about the fuel injector plugs?

I am using RC 550's and have adjusted my scaling to 513 and also adjusted my latencies. Unless my values are way way off, I don't see this being my issue. At this point, I am certain there is something mechanical going on. Wiring, firing order, something like that. Any ideas??

Attached is a log I took just now. Also, the video below is what the car sounds like. Pay close detail to when I rev it up. I also attached the exact ROM that I just tried. Basically, BostonGST's ROM with fuel injector adjustments.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.
 

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Do you have a wideband? And if you look at the log the 02 sensor values never change, they should be fluctuating. Maybe bad 02?

Also pretty sure you have to change firing order too. Not sure on how the effects will be but i've heard it a lot when looking into the evo8 swap. Do a google search and there's a lot of threads on it: "Try changing your firing order. The evo's are reversed from the 1G." was from http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ecuflash/436196-evo8-ecu-1g-dsm-works-26.html

But there's a lot more threads that say you need to change it on a 1g

And glad to help out man I was in the same spot a few months ago. Real spotty info everywhere and I had to do a lot of digging and trial and error so glad to help someone out!!!
 
Do you have a wideband? And if you look at the log the 02 sensor values never change, they should be fluctuating. Maybe bad 02?

Also pretty sure you have to change firing order too. Not sure on how the effects will be but i've heard it a lot when looking into the evo8 swap. Do a google search and there's a lot of threads on it: "Try changing your firing order. The evo's are reversed from the 1G." was from http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ecuflash/436196-evo8-ecu-1g-dsm-works-26.html

But there's a lot more threads that say you need to change it on a 1g

And glad to help out man I was in the same spot a few months ago. Real spotty info everywhere and I had to do a lot of digging and trial and error so glad to help someone out!!!

Thanks again for the reply.

A friend suggested that I try the Evo firing order (1342). It made sense to have to change the firing order with this ECU. So I tried it and it didn't work. The car struggled to start and barely ran. So, I tried the reverse from the Evo firing order (2431) and was netted with the same results. So, I tried 3214. Same thing. Went back to the 4123 and it fired right up, but still ran like it did in the above video.

What firing order are you using? I am obviously using my 1G CAS.

The front o2 is not connected. I still have my 2G o2 sensor in my o2 housing so I'll either need to remove it and install the 1G o2 sensor or somehow wire up my 2G o2 sensor to the 1g pigtail on the harness. The car should still run fine in open loop. I've had dead o2 sensors in the past and the car ran OK for the most part although my wideband readings were all over the place.

I do have a wideband for this car too but that is also not hooked up yet. I don't even have my downpipe connected yet. The engine runs and sounds awesome with the stock 1g ECU. I will dive into the firing order stuff and see if I can find something out.

Also, I did mess around with the injector wires, swapping them around to a few different variations. No change.
 
It's weird it works with the 1G ECU and now not with the evo. When I reflash my rom it takes maybe 20 min for the ECU to 'learn' and have my idle perfect, it will dip low and bounce back a little when neutral but after that 20min it never has a problem again until i reflash and it has to 'relearn'. But in the vid your tps is up so you are having to give it gas. So im not sure, i'd suggest looking more into the firing and then put it all together with the downpipe and a working 02. It may be the 02 bc when my wideband that i'm using to simulate front 02 had grounding issues my car would run weird. And I didn't change anything with the firing order but I have a 2G! It's usually a good thing to get it all together so you can start isolating variables that might be causing the issues.

And if you don't give it any gas it dies? Also if it doesn't die let it run for 16min and look into injector tuning in that merlin's pdf i mentioned, you can see if the injectors are scaled right
 
It's weird it works with the 1G ECU and now not with the evo. When I reflash my rom it takes maybe 20 min for the ECU to 'learn' and have my idle perfect, it will dip low and bounce back a little when neutral but after that 20min it never has a problem again until i reflash and it has to 'relearn'. But in the vid your tps is up so you are having to give it gas. So im not sure, i'd suggest looking more into the firing and then put it all together with the downpipe and a working 02. It may be the 02 bc when my wideband that i'm using to simulate front 02 had grounding issues my car would run weird. And I didn't change anything with the firing order but I have a 2G! It's usually a good thing to get it all together so you can start isolating variables that might be causing the issues.

And if you don't give it any gas it dies? Also if it doesn't die let it run for 16min and look into injector tuning in that merlin's pdf i mentioned, you can see if the injectors are scaled right

Did a little searching.

I found a few people saying the firing order needs changed to the Evo firing order. Also people telling others to reverse the DSM firing order (3214). And....found people saying it doesn't need to be changed. This is pretty much what happens when I search anything related to the Evo ECU in DSM's.

There are several different combinations between 1g/2g, type of CAS, type of MAF/SD, etc. It's hard to decipher what applies to my setup and what does not.

Found one thread where a 3G guy (on EvoM) said some of the 3G guys need to change the trigger wheel in their CAS to a smaller size or something when swapping an older engine into a newer car. Also, pretty sure that doesn't relate to me and my stuff.

The reason my exhaust isn't connected yet is because I might have to remove the oil pan to fix the drain hole (stripped) or change pans all together. Plus I still need to install my t-case, axles, and driveshaft. The weather is going to be pretty crappy for the next week or more so I'm not sure how much I will be able to work on the car since I don't have a garage.

One thing I was paironoid about was maybe some pins are different between the 3G ECU and the Evo ECU. Searched that stuff before too, again ended up getting spotty info. Most guys that have problems and end up finding their patch harness needed some pins switched, had bigger problems like no spark, no fuel, etc. I am confident that the 3G ECU pins are the same with the exception of the boost solenoid stuff. But, it's also worth looking in to. I have spark, fuel, etc so I'd imagine if a pin was wrong, I'd have bigger issues.

Maybe for whatever reason, the Evo ECU relies on the front o2 sensor way more than the 1g ECU does, thus giving me the misfire. That too seems like a stretch.

It's below 0 here in NEPA, and won't be above freezing much over the next several days. As soon as it gets a little better out temperature wise, maybe I will mess with my o2 sensor. Until then, I guess I will just keep searching away. Surely someone has had the same issue somewhere along the line.
 
yeah not sure what the problem is, can be real frustrating especially with no clear info out there. But it will for sure be worth it when it's all figured out!! Feel free to pm me any time

Yeah, it's definitely frustrating man. But I'm not giving up. It's gotta be something dumb. I really appreciate all your help! You have been super helpful! I'll probably drop you a PM at some point.
 
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