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1G 16g +12psi on stock fuel system

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Freddyk79

Proven Member
176
4
Mar 18, 2015
menomonee falls, Wisconsin
'91 GST. Stock fuel system. No DSM link or safc

I recently found that turbo lab will upgrade my 14b to a 16/20g for ~$240. My question is:

Can I run a 16/20g safely on a stock fuel system + tune? Or does my 14b max it out.

Honestly I don't feel like investing $1000+ for fuel and tune. If a 16g isn't safe on stock fuel system I'll jus stick with the 14b n drive it.
 
Good info above,

I ran a 16g with 14b wastegate starting with stock 8psi (creeping to almost 16-18psi stock exh) went thermal cat back, ported o2 and flapper, slowly went to 14psi ish with 90 - 97% IDC (depending on outside temp) and 0 knock. This was with factory tune.

My recommendation would be to go ahead with it, but log it and see if it's safe. If you see any knock them switch to 14b wastegate And slowly add boost so you know your safe.

Go panthers!
 
I'd stay with the 14b until you can afford fuel and tuning. When you get the 16g you're going to want to turn the boost up to hit that 'sweet spot'. Although there's only a tiny bit of difference in spool, the 14b does come on earlier and will feel better at lower PSI. You'll definitely notice the difference.
 
I ran 18 pound on a 16G on my stock eclipse 2G, If i kept it going, it would be fine except for black smoke, however If i shifted into the next gear and didn't step on the gas, like hesitated just for 2 seconds the engine would just die, I'm guessing to much air not enough gas. So you definitely need injectors. Other wise you will have my problem I lowered to boost to 12 psi but it would take the 16G forever to spool up 12, I would lose to stock 14B tubor's all the time. That's my advice from when I was 18 and stupid.
 
You losing to 14b's and you car dying was a tuning issue not a turbo issue. Anyways get the proper set up before you get the 16g. At the very least I would have a 255 fuel pump, 880 injectors at minimum, a fuel pressure regulator, and dsmlink. And obviously a wideband, boost gauge, and boost controller.
 
You losing to 14b's and you car dying was a tuning issue not a turbo issue. Anyways get the proper set up before you get the 16g. At the very least I would have a 255 fuel pump, 880 injectors at minimum, a fuel pressure regulator, and dsmlink. And obviously a wideband, boost gauge, and boost controller.

Agree with the first, strongly disagree with the second. He says he does NOT want to spend 1000+ on a fuel system and is only seeking whether or not he can run a 16g at low boost with the mods he currently has. which is the answer is YES you can, but I strongly recommend an aftermarket boost gauge and wideband. (as you suggested jakk)

I am building a conservative 350-375whp car with a rewired 190 and 850cc injectors and a 68hta at 25psi and I won't even be maxing the 850s out.

I'd stay with the 14b until you can afford fuel and tuning. When you get the 16g you're going to want to turn the boost up to hit that 'sweet spot'. Although there's only a tiny bit of difference in spool, the 14b does come on earlier and will feel better at lower PSI. You'll definitely notice the difference.

Mech is absolutely right, the 14b will feel better at lower psi, I have dealt with this with 2 separate cars and while the 16g is much more fun around 20psi it also requires more mods to support it. Also being FWD with my 5spd FWD laser when i swapped to a 16g I ran 15psi and would spin the tires off the car in 1st and 2nd, it sounds fun, but was useless in a race or trying to move quickly.
 
Very rarely do dsmer's slap a 16g on a car and put it on low boost and say "yeah that's enough power". More than likely he is going to want to turn the boost up. Because spending the money to convert to a 16g is just about useless if you want to run low boost. Considering he's going un-tuned he isn't going to benefit enough for getting a 16g to be worth it. Which is why if he upgrades to the 16g he should follow that mod list.

If he plans on making more power in the future, then his money is better spent getting the car ready for more boost before he gets a bigger turbo. No sense in getting any smaller injectors then 880 because again, in my eyes its just not worth the money and leaves room for more fuel. Unless of course the injectors are given to you for free... like the 880's I have now that I traded mecheng my 660s for because he was selling them anyway and they go for about the same price LOL.
 
Very true, but not everyone continually wants more and more power, I had the same issue a few months ago when I had to tear my car apart and had an FP green laying around and wasn't quite ready to upgrade the system yet. It is important to figure out what the OP is seeking for power goals, it isn't necessarily always what WE would personally aim to achieve, but all we can do is try to provide solid advice based on personal experience.
 
'91 GST. Stock fuel system. No DSM link or safc

I recently found that turbo lab will upgrade my 14b to a 16/20g for ~$240. My question is:

Can I run a 16/20g safely on a stock fuel system + tune? Or does my 14b max it out.

Honestly I don't feel like investing $1000+ for fuel and tune. If a 16g isn't safe on stock fuel system I'll jus stick with the 14b n drive it.

Assuming your car is completely stock, a turbo upgrade is a poor idea without the mods to support it. If done correctly, supporting mods for a turbo upgrade will exceed fuel and a tune, and quite possibly the $1,000 investment you're determined to avoid. In short, bolting on a 16g as the first and only modification to the car is a bad idea.

You's be much better off taking that $240 and putting it toward entry level modifications that will help support a turbo upgrade in the future. Think of it this way: You'll get better performance out of a 14b with $240 bucks worth of supporting mods than you will a 16g with zero supporting mods.

On an unrelated note, fill out your profile when you have a chance. It makes it easier for other members to help answer your questions: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/welcome-to-dsmtuners-now-go-create-a-dsm-profile.499707/
 
Wow I haven't checked into this thread in a while here, great answers guys!

I do have a boost gauge + boost controller on my car. Wideband is next, then link.

Since turbolab basically told me no thanks on upgrading my turbo that's on the back burner for now. Until I decide on a fuel system upgrade.

Being a fwd I don't plan on ever going for more then 300hp anyhow.

Not to thrilled about dropping the tank for a fuel pump swap either.

I'll fill out my profile, now that I actually have a car of my own. Thanks guys.
 
well my friend im running a 16g with all the bolt on, on stock fuel an im hitting fuel cut at about 16-17 psi. by the way I have a fuel system to support way more than a 16 but im just too lazy to put it on right now haha
 
well my friend im running a 16g with all the bolt on, on stock fuel an im hitting fuel cut at about 16-17 psi. by the way I have a fuel system to support way more than a 16 but im just too lazy to put it on right now haha

Fuel Cut isn't an issue with the fuel system, it's the ECU turning off the injectors because the measured airflow exceeds the programmed value designed to protect the engine if the wastegate line pops off. Boost leaks are the typical first cause, followed by turning the boost way up. 16-17 psi isn't far enough by itself from what I remember even with a 16g on a 2G. ECU changes are required to eliminate it, once you mod the car past that airflow limit.
 
Just a question about running that much boost,

Just because you don't hit fuel cut doesn't mean it's safe right? If I remember correctly when I had 15psi on my big 16g I had anywhere between 3-10 counts of knock at 5K, so I back it down until I had 0-1. Logging will make sure it's safe to do. Now I don't know how much knock is ok, as I am getting into tuning soon I have been reading you want 0 counts. But 1-3 is ok?

Not trying to thread just though more info was good for this thread.
 
16-17 psi isn't far enough by itself from what I remember even with a 16g on a 2G. ECU changes are required to eliminate it, once you mod the car past that airflow limit.

https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/maffrequencylimits

ECM Tuning says the 2g MAF is good to about 50 lbs/min. That's more than I've ever seen any 16g flow, even when being maxed out. No way 16 or 17 psi should come even remotely close to hitting fuel cut.
 
It's the injectors that get out flown. So the ecu cuts before damage can be done. It's all about the ecu tuning and what it's setup to read and run at. When I had my 190 rewired and still on stock 450's I couldn't boost more than 15-16 on my 16g without cut. Once I got link and 550's I was all G. Was even better once I switched to 850's had plenty to max that turbo out. Never hit fuel cut again ;) and still running a 2g maf and logging 36-37lb/min.
 
I have a complete fuel system for a 20g on e85 to run 25 psi, and I didnt spend 1k. Right now you can get a fpr for 160ish, 100 for walbro 450 e85, and find a set 600 injectors for like 120 on the classifieds.
 
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