Excellent, now put on your silver toung and call Forced Performance and talk them into accepting your setup as a prototype and get them to design and cast a new manifold to accept Evo X turbo's. Seriously, talk about breathing new life into these cars.

If a vendor offered a nice cast manifold and kit to do the swap, as soon as I pull my Talon out of it's slumber I would so introduce my MHI Evo III setup to e-bay.

no one selected. I have idea in my head. dont know how much work or what it would cost till I execute.

I'll test it out!
I'm a true believer in twin-scroll technology, it will be on the next setup that goes on my car.

turbotalon1g said:

I'll test it out!
I'm a true believer in twin-scroll technology, it will be on the next setup that goes on my car.

Click to expand...

[Sarcasm] But...but...twin-scroll doesn't work. [/Sarcasm]

Obviously there's already a growing line of people willing to test this out, but if it makes a difference, I'm in a fairly stock 2g AWD Auto. We need all the help we can get down low on the street. I was just going to rebuild a 14b and put a 7cm^2 exhaust housing on it, but I'd gladly send some cash your way to try out this manifold. PM me if you're interested.

kronus said:

Obviously there's already a growing line of people willing to test this out, but if it makes a difference, I'm in a fairly stock 2g AWD Auto. We need all the help we can get down low on the street. I was just going to rebuild a 14b and put a 7cm^2 exhaust housing on it, but I'd gladly send some cash your way to try out this manifold. PM me if you're interested.

Click to expand...

^ Couldn't go to a nicer guy, either. My vote is for Kronus because he's OG and will give an educated, non-biased review/experience.

turbotalon1g said:

I'll test it out!
I'm a true believer in twin-scroll technology, it will be on the next setup that goes on my car.

Click to expand...

I will be as well when I get some cash flow. honestly probably late next year... call it a winter project.

got something for you twin scroll people and for those that are skeptical of the twin scroll evo turbos. Wanted to post something and show the difference between the ever loved Holset and a stock Evo 7 turbo VD. These VD's are taken at the same time, in the same city (virtually same road). Notice 140+ ftlbs of torque the stock Evo 7 turbo makes over the beloved holslut HX40 in twin scroll format!

JDM Evo 7 (blue)
-MAP short runner tubular manifold
-stock evo 7 turbo w/10.5 hosted
-ECU boost controlled, made 25 psi at 3600, however lag was purposely induced to protect the rods and did not hit 30 PSI until 4500 (so with a built engine could make 30-40 ft-lb more in the 3700-4300 RPM range)
-GSC S1 cam
-MAP rev3 intake w/70mm throttle body
-ETS intercooler kit w/garret 3.8" core
-fully mapped on ECUflash
-stock bottom end, stock head

JDM Evo 3 (red)
-JMF top mount T4 twin scroll manifold
-Holset HX40 7-blade w/.84 garret turbine housing
-spooled to 20 psi at 4300 RPM, and made 26 psi, full boost just under 5K (its important to note this car put down 472 on the VD in another graph, this particular run was cut short FYI, but does show the power delivery differences)
-Treadstone vertical flow intercooler (was not nearly enough intercooler....needed a more efficient setup, but probably could have broke 500 on this setup if the owner wanted to push it harder)
-FP2 cams
-bored .040 over, scat rods, mahle pistons, 8.5 to 1 compression, stage 3 port job on head
-evo 3 intake manifold
-63MM overbored TB
-Fully mapped on ECMlink

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

26psi at full boost on an HX40? LMFAO. That turbo doesn't even wake up at 25psi.

CrackedDSM said:

^ Couldn't go to a nicer guy, either. My vote is for Kronus because he's OG and will give an educated, non-biased review/experience.

Click to expand...

WOW! That is quite an endorsement! Thank you very much! But really, you could benefit from this as well, I'd say. Not that the 5-spd guys don't need more power under the curve, but I honestly think a before and after comparison would be best served by someone with a slushbox. So Cracked or Kronus are my votes!

kronus said:

WOW! That is quite an endorsement! Thank you very much! But really, you could benefit from this as well, I'd say. Not that the 5-spd guys don't need more power under the curve, but I honestly think a before and after comparison would be best served by someone with a slushbox. So Cracked or Kronus are my votes!

Click to expand...

I would if I had more time to dedicate to it. I'm moving from FL to NC quite suddenly[flight leaves sunday], and don't have time or money to dedicate to the DSM for quite awhile. Test it out and let me know how it is.

GST with PSI said:

26psi at full boost on an HX40? LMFAO. That turbo doesn't even wake up at 25psi.

Click to expand...

LMFAO you can't read. We could have pushed it to 28-30 psi and broke 500, however owner didn't want to push it at that point since we were running out of intercooler on pump gas. Even at 30+ PSI at 500+ WHP it would not change the power delivery up to 5K...and that is the point for those that value spool and power delivery with the evo turbos.

I read just fine, actually.

What exactly is anyone reading this thread supposed to take away from your virtual dyno sheet (not to be confused with an ACTUAL dyno sheet). As if posting dyno sheets alone wasn't worthless enough as the basis of an internet pissing contest, you go and post one derived from a glorified Excel spreadsheet. Again, LMFAO. Clearly, you didn't read the fine print:

About Virtual Dyno said:

This program calculates the HP/TQ for a given datalog. It is an estimated HP/TQ and not what would be expected from a dyno. Use this program for comparison purposes and testing purposes only.

Click to expand...

All I see is you making comparisons between 2 completely different cars with completely different setups. What are you really trying to say? That a little Evo 7 turbo spools faster than a TS HX40? Well, I'll be damned, who woulda guessed

GST with PSI said:

I read just fine, actually.

What exactly is anyone reading this thread supposed to take away from your virtual dyno sheet (not to be confused with an ACTUAL dyno sheet). As if posting dyno sheets alone wasn't worthless enough as the basis of an internet pissing contest, you go and post one derived from a glorified Excel spreadsheet. Again, LMFAO. Clearly, you didn't read the fine print:


All I see is you making comparisons between 2 completely different cars with completely different setups. What are you really trying to say? That a little Evo 7 turbo spools faster than a TS HX40? Well, I'll be damned, who woulda guessed

Click to expand...

VDs are "fairly" accurate when configured correctly vs a dynojet in most cases. With that being said not all dynos are created equal, so its a wash either way. The point is using the same variables and the same software you can give a good indication on how big of a difference in general (and I do use that term loosely) they are from each other when it comes to power delivery. Everyone knows that a stock Evo 7 turbo will spool faster than a TS HX40 regardless of what it is on, that's not the point. Your powers of observation are earth shattering once again, and totally miss the boat as you seem to do on most topics I have noticed. God only knows how you got your title.

mean4g said:

The point is using the same variables and the same software you can give a good indication on how big of a difference in general (and I do use that term loosely) they are from each other when it comes to power delivery.

Click to expand...

You'd think somebody trying to sway the opinions of the skeptics would actually try and make sense, no? Remind us again, which of those variables are the same between the two different cars you mentioned running two completely different setups? Aside from your pretend dyno software I see zero control variables, which pretty much renders your "comparison" lip service, IMO.

I just call things how I see them, which typically only ruffles feathers when people get hard questions they don't like. My tone may not always be the nicest, but I do my best to stick to the facts. Most of the staff here are used to some members saying things like "I can't believe you're a Wiseman/Moderator/Jesus/Etc" because blah blah blah. I can tell you one thing, I didn't get to where I'm at today by telling staff to get bent because one of them interjected with a healthy dose of factual information.

If you have an issue with a staff member, you're welcome to express your grievances here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/ha...pporting-vendor-about-a-moderator-etc.366378/

Alternatively, you can also just click the little "report" button at the bottom of this post.

If you'd like to discuss this topic, or any other in a closed forum, you're always welcome to shoot me a PM.

Just read this whole thing before bed and wow man I wish I had the knowledge to do that, but I'm working on it. Love the car man and looks phenomenal. Props like no other.

GST with PSI said:

You'd think somebody trying to sway the opinions of the skeptics would actually try and make sense, no? Remind us again, which of those variables are the same between the two different cars you mentioned running two completely different setups? Aside from your pretend dyno software I see zero control variables, which pretty much renders your "comparison" lip service, IMO.

I just call things how I see them, which typically only ruffles feathers when people get hard questions they don't like. My tone may not always be the nicest, but I do my best to stick to the facts. Most of the staff here are used to some members saying things like "I can't believe you're a Wiseman/Moderator/Jesus/Etc" because blah blah blah. I can tell you one thing, I didn't get to where I'm at today by telling staff to get bent because one of them interjected with a healthy dose of factual information.

If you have an issue with a staff member, you're welcome to express your grievances here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/ha...pporting-vendor-about-a-moderator-etc.366378/

Alternatively, you can also just click the little "report" button at the bottom of this post.

If you'd like to discuss this topic, or any other in a closed forum, you're always welcome to shoot me a PM.

Click to expand...

We both know you will make any attempt to mock and patronize anything that is said, because that is the game you play...so why BS. Quite honestly I don't have the time or inclination to explain anything to you. If it holds no value to you, then so be it.

Can we please end the pissing contest before the thread is ruined and get back on topic, all of that could have been done via PM.

mean4g said:

got something for you twin scroll people and for those that are skeptical of the twin scroll evo turbos. Wanted to post something and show the difference between the ever loved Holset and a stock Evo 7 turbo VD. These VD's are taken at the same time, in the same city (virtually same road). Notice 140+ ftlbs of torque the stock Evo 7 turbo makes over the beloved holslut HX40 in twin scroll format!

JDM Evo 7 (blue)
-MAP short runner tubular manifold
-stock evo 7 turbo w/10.5 hosted
-ECU boost controlled, made 25 psi at 3600, however lag was purposely induced to protect the rods and did not hit 30 PSI until 4500 (so with a built engine could make 30-40 ft-lb more in the 3700-4300 RPM range)
-GSC S1 cam
-MAP rev3 intake w/70mm throttle body
-ETS intercooler kit w/garret 3.8" core
-fully mapped on ECUflash
-stock bottom end, stock head

JDM Evo 3 (red)
-JMF top mount T4 twin scroll manifold
-Holset HX40 7-blade w/.84 garret turbine housing
-spooled to 20 psi at 4300 RPM, and made 26 psi, full boost just under 5K (its important to note this car put down 472 on the VD in another graph, this particular run was cut short FYI, but does show the power delivery differences)
-Treadstone vertical flow intercooler (was not nearly enough intercooler....needed a more efficient setup, but probably could have broke 500 on this setup if the owner wanted to push it harder)
-FP2 cams
-bored .040 over, scat rods, mahle pistons, 8.5 to 1 compression, stage 3 port job on head
-evo 3 intake manifold
-63MM overbored TB
-Fully mapped on ECMlink

Click to expand...

So you are using a hardly accurate VD to compare a car that has an efficient setup, to one that has mismatched parts?

I can't be the only one that finds this comparison absolutely useless.

Sorry I didn't mean to start people begging for you to sell them a prototype setup.

i have an evox turbo on hand, and i was contemplating after the evo 8 setup i have is finished, trying a tubular manifold mash for the evox setup like yours. i was looking at the X turbine vs a 14b turbine, and the blade height (axially) looks alot shorter on the X turbine wheel. i actually attempted to insert the 14b into the X turbine housing, but it bound on the exducer radius. this could be due to the housing having a couple flaws (the stock X housing is a joke, and horribly made IMHO) but i will try to get some pics comparing measurements.

the issue ive found, is when looking for turbine wheels, the evox and dsm wheels seem to have the same applications. I.E.- when i look up an X wheel, it says it will work with any of them, save reverse rotation evo 4-9.

i was contemplating building an X based 20g with a hybrid tubular manifold and the aftermarket X turbine housing, but dont know if it will all fit. maybe justin can chime in with some more info on the x?

I have used the X center section in a 14b turbo. the x turbine fit fine inside the 6cm housing. they are both 5h wheels so I dont know what you got going on. maybe pics would help.

94awdcoupe said:

I have used the X center section in a 14b turbo. the x turbine fit fine inside the 6cm housing. they are both 5h wheels so I dont know what you got going on. maybe pics would help.

Click to expand...

Yes on that not it would work for me as well. A 14b hot side fits the X housing just fine, there is a slight amount of excess wheel gap to the housing tho. Thebother way around tho, X hotside on 14b center section, no go.

I'll try and get some pics today, if I can get them to upload. unfortunately my calipers are at work so I'll do my best for comparison.

you can put a 14b in the X housing. but you have to switch heat shields first. the X shield is smaller with a taper to it. the X housing isnt clearanced for the 14b/16g shield. the exhaust wheels are the same dimensions. both are 5H.

94awdcoupe said:

you can put a 14b in the X housing. but you have to switch heat shields first. the X shield is smaller with a taper to it. the X housing isnt clearanced for the 14b/16g shield. the exhaust wheels are the same dimensions. both are 5H.

Click to expand...

the heat shields yes i agree and was aware of
I would be absolutely tempted to agree with you on the rest of it, especially given your hands on experience. But unless I've got some other setup here, maybe a genesis turbo? (Idk why someone would put one on an X, as I personally pulled this turbo off the car) the physical evidence says otherwise. i do also thing this X hotside it damaged or factory flawed, as it looks like crap.
I got some pics but I'm uploading from my phone, since my computer "upgraded" to windows 10, i can no longer upload files from my hard drive. Ein moment, bitte


edit: i got some pics and got my computer to work, here they are. theyre not great but get the general idea across.

14b on left, evoX on right

evoX exducer diameter

overlayed onto the 14b exducer

evoX inducer

14b inducer, they are the same

full blade height is the same as well, hence no evoX picture

rough visual comparison

evoX inducer blade height

overlayed onto 14b, significant inducer blade height difference. the marks are very minor on the wheel

evoX hotside

cracks are hard to see, but the hump in the middle and the circle above it are bad. it is a clear hole all the way through.

another crack next to the wastegate from the o2 housing side

X hotside "on" the 14b, not even close to enough room for the wheel, its actually sitting about 1/2" above the CHRA

14b hotside on the evoX center section. way too much gap.

note: i didnt swap the shields for these pics, just wanted to show the differences of what i have. it makes me wonder if the genesis turbos are the same as the X, and for some reason this one was swapped on as a temp. i did drive the car before buying and removing the turbo, and it was just fine as far as performance was concerned, tho it is only the second X ive been in, the other i only rode in with minor bolts ons and a tune. they felt very comparable.