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Evo 1 Gsr Awd Lsd Transmission In 2g

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you guys are all talking about maybe a 10-20% increase in fatigue strength you need a 200% increase to make these things live. It's just not gonna happen.
I am confident this tranny build will handle all the torque my setup can dish out I can't wait I am getting close. II am excited!
 
I am confident this tranny build will handle all the torque my setup can dish out I can't wait I am getting close. II am excited!
Depends how much you drive your car. If you drive the car everyday, and do full power 3-4 pulls at least a few times a week, you can probably get a year or a little longer out of it.

Lots of back to back 3-4 pulls, and it's a roll of the dice.

The different processes do increase the cycles to failure, they don't eliminate failure.
 
Depends how much you drive your car. If you drive the car everyday, and do full power 3-4 pulls at least a few times a week, you can probably get a year or a little longer out of it.

Lots of back to back 3-4 pulls, and it's a roll of the dice.

The different processes do increase the cycles to failure, they don't eliminate failure.
This is reasonable more so than its going to break as soon as you get on it as some claim LOL
 
Oh ok kelaton just curious after we spoke about the treatments you do and for my next rebuild I like the information.
Vick I am pretty confident that what Jon did for you transmission will last you for a good minute remember he upgraded your 3/4 gear hub slider to the hd unit. But if you should ever need me to get on it you know I will!
 
Yes he said it so fast when I picked it up so yes he really hooked me up for my birthday so I'm really excited gonna put the transmission in in the next two days then I'm ready for break In my engine and transmission.
 
Yes the transmission case can be treated contrary to what was stated in this thread earlier.

Building the Bulletproof Transmission, Secrets of the Pros

Mike Kojima posted on May 15, 2009 15:40

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WPC treatment leaves a hard, smooth lustrous surface on the gears. WPC reduces heat and friction, saving power and greatly increases the strength of a part. It also aids the syncros, helping them grip better, thereby smoothing and speeding shifting.
Finally we finish the gears with WPC Processing. For details on how WPC works check [URL='http://www.motoriq.com/MagazineArticles/tabid/59/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/17/Special-Treatment-Part-1-All-you-wanted-to-know-about-WPC.aspx']Here!
[/URL]
[URL='http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/839/PageID/931/Building-the-Bulletproof-Transmission-Secrets-of-the-Pros.aspx#'][URL='http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/839/PageID/931/Building-the-Bulletproof-Transmission-Secrets-of-the-Pros.aspx#']WPC is a Japanese process where the parts are hit with very small, very hard spherical ceramic and metallic dry lubricant elements at ultra high speeds. WPC leaves a very fine, hard, wear resistant and low friction surface finish which has superior grain refinement and development of compressive stress at a shallower depth when compared to shotpeening, of about one thousands of an inch. WPC can also be applied to delicate parts and gets easily to the bottom of gear teeth and shaft spline roots. WPC greatly reduces friction and heat build up which is often a problem in cars driven on road courses and reduces power loss through the drive train. WPC can also be applied to delicate parts of a transmission like syncros without harming them. WPC has no negative side effects and greatly strengthens, increases life and reduces friction on parts. WPC usually also results in a 100% or greater improvement in fatigue strength with improvements in surface hardness and tensile strength as well. bastard dsm there goes your 10j to 20% theory that is why the fwd unit is holding up well.
[URL='http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/839/PageID/931/Building-the-Bulletproof-Transmission-Secrets-of-the-Pros.aspx#']
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[URL='http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/839/PageID/931/Building-the-Bulletproof-Transmission-Secrets-of-the-Pros.aspx#']
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[URL='http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/839/PageID/931/Building-the-Bulletproof-Transmission-Secrets-of-the-Pros.aspx#']A closer view of WPC treated gears shows the lustrous finish imparted on the parts. WPC helps strengthen the shafts even in the area of the splines.
[URL='http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/839/PageID/931/Building-the-Bulletproof-Transmission-Secrets-of-the-Pros.aspx#']With our test transmission pictured here, we used the WPC process on the gears, shafts, shift forks, sift fork shafts, shift mechanisms, syncros (where it helps syncros grip, smoothing and speeding shifts) and on the plates of our transmissions limited slip differential where it makes the differential action smoother and causes the LSD to create less heat. Finally we WPC treated our transmission case. This helps stiffen the case and makes it less likely to flex, yield and stretch. This flexing of the case causes the gears to spread apart under load to where the gears don’t mesh correctly weakening them.
[URL='http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/839/PageID/931/Building-the-Bulletproof-Transmission-Secrets-of-the-Pros.aspx#']
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[URL='http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/839/PageID/931/Building-the-Bulletproof-Transmission-Secrets-of-the-Pros.aspx#']We WPC treated the shift shafts, shift forks and the shifter mechanism. This greatly smoothed the shifting action and strengthened the wear and failure prone shift forks.
[URL='http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/839/PageID/931/Building-the-Bulletproof-Transmission-Secrets-of-the-Pros.aspx#']
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[URL='http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/839/PageID/931/Building-the-Bulletproof-Transmission-Secrets-of-the-Pros.aspx#']
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[URL='http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/839/PageID/931/Building-the-Bulletproof-Transmission-Secrets-of-the-Pros.aspx#']WPC treatment of the transmission case stiffens it and prevents the case from stretching. This helps keep the gears in mesh. The gears pulling apart really can cause them to fail. WPC can be applied directly on all surfaces of the case, even in bearing and seal areas
[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]
 

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If the cases don't fail, why treat them?

My statement isn't a theory, and you take a lot of information out of context. think about it, it's a surface treatment, how is it going to double the strength of the gears, when 99% of the strength comes from the core.
 
If the cases don't fail, why treat them?

My statement isn't a theory, and you take a lot of information out of context. think about it, it's a surface treatment, how is it going to double the strength of the gears, when 99% of the strength comes from the core.
Whether you know it or not the cases are flexing. they don't have to fail, this cause the gears to spread therfore they are not catching the thick part of the gear leading to failure. As far as strengthening its the compression of the meatal that keep the crack from forming other words The crack never have a chance to get started! This way the core can do its job without a hidden weakness.
 
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Blah Blah Blah Go stand in a mirror and repeat what you just said above and come back and tell me how you looked saying it, it just save me from saying it besides admission is the first step to recoveryROFL That's what they said About my fwd tranny i wpc treated it and its still holding up 809whp over 600ftlbs torque and the awd tranny suppose to be stronger according to the gurus LOL! By the way post another thread where another dsmer or guru wpc treated an awd drive tranny and it broke and I will delete this post.. Guess what you will not find one not by shep, buschur, tre, twick, jack, none of them quit being so narrow minded , this is the same mind set that has lead to the reason the dsm brand us dying out! shep and those other shops stop doing dsm trannies because they can make more money on gtr trannies not because they have wpc treated one of ours and it broke those guyss reason we got to feed our families thats why they stopped they got tired of dealing withe the broke dsm community LOL do your research! Since i do my own stuff just watch how keltalon does it LOL!

No one has ever stated that FWD trans are stronger than AWDs, they generally hold up a little better because the gears are taller and the torque isn't applied as much because there is tire spin, that's common sense man.

"Guess what you will not find one not by shep, buschur, tre, twick, jack, none of them quit being so narrow minded , this is the same mind set that has lead to the reason the dsm brand us dying out! "

Are you for real, those guys are narrow minded? Ok, so between those companies that have built 10s of thousand of trannies, don't you think if any one of them could have figured out a way to make their product better they would have done it? Right, this is the same moron logic that implies car companies really know how to get 100mpg but don't because they are in bed with the oil companies when well all know darn well that if a car company could get 50mpg out of a car they would do it instantly and sell a bazillion of those cars. DSMs are dying out because they are almost 30 year old cars.....it's called time moves on.

I'll be honest I've never heard of the WPC treatment, so I looked it up, I ended up at the same website of the stuff that you just posted above. It is nothing more than another shotpeening or polishing technique that reduces heat for road race cars, heat is not a problem with the DSM trans breaking. I want you to listen to what I say here, this is important, you can REM, WPC polish it, anneal, heat treat it, dip it in gold and cool it in cool whip, you can't change the material the gear is made of. The material it is made of is not very strong hence why we all break them. As stated earlier the gears break at the root, not at the tip also showing that case expansion is not a problem either or you would see the tips being sheared off.

Every heard the story of the fool that built his house upon the sand. You can have gold plated toilets, granite counter tops, Spanish flooring, but if the foundation is garbage your house is going to collapse.

You keep sighting your FWD as the proof, ok, how many pulls do you have on that thing doing 3 and 4th gear pulls at full boost and maximum HP and torque? Mileage and time mean nothing if you never floor or race it.

For the record I have broke 3 trans. 2nd gear once and two 3rd gears. All were on the street with low trans temps, all were done on street tires, none were launches, all broke while in the middle of the gears never between shifts, and they broke on single disc and twin disc clutches.

You are wasting your time, these treatments may increase your threshold as other have said ~10%, you need 100%. Tell you what, you give me one of your super sweet stock trans and I'll ship it back to you in 50 pulls or less in pieces guaranteed.
 
No one has ever stated that FWD trans are stronger than AWDs, they generally hold up a little better because the gears are taller and the torque isn't applied as much because there is tire spin, that's common sense man.

"

You keep sighting your FWD as the proof, ok, how many pulls do you have on that thing doing 3 and 4th gear pulls at full boost and maximum HP and torque? Mileage and time mean nothing if you never floor or race it.

For the record I have broke 3 trans. 2nd gear once and two 3rd gears. All were on the street with low trans temps, all were done on street tires, none were launches, all broke while in the middle of the gears never between shifts, and they broke on single disc and twin disc clutches.

You are wasting your time, these treatments may increase your threshold as other have said ~10%, you need 100%. Tell you what, you give me one of your super sweet stock trans and I'll ship it back to you in 50 pulls or less in pieces guaranteed.
No one has ever stated that FWD trans are stronger than AWDs, they generally hold up a little better because the gears are taller and the torque isn't applied as much because there is tire spin, that's common sense man.




You keep sighting your FWD as the proof, ok, how many pulls do you have on that thing doing 3 and 4th gear pulls at full boost and maximum HP and torque? Mileage and time mean nothing if you never floor or race it.



You are wasting your time, these treatments may increase your threshold as other have said ~10%, you need 100%. Tell you what, you give me one of your super sweet stock trans and I'll ship it back to you in 50 pulls or less in pieces guaranteed.
Evidently you haven't been around LOL I have 50 pulls on the dyno along . And better yet you totally ignored post #230 your mind is getting more narrow the more you post LOL. here is a 3rd gear pull at the track trapping 140mph, I made 20 passes alone on this particular day all passes topping out third gear boost was set low to stay within track rules and under 140mph threshold. the car has seen abuse like this on a norm but now the engine is going in the awd. browse my you tube channel you will see dyno pull after dyno pull track pull after track pull not to mention I drove the car daily averaging about 35,000 miles a year, wasting my time, dude you are hilarious.

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I have dyno after dyno of 4th gear pulls browse the channel.

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to show you just how strong the gears are after wpc treatment the quaife lsd snapped all the bolts off before the gear even though about breaking and you tell me you aren't narrow minded I am convinced wpc works!

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Here's a full boost pull on a local nascar testing track 4th gear and 5th gear pull. wpc all the way.

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pull after pull after pull

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the only other tranny failure I had was 3/4 hub slider never any gears recently upgraded to 1990 hub and have never looked back 3 years and still going strong LOL. Here is one of many quotes , I found them all over the internet I will just post this one concerning the awd tranny being stronger than a fwd tranny I been working on these cars since 2000 been on this forum giving advise since 2003 I have been around long enough to know how to make these car run reliably for sure.
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twicks69 DSM Wiseman
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twicks69, Mar 26, 2013 #8

You can take it to a machine shop and ask them to make a plug that will ensure no leaks from the transfer case shaft. The cost will depend on how much the machined shop will charge you.
Click to expand...
Just use a 45mm freeze plug and epoxy it in. Weld lower pinion gear in center diff housing, remove upper pinion gear, spider gears and cross shaft, remove viscous coupler, detent ball, snapring and output shaft.

Just be sure to use whatever front differential matches your axle splines.

Some of the AWD transmission gears and shafts available are stronger and there are more gear ratio options and 4 final drive options. The AWD transmission case is also stronger than the fwd.

Simply put, you can get a stronger 1/2 shift fork and 1/2, 3/4 shift rail assembly for use in the AWD trans while there are not some of these other options available at all for the fwd box.

Here's a throw back video to combat the hating pay special attention to the shot gun aimed at the transmission no fear though because its bullet proof;)

:argue:

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Whether you know it or not the cases are flexing. they don't have to fail, this cause the gears to spread therfore they are not catching the thick part of the gear leading to failure. As far as strengthening its the compression of the meatal that keep the crack from forming other words The crack never have a chance to get started! This way the core can do its job without a hidden weakness.


How much do you think they flex? .001? .005? It can't be much more than that, as that would result ina rupture of the aluminum. .005" has basically no effect on the tip loading. NONE!. In fact it might let it carry more torque with the same tooth bending stress.

I very well understand the premise behind compressive stress, but what you are failing to get is that when your way past the fatigue limit of the material, the inside doesn't care much about what's going on on the outside. Think of this kind of like a peppermint patty. You can deform the shit out of it without breaking the outer shell.
 
How much do you think they flex? .001? .005? It can't be much more than that, as that would result ina rupture of the aluminum. .005" has basically no effect on the tip loading. NONE!. In fact it might let it carry more torque with the same tooth bending stress.

I very well understand the premise behind compressive stress, but what you are failing to get is that when your way past the fatigue limit of the material, the inside doesn't care much about what's going on on the outside. Think of this kind of like a peppermint patty. You can deform the sh** out of it without breaking the outer shell.
Hey bastard I know you are a brite guy and probably think just as much as I do its like super man going against superman out of respect I will not debate you in the open forum just let me get the transmission in the car and lets see what she does. My doing this is not to win an argument its to see if I can bring something to the boards that will benefit some people. No matter what anyone says you already know keltalon will proceed, because I feel very confident about what I have accomplished and will yet accomplish. by the way This way the thread don't get cluttered with debating but what was done and how it held up or didn't hold up I'll keep it updated for sure with videos , pictures or whatever anyone what me to post. I am excited first of all to be putting the fwd setup in the awd this is going to be crazy;)

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Wpc stuff is back.
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Wpc stuff is back.
 

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Reading all this bullshit and bickering reminds me why nowadays 99% of DSMs making serious power are rocking auto boxes ROFL

We've all seen what a 700+hp AWD DSM can do to an OEM gear set (treated or not). If Kel runs his car like he has in the past, we'll soon see what it's capable of.
 
Reading all this bullshit and bickering reminds me why nowadays 99% of DSMs making serious power are rocking auto boxes ROFL

We've all seen what a 700+hp AWD DSM can do to an OEM gear set (treated or not). If Kel runs his car like he has in the past, we'll soon see what it's capable of.
it's more to it than just the gears I hate to be this way but only a few will know the rest of the combination. I still can't for the life of me understand why do people limit their goals on failures of others instead of learning from the failures of others to step ahead. When this thing is finished videos will be all over the place :beatentodeath:
 
Let the mans work give the results! I think he deserves that instead of bashing, let us all see what this turns out to be, be it good or bad I am sure he will let us know, right keltalon? I am just waiting for the end result and wish you the best!
 
it's more to it than just the gears I hate to be this way but only a few will know the rest of the combination. I still can't for the life of me understand why do people limit their goals on failures of others instead of learning from the failures of others to step ahead. When this thing is finished videos will be all over the place :beatentodeath:

No matter how you cut it, this gear set has limits just as any gear set does. My point was, we'll soon see what those limits are given the upgrades you've done to the box. I'm interested to see the results of your efforts. Good or bad, the outcome will be whatever you make of it. There's knowledge to be gained whether this thing flies apart or not.

There's no sense in saying this will hold x amount of power, just as there's no sense in saying this will blow up under x amount of power. Nobody here can accurately predict either of those events, so I'm not sure what all the pissing and moaning is about.

Put the damn thing together, see how it does, and post the results. The end.
 
Let the mans work give the results! I think he deserves that instead of bashing, let us all see what this turns out to be, be it good or bad I am sure he will let us know, right keltalon? I am just waiting for the end result and wish you the best!
I have always shared my good and bad experiences on these boards, fortunate to say I have had more good than bad LOL. Yeah I agree with you I am not new to the awd plateform it was my first dsm
No matter how you cut it, this gear set has limits just as any gear set does. My point was, we'll soon see what those limits are given the upgrades you've done to the box. I'm interested to see the results of your efforts. Good or bad, the outcome will be whatever you make of it. There's knowledge to be gained whether this thing flies apart or not.

There's no sense in saying this will hold x amount of power, just as there's no sense in saying this will blow up under x amount of power. Nobody here can accurately predict either of those events, so I'm not sure what all the pissing and moaning is about.

Put the damn thing together, see how it does, and post the results. The end.
Gotcha!! You know how these projects are sometimes LOL. Got the gears back yesterday, I haven't time to do anything trying to punch out a big project before the year end. We are under the gun, but when its over I will definitely get back to it for sure. I want to see how they hold up just like everyone else, wpc fwd made me a believer!;) Oh by the way I am no stranger to the awd dsm plateform
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/hey-look-what-happened-to-my-car.212148/#post-1767148
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Perhaps you mean no stranger to totaling them :|
Okay I see what you trying to do but if you want to battle we can keltalon loves to battle, keltalon is hardcore dsmer! LOL
 
Okay I see what you trying to do but if you want to battle we can keltalon loves to battle, keltalon is hardcore dsmer! LOL

I'm just giving you a hard time. Besides, anyone who continually refers to themselves in the third person is probably too much of a bad ass for me anyways ;)

Try to keep this new car in one piece, eh?
 
Me too man I started in 94 when I worked at the Mitsubishi dealer while in college before I transferred to Indiana University.i was there while the cars were new on the lot I work on daily I know a lot about everything on this platform now and I'm not going anywhere 20 more year s I still going to be hard core. I'll take the good and bad.
 
I'm just giving you a hard time. Besides, anyone who continually refers to themselves in the third person is probably too much of a bad ass for me anyways ;)

Try to keep this new car in one piece, eh?
I was saying to myself dag this my boy and he turning on me:idontknow:. Yeah man I don't mean anything harmful on these board just like trying to see if I can better my setup all the time :cool:
 
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